179 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Is anyone trying to claim these polls represent the entire gaming population? The OP said it only represents the forum.

[imnar]

i appreciate the op for doing the poll and the effort put into it...

[Realmzmaster]

Addai67 wrote...

Is anyone trying to claim these polls represent the entire gaming population? The OP said it only represents the forum.

No one is saying that the poll represents the entire DA2 gaming public. What is being said is that the poll could be bias in the way it is wordedand /or its coverage. The OP himself answered me and stated that it could have been worded better after I pointed out some of the inherent problems.

Other forum mates are saying that the poll is meaningless if it contains unintentional or intentional (which I doubt is the case) bias on the poster's part.

[stoicsentry2]

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

[In Exile]

erynnar wrote...
I am just curious did the new fans make up for the lost ones (which would make them break even) and give them more than the ones they lost on top of it. That is what I am curious about.

Given the sale #s, signs say no. But we don't know how succesful DA:O actually was in terms of securing fans, i.e. how many people who played DA:O would have purchased DA:O2 had it been released? Awakening had abysmal sales #s.

[Gloatie]

It is not the sample size, but selection bias which make this poll meaningless. Even as a representation of "the forum community," you have selection bias. To claim it is valid or interesting just because your percentage does not change over time, with increased numbers, does not eliminate selection bias, o Mr. Scientist. ;-)

[erynnar]

In Exile wrote...

erynnar wrote...
I am just curious did the new fans make up for the lost ones (which would make them break even) and give them more than the ones they lost on top of it. That is what I am curious about.

Given the sale #s, signs say no. But we don't know how succesful DA:O actually was in terms of securing fans, i.e. how many people who played DA:O would have purchased DA:O2 had it been released? Awakening had abysmal sales #s.

True, but Awakenings was an expansion, not a sequel. Don't expansions tend to not do was well? Unless they're ME maybe. ROFL!

[AngelicMachinery]

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

I don't think the "Call of Duty Crowd" really enjoy DA2,  there's no multiplayer.  Which is what the shooter crowd is truly based on.

[In Exile]

Gloatie wrote...

It is not the sample size, but selection bias which make this poll meaningless. Even as a representation of "the forum community," you have selection bias. To claim it is valid or interesting just because your percentage does not change over time, with increased numbers, does not eliminate selection bias, o Mr. Scientist. ;-)

But it does tell you how stable the forum population is, and if you can predict the skew, you can have an idea of how the data trends in a non-forum population.

[Macrake]

It's pretty bad when even on biowares own forum over 50% dislike the game. Time to do some serious thinking.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

I have a friend you plays Call of Duty quite a bit and he does NOT like Dragon Age II for it's "pandering to the Call of Duty crowd" and that is his exact quote.

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 09 juillet 2011 - 12:49 .

[In Exile]

Macrake wrote...

It's pretty bad when even on biowares own forum over 50% dislike the game. Time to do some serious thinking.

Bioware's own forum tends to be... not positive to Bioware releases lately. ME2 is not as well-received here.

[nightscrawl]

Oooo I didn't know about these, interesting results. I went and voted for you.

[stoicsentry2]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

I have a friend you plays Call of Duty quite a bit and he does NOT like Dragon Age II for it's "pandering to the Call of Duty crowd" and that is his exact quote.

Hmmmm.... interesting. So if DA2 doesn't have the RPG crowd OR the Call of Duty group, what groups are really enjoying it? 

It's not really debatable that the majority of people overall despise DA2, but there are some fans out there. I wonder what gaming group they are coming from?

[Cyberstrike nTo]

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

I have a friend you plays Call of Duty quite a bit and he does NOT like Dragon Age II for it's "pandering to the Call of Duty crowd" and that is his exact quote.

Hmmmm.... interesting. So if DA2 doesn't have the RPG crowd OR the Call of Duty group, what groups are really enjoying it? 

It's not really debatable that the majority of people overall despise DA2, but there are some fans out there. I wonder what gaming group they are coming from?

Causal or general gamers, like me, would like to have fun and be entertained would be my guess.
Now I like Dragon Age II I think a fun game with some flaws. Now what I think my friend meant was if he wants to play a FPS then he'll play FPS and the same with RPGs. I do know that he's looking forward to The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Mass Effect 3. 

Modifié par Cyberstrike nTo, 09 juillet 2011 - 07:45 .

[erynnar]

Cyberstrike nTo wrote...

stoicsentry2 wrote...

Unfortunately, the Call of Duty crowd hasn't signed in to vote. If they did, I'm sure DA2 would only be trailing DA:O by 20% or so.

I have a friend you plays Call of Duty quite a bit and he does NOT like Dragon Age II for it's "pandering to the Call of Duty crowd" and that is his exact quote.

Now this^ is what fascinates me. If BioWare was going for the crowds that don't play RPGs, what percentage of that audience did they grab? Were they enough to make up for the loss of the audience they had? And what does the audience they were striving for think of such a manuver?

The above is only one person, but I wonder if more felt or feel the same way? Insulting to the crowds they were trying to get, and insulting to the crowd they already had? Not good news if more of the CoD players felt the same way.

Also, the casual crowd tends to be just that, casual. They move on from one game to another.  Seems the RPG crowd hold on to their games more and replay them often. There was an article back in 2010 (dammit can't find it now) that mentioned this. The casual vs the group DAO brought in.

[Serpieri Nei]

CoD is one of my favorite games and I also play RPG's. When I want to play a FPS I don't look to Mass Effect nor do I look at DA. However, now when I want to play an RPG I run Witcher 2 or Origins, and definitely not DA2. I'd rather play God of War or Bayonette or Darksiders then play the sequel. So, Bioware really needs to decide what audience and what genre they want for Dragon age.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 09 juillet 2011 - 08:06 .

[Nerevar-as]

In Exile wrote...

Macrake wrote...

It's pretty bad when even on biowares own forum over 50% dislike the game. Time to do some serious thinking.

Bioware's own forum tends to be... not positive to Bioware releases lately. ME2 is not as well-received here.

ME2 negativity is nothing compared to DA2. Here the thing is rather one sided, and hasn´t settled down much in 4 months. In ME2 there were (are) far more defenders,and calmed sooner. And DA2 wasn´t well received in any forum I frequent. It´s not just BSN.

[Chuvvy]

Nerevar-as wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Macrake wrote...

It's pretty bad when even on biowares own forum over 50% dislike the game. Time to do some serious thinking.

Bioware's own forum tends to be... not positive to Bioware releases lately. ME2 is not as well-received here.

ME2 negativity is nothing compared to DA2. Here the thing is rather one sided, and hasn´t settled down much in 4 months. In ME2 there were (are) far more defenders,and calmed sooner. And DA2 wasn´t well received in any forum I frequent. It´s not just BSN.

Pretty much my experience as well.

[Addai]

erynnar wrote...
Now this^ is what fascinates me. If BioWare was going for the crowds that don't play RPGs, what percentage of that audience did they grab? Were they enough to make up for the loss of the audience they had? And what does the audience they were striving for think of such a manuver?

Maybe they were going after people who've only or mostly played JRPGs.  That makes more sense to me.

[Nick Fox]

Oh well we now know who the so called "loud minority" was then back a couple of months ago.
More seriously DA series is at the crossroads and my god I hope BW understands RPG are for RPG players and nobody else.
Who would've thought that ?

Had a bet with a few guys in apri on how many new players DA 2 would bring in compared to the ones they'd loose. Pretty safe to say I won that one.

[Ronin2006]

Addai67 wrote...

erynnar wrote...
Now this^ is what fascinates me. If BioWare was going for the crowds that don't play RPGs, what percentage of that audience did they grab? Were they enough to make up for the loss of the audience they had? And what does the audience they were striving for think of such a manuver?

Maybe they were going after people who've only or mostly played JRPGs.  That makes more sense to me.

It fascinates me how we hear how Bioware was going for another crowd including the God of War, FPS, and JRPG fans.  There's no doubt that they have taken elements from each of these genres in DA2, and taken out a lot of the more traditional parts of a western RPG.

I can only speak for myself personally, but I actually play across genres.  I like God of War, multiplayer COD (though I prefer offline with friends), and barring the last few instalments, quite enjoy the Final Fantasy series.

Yet despite this, I hated DA2, and just wished they stuck with what worked in DAO, and expanded upon that.  Taking bits and pieces of other genres just doesn't work in my opinion because the game ends up being a mess with a huge identity crisis, and rather than appealing to everyone they risk appealing to nobody.

[erynnar]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

erynnar wrote...
Now this^ is what fascinates me. If BioWare was going for the crowds that don't play RPGs, what percentage of that audience did they grab? Were they enough to make up for the loss of the audience they had? And what does the audience they were striving for think of such a manuver?

Maybe they were going after people who've only or mostly played JRPGs.  That makes more sense to me.

It fascinates me how we hear how Bioware was going for another crowd including the God of War, FPS, and JRPG fans.  There's no doubt that they have taken elements from each of these genres in DA2, and taken out a lot of the more traditional parts of a western RPG.

I can only speak for myself personally, but I actually play across genres.  I like God of War, multiplayer COD (though I prefer offline with friends), and barring the last few instalments, quite enjoy the Final Fantasy series.

Yet despite this, I hated DA2, and just wished they stuck with what worked in DAO, and expanded upon that.  Taking bits and pieces of other genres just doesn't work in my opinion because the game ends up being a mess with a huge identity crisis, and rather than appealing to everyone they risk appealing to nobody.

It was a mish mash. Tried to wear too many hats. Jack of all trades and master of none, as the saying goes.

[Ronin2006]

Nick Fox wrote...

Oh well we now know who the so called "loud minority" was then back a couple of months ago.
More seriously DA series is at the crossroads and my god I hope BW understands RPG are for RPG players and nobody else.
Who would've thought that ?

Had a bet with a few guys in apri on how many new players DA 2 would bring in compared to the ones they'd loose. Pretty safe to say I won that one.

Yeah, I remember very well how people who like this game have continually tried to rationalise the negative reaction to it by pointing to every possible outcome other than that maybe it was just plain bad, and overall, a huge step in the wrong direction.

From the "loud vocal minority" we heard at the beginning, to the "unable to handle innovation" and "unable to handle change", as well as "overreaction of personal preferences" (I'm sure Chris Hoban regrets that one)  We've heard things like "You're just upset that it's not DAO2, or BG3" as well as the idea that the game is a success because it would have cost less than DAO.  (I mean really?  You don't see any long term damage that can happen if you take this approach to business?)

I don't have anything against people who like this game, and I respect their difference of opinion, but some of them seem unwilling to accept that a huge number of people who bought this game feel differently.

Everywhere I've looked this game has been met with a fairly negative reaction, and it has only been the critical reviews that seem positive.  It's interesting to me how few critical reviews that are positive even mention the recycled maps.  I mean c'mon!  This is the most ridiculously obvious negative in the game; even the old mario games on the NES handled recycling better than this.  It was an unbelievably poorly executed part of the game.  One that is unforgivable in a big budget game, and if there was any objectivity in critical reviews, they should've AT LEAST been mentioned.

But it's not just this.  The metacritic user reviews have remained just over 4/10 on all three platforms.  We heard before how it was just the 4Chan users, and yet when I read the reviews, I see a lot of long and reasoned points from people who have given this game a poor review; not exactly a symptom of just 4Chan.

If I go to youtube, Gamespot or Gamefaqs I similarly see a lot of negativity about this game, and a lot of passionate and reasoned posts from people expressing their disappointment with DA2.

And on a local level, my cousin, as well as a friend of mine who both liked DAO have both decided not to buy DA2 after they played the demo, and rented it respectively.  They both feel that it was a change in the wrong direction.

Also, my gf's friend works at the local JB Hi FI (the largest electronics retailer in Australia), and he has stated that they have received more complaints about DA2 than any other game they have ever sold.

Yeah, I know I've dragged it on a bit, but I really hope Bioware's public reactions and statements are just a front to try to sell more DLC and keep the selling cycle going and that behind the scenes they are taking a good honest look at themselves and the direction they want to take this franchise.