661 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

A question for you Zulu.  How many colonists do you believe are needed to make a viable Colony?

4.

1, actually: a pregnant woman with a male embryo.

[Almostfaceman]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

"What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Roger that,10-4 base clear!

[Legbiter]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

I would sooner die, and my friends and family with me, than to submit to some machine-god who intends to change us into one of them for all eternity...

Preach it!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I'm not the person who said I'd kill billions of people!

If that's true then why do you support blowing up the Earth?

I expliclty do not. I have said so several times in this thread! I never stop saying it! I said it twice in the past five pages! 

Here is how I am approaching this thread: assume the earth is destroyed. What now? It is a fun question. I'm assuming that nothing I could have done, Paragon or Renegade, could possibly have saved the earth. If that is the case, then giving up and saying "Well, time to die out quietly!" seems immensely lazy.

That is the premise of this thread: that is the central thesis we are all supposed to be working off of - if the earth WERE destroyed, what would we do?

Saphra Deden wrote...
We either come out of this on top or nobody comes out of it at all. I won't throw away all of our potential for greatness just to save a bunch of alien ingrates. If we can't save the Earth the logical course of action is to submit to the Reapers. We'll live on, just in a different form.

This is where we disagree. I believe that humanity is strong enough, great enough, relevant enough to come back from a near defeat. You think we'd be better off surrendering and becoming slave monsters.

[Dave666]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

A question for you Zulu.  How many colonists do you believe are needed to make a viable Colony?

4.

1, actually: a pregnant woman with a male embryo.

Ah yes, incest, a game the whole familly can enjoy.

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Tell that to the Monguls! 

You mean the people who conquered half the globe? If you're gonna quote history at me at least take the time to learn it.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Ewwww.  Eh, I'd rather fall on my
sword than become a Reaper.  Then again I kinda agree with the samurai
that it's the ultimate dishonor to face defeat in battle on the enemies
terms.

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

I would sooner die, and my friends and family with me, than to submit to some machine-god...

You
see, this kind of self-centered thinking is what I'm fighting against.
This isn't about you, this is about the human species. For the
greater good individuals must be sacrificed.

Speaking of "self" it becomes painfully obvious looking at the Collectors that after the Reapers were done with them they lost all sense of self.

[piemanz]

omgodzilla wrote...

Lets assume that ME3 has two discs. The end of disc one would probably include a major story mission similiar to Horizon. In ME3, that mission could be an attempt to take back Earth with the help of all the forces you gathered. It could be a 2 hour long mission that takes you all over Earth but your assault ends up going horribly wrong. The fleet that you gathered ends up getting its ass kicked. In the end, you are forced to retreat and the Reapers go back to their extermination of Earth or whatever.

Then in disc 2, you try and find another way to take them all out. Your fleet took heavy losses but is still quite large. Things get extremely tense as you struggle on your mission. Then near the end of the game we get hit with the news that the Reapers have wiped out all of the 11 billion people that were on Earth. This is where everything gets super depressing and everyone ****s their pants. Along with Earth, several human colonies begin to get wiped out as well.

It doesn't have to go like this but what if Earth dies no matter what you do? Would it ruin the game for you or make things more interesting? Personally, I would love this. Mass Effect has a knack for making humans look like the top dogs in everything, I would love it if humans get their asses kicked to the point where they become the most pathetic species in existence or atleast somewhere close to that.

It would certainly make things intresting for the ME universe in general.I obviously wouldn't be 'happy' about it but it wouldn't kill the game for me either.

As long as the reaper threat has been killed off, the galaxy saved and at least some human colonies remained i would be satisfied, i think.

[Sajuro]

Saphra Deden wrote...
We either come out of this on top or nobody comes out of it at all. I won't throw away all of our potential for greatness just to save a bunch of alien ingrates. If we can't save the Earth the logical course of action is to submit to the Reapers. We'll live on, just in a different form.

So if we can't save earth, we might as well say '**** humanity' and submit to the Reapers in hopes they reaperfy us instead of turning us into the new collectors for destroying their old workforce?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Tell that to the Monguls! [/quote]

You mean the people who conquered half the globe? If you're gonna quote history at me at least take the time to learn it.[/quote][/quote]

Yes, but where are they NOW? Their culture is basically non-existant, their history a joke. Polish culture has more relevance on today's world stage than the monguls, and they've never been a big tough dog. They've been an anemic weasel pretty much forever.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 avril 2011 - 01:38 .

[Legbiter]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You see, this kind of self-centered thinking is what I'm fighting against. This isn't about you, this is about the human species. For the greater good individuals must be sacrificed.

His sentiment still has that je ne sais quoi I say.

You heartless renegade!

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Yes, they did lose their sense of self because individuals ceased to be relevant. The collective consciousness of our species would be incorporated into a Reaper.

We can't risk losing the Earth because if Earth falls there may not be enough humans left to make a Reaper, which might mean total extinction instead of Reaper-dom.

Um, you have no proof that we'll become a "collective conciousness" within a Reaper.  All we have in that regard is "their word".  And the Collectors - according to Mordin - aren't even concious - they're husks run by Reaper tech.

Yes, I'll still be falling on my sword.

[Gentleman Moogle]

Saphra Deden wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Tell that to the Monguls! 

You mean the people who conquered half the globe? If you're gonna quote history at me at least take the time to learn it.

Almostfaceman wrote...

Ewwww.  Eh, I'd rather fall on my
sword than become a Reaper.  Then again I kinda agree with the samurai
that it's the ultimate dishonor to face defeat in battle on the enemies
terms.

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

I would sooner die, and my friends and family with me, than to submit to some machine-god...

You
see, this kind of self-centered thinking is what I'm fighting against.
This isn't about you, this is about the human species. For the
greater good individuals must be sacrificed.

Alright then, let's wax philosophical. Who decides what is the greater good? You? I sincerely hope not, since you seem intent on flinging our species into a cosmic garbage disposal. Me? Them? Some nebulous otherworldly "they" that you can refer to without the need to produce hard numbers?

How many tragedies have ocurred because of "the greater good." Would you have recommended we as Americans meekly bow our heads to the encroaching british, a force far stronger, far more numerous, far more experienced and better equipped than our own citizen soldiers, because the cost of freedom may have been too great?

Would you have counciled Russia bend the knee to the approaching German tanks in World War 2? The loss of life for that country was staggering, with bodies literally piling chest high as the sons of russia flung themselves at the german invaders. Would you have cried "peace, peace at all costs", and damned europe to slavery under the Third Reich, to avoid the millions of deaths that ensued?

"The greater good" is a nice word phrase. It allows you to voice a controversial opinion, and then back it up with some imagined majority behind you. But who are you to say what the greater good is? Is the greater good continuance as a species, even though we will cease to be "human" and instead be "reaper", doomed to do nothing but 'exist', while damning future races to our very fate? Or is the greater good standing up and fighting, even to our last breath as a species, against these merciless creatures who have decided that ours is a race that must end according to their whims?

Either way, our race ceases to exist as "human." In your way, we feed the crocodile and eventually become him. In my way, we die with our heads held high, knowing that while our impact may have been small, we denied the Reapers another soldier, and may even cause enough damage to give future races a fighting chance. 

So you tell me. Which way is "better."

[sympathy4saren]

What is "the greater good"? And how is it achieved without...

A. Stealing
B. Controlling one's mind
C. Generally raping individual liberty

Because when someone talks about submitting for the "collective good", that's basically telling me freedom is being ravaged.

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 07 avril 2011 - 01:46 .

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Um, you have no proof that we'll become a "collective conciousness" within a Reaper.  All we have in that regard is "their word".  And the Collectors - according to Mordin - aren't even concious - they're husks run by Reaper tech.

Yes, I'll still be falling on my sword.

We know from Legon and Sovereign what Reapers are. We know from the Collector base that the Reapes wish to make us into one. They do not plan to make us merely into Collectors.

No one - not even Legion -knows what "being a Reaper" is.  To suggest taking a leap into the great unknown and lose all racial identity is selfish - is silly.  And you have no idea who is going to be goo and who is going to be the next Collector.  Not that either one is viable.

[Almostfaceman]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Gentleman Moogle wrote...
Alright then, let's wax philosophical. Who decides what is the greater good? You? I sincerely hope not, since you seem intent on flinging our species into a cosmic garbage disposal.

It's better than total and utter extinction which is what you have in mind. As a Reaper our species will still exist and will still exert its will upon the universe. All you are offering is death.

We will be totally and utterly extinct.  Humans will be gone.  Only Reapers will remain.

[Legbiter]

Gentleman Moogle wrote...

Alright then, let's wax philosophical. Who decides what is the greater good? You? I sincerely hope not, since you seem intent on flinging our species into a cosmic garbage disposal. Me? Them? Some nebulous otherworldly "they" that you can refer to without the need to produce hard numbers?

How many tragedies have ocurred because of "the greater good." Would you have recommended we as Americans meekly bow our heads to the encroaching british, a force far stronger, far more numerous, far more experienced and better equipped than our own citizen soldiers, because the cost of freedom may have been too great?

Would you have counciled Russia bend the knee to the approaching German tanks in World War 2? The loss of life for that country was staggering, with bodies literally piling chest high as the sons of russia flung themselves at the german invaders. Would you have cried "peace, peace at all costs", and damned europe to slavery under the Third Reich, to avoid the millions of deaths that ensued?

"The greater good" is a nice word phrase. It allows you to voice a controversial opinion, and then back it up with some imagined majority behind you. But who are you to say what the greater good is? Is the greater good continuance as a species, even though we will cease to be "human" and instead be "reaper", doomed to do nothing but 'exist', while damning future races to our very fate? Or is the greater good standing up and fighting, even to our last breath as a species, against these merciless creatures who have decided that ours is a race that must end according to their whims?

Either way, our race ceases to exist as "human." In your way, we feed the crocodile and eventually become him. In my way, we die with our heads held high, knowing that while our impact may have been small, we denied the Reapers another soldier, and may even cause enough damage to give future races a fighting chance. 

So you tell me. Which way is "better."

Lame.

You want to derail the thread into general Americana ****** start a thread in Off-Topic.

[Malanek]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Thee populations of those worlds range from as high as 5.3million (Bekenstein) to as low as a few as couple of hundred people.

Joab is listed in the wiki with a population of 21,553,000. Mistake or not? You can visit that in ME2 to check. Arvuna is listed at 348,785,500 but marked as information that was from a pre-released version of ME1 so that one is almost certainly not cannon. However many of the colonies do not have a population listed. Demeter sounds like the biggest, where is your information coming from sayiong this is less than 5.3 million?

[Sajuro]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Um, you have no proof that we'll become a "collective conciousness" within a Reaper.  All we have in that regard is "their word".  And the Collectors - according to Mordin - aren't even concious - they're husks run by Reaper tech.

Yes, I'll still be falling on my sword.

We know from Legon and Sovereign what Reapers are. We know from the Collector base that the Reapes wish to make us into one. They do not plan to make us merely into Collectors.

Is becoming a giant death machine really any better? The reapers are a dead end in terms of evolution, culture, technology. We don't know anything about the races that had been 'uplifted' other than the fact that they now get to participate in the galactic cycle of genocide.
Sorry, but if it was a choice between being wiped out and 'surviving' as Reapers I would rather Humanity be wiped out.