94 réponses à ce sujet

[Carfax]

Simple quesiton, how explicit/realistic do you think sex and romance should be portrayed in modern day games?  A lot of people had issues with Bioware's implementation of sex and romance in their games.  Even though sex and romance are crucial aspects of our lives, the love scenes in the DA and ME series were treated with a mild neglect and indifference, which in the end made them very awkward; at least to me..  DAO was definitely the worst.  I practically cringed when my PC first made love to Morrigan

Anyway, I understand that the romance subplots in Bioware's games are just that....sub plots, and do not constitute a main factor..  But if you're going to include them, one should do them to the utmost of your ability, and not half **** them by using cheap cop outs like loin cloths.

With that said, the Witcher 2 looks like they will be going all out with the portrayal of Geralt and Triss's love for each other.  Here's a leaked screenshot showing Triss and Geralt entwined:

[inappropriate image removed]

I doubt they will show full nudity, but it certainly looks like they aren't trying to hide much either.....which is a good thing.  Because if a game has an M rating, I would expect there to be a bit of nudity.

Bioware's games on the other hand might be viewed differently if they showed the amount of nudity thats in the Witcher 2 seeing as homosexual relationships are present in their games, which can be very upsetting to large numbers of people.

Modifié par Carfax, 05 avril 2011 - 11:45 .

[Seagloom]

You may want to remove that image link. I think it crosses site rule boundaries.

I think the portrayal of sex only needs to be as graphic as a story requires it to be. Personally, I thought Origins overshot matters. Having a passionate kiss and fading to black is sufficient under most circumstances. Showing a lovemaking scene is only worthwhile if doing so somehow strengthens the overall narrative by revealing something about the involved characters.

It might be argued Origins did just that. Alistair's lovemaking scene is more vanilla than Zevran's, which subtly underscores their differences in sexual experience. On the other hand, we already had this information from simply conversing with the characters. Reinforcing it in a love scene was not strictly necessary. The approach Mass Effect took was more tasteful, but also told me less about the characters involved. In a way it felt more superfluous. Mere eye candy to enhance the Hollywood approach to storytelling was all I took from it. Still, it must said the portrayal had was not as clumsy as how Origins handled it.

I think Jade Empire did it best. My heroine kissed Sky or Silk Fox, there was epic music, and then a fade to black. When I next saw my character she was being roused out of sleep by an impending attack. It was obvious the characters slept together. I did not need it spelled out for me. Although if you romance Dawn Star as a Closed Fist character, the game *does* spell it out for you as Dawn Star remarks that what occurred last night will never happen again after your character binds dissenting party members.

Sex is something that needs to be treated delicately and purposefully or it comes across as base titillation. That is fine if titillation is the goal, but I expect more from stories, and by extension, story driven games. Considering how clumsily romance is general is handled, however, I hold low hopes about the handling of sex in games in the near future.

[Carfax]

Seagloom wrote...

You may want to remove that image link. I think it crosses site rule boundaries.

If the mods have a problem with the link, they can remove it themselves.  It's no worse than screenshots of Zevran doing a reverse "cowgirl" on the Warden..

I think the portrayal of sex only needs to be as graphic as a story requires it to be. Personally, I thought Origins overshot matters. Having a passionate kiss and fading to black is sufficient under most circumstances. Showing a lovemaking scene is only worthwhile if doing so somehow strengthens the overall narrative by revealing something about the involved characters.

I agree with this, that it really depends on the game/story.  For example, Bioware's games tend to have multiple romances that vary according to one's gender, orientation and even race.. 

In the Witcher on the other hand, you could only pursue a relationship with 2 characters, which means the writers can really focus on increasing the quality of the romances..

Although I haven't played the Witcher 2, I really like the direction they are going with the romance between Geralt and Triss.  Looking at the screenshots, they really have some great animations and artwork that manage to convey some emotions. 

I think Jade Empire did it best. My heroine kissed Sky or Silk Fox, there was epic music, and then a fade to black. When I next saw my character she was being roused out of sleep by an impending attack. It was obvious the characters slept together. I did not need it spelled out for me. Although if you romance Dawn Star as a Closed Fist character, the game *does* spell it out for you as Dawn Star remarks that what occurred last night will never happen again after your character binds dissenting party members.

Jade Empire is one of the few Bioware games that I missed.  Did it even come out on PC?

Sex is something that needs to be treated delicately and purposefully or it comes across as base titillation. That is fine if titillation is the goal, but I expect more from stories, and by extension, story driven games. Considering how clumsily romance is general is handled, however, I hold low hopes about the handling of sex in games in the near future.

And this is the typical North American irony which I've so come to scorn.  It's OK to depict all sorts of violence in video games, but when it comes to sex, it must be handled with kiddy gloves.....even if the game is M rated!

Dragon Age 2 has exploding bodies and gouts of blood, but show a bit of skin and it's the end of the World!

[Dannybare]

I think after how much contreversy Mass effect got, I think Biowares going to be more cautious while making romance/sex scenes from now on. Shame really it was funny seeing people complaogn about something in a game they haven't even played.

[Fidget6]

 I think the Mass Effect 1 love scenes for the most part were pretty good. Maybe just a tad more expilict and passionate than those and I think that'd be about ideal. I wouldn't want them to get too terribly explicit because then it would be hard to take the rest of the game seriously. I've read some otherwise outstanding novels with love scenes treated as if they were written by a horny twelve year old and it just made it hard to take the rest of the beautifully written books seriously, I think in my games it would be the same way. I wouldn't even mind full nudity if it was done in a tasteful way.

[Seagloom]

Carfax wrote...

If the mods have a problem with the link, they can remove it themselves. It's no worse than screenshots of Zevran doing a reverse "cowgirl" on the Warden..

It appears they already did. That is not comparable, as part of Triss's breast was exposed. Nudity is nothing to get worked up over in my opinion, but the site rules are quite specific in that nudity is verboten.

Carfax wrote...

Jade Empire is one of the few Bioware games that I missed. Did it even come out on PC?

Yes. You can find it easily enough on Steam for cheap. I think Direct2Drive may have it too.

Carfax wrote...

And this is the typical North American irony which I've so come to scorn. It's OK to depict all sorts of violence in video games, but when it comes to sex, it must be handled with kiddy gloves.....even if the game is M rated! Dragon Age 2 has exploding bodies and gouts of blood, but show a bit of skin and it's the end of the World!

Did I ever mention it was okay to depict scenes of ultraviolence? I do not believe I did. I stated that sex scenes need to serve a narrative purpose. Violence is another topic entirely. Succinctly stated, most of that is unnecessary too. BioWare games are chock full of filler content that often take the form of mindless combat. Not that they are alone in that approach to level design.

This topic was about sex and romance, however; and I am a big believer that it has no value in a story unless it helps to drive it forward, or provide further insight into characters. Without that it is at best, a perfunctory addition to a tale. At worst, it is shameless pandering.

Modifié par Seagloom, 06 avril 2011 - 12:16 .

[KenKenpachi]

I have no problem with it if its in the story and not overboard. If parents are worried about little Jimmy seeing some skin in a M rated game, well...M is for Mature. I say we enforce the laws we have, if you buy beer or cigs for someone who's underage you can be fined or even arrested so why not the same with games? Rather than trying to regulate it more, here's an Idea....enforce the rules you already have?

But that being said it should be in a context and not just thrown in because we can, such as RDR walking in on a mexican woman being screwed on a table....that was just odd.

[Volus Warlord]

If I wanted to see that stuff I'd watch a porno.

I'm playing action games for action, in the maliciously violent sense.

Trying to stack a game with sex scenes will not compensate for its core value- the violence.

[A Killing Sound]

If your game or characters has a romance that will eventually lead to intercourse, go big or go home.

Modifié par A Killing Sound, 06 avril 2011 - 02:35 .

[Godak]

"Simple question, how explicit/realistic do you think sex and romance should be portrayed in modern day games?"

However much effort the developers deem necessary to properly convey what they want to convey, I suppose. Realism and effort probably have a pretty strong positive correlation, so...

Anyway, if they feel that a high-five would sufficiently show that your character is in love with another character, then so be it.

PS: No Dragon Age: Origins dry humping. EVER. AGAIN.

Modifié par Godak, 06 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[Chuvvy]

I'm fine with nudity. There's nudity in PG-13 movies and it's real. Why can't an M rated game have fake nudity? Double standards ****** me off. Bioware isn't helping mature the industry by doing fully clothed kissing scenes. And I'm not saying it needs to show full penetration or anything like that, I want M rated games to be able to show the same stuff an R rated movie would be able to.

[Blood-Lord Thanatos]

Sex scenes are fine if they are done the right way. what is the right way should up to the devs to decide.

[Leinadi]

Somehow, the context of the game and the romances means a lot. For example, I have a very hard time taking Bioware romances seriously. But I think it's due to the fact that they are actually trying to portray a real romance... That is admirable I find, but it's just... I don't know what exactly it is but for some reason they really rub me the wrong way and cross the line into being creepy. The sex-scenes as well, something about them just makes me want to look away.

I think my favorite RPG "romances" might be Alpha Protocol's actually. Not because they had extraordinary depth (they certainly didn't) but I felt they almost completely nailed how they should feel within the context of that particular game/genre. I found the little talk with Madison at the bed to be unexpectedly sweet and it gave Mike some fantastic character as well. Mina's was also good. Again, they're more like romantic encounters, born out of the situations the characters are in. I rather liked that.

And I think my fav "sex scene" goes to SIE. It was hilarious, it was fiery, it was sexy and well done overall. Making that whole scene work as well as it does is pretty impressive I think, given how wonderfully absurd it is.

But anyways, as far as the sheer portrayal of sex. I'm pretty happy with some suggestive talk and then having a fade to black. More drawn out love scenes, where you simply watch two people go at it, does very little for me.

[1000questions]

both are far less in videogames especially keeping in mind the ratings of 18+ or mature. We see them alot more in other mediums of entertainment. Videogames need to step up a bit, that being said they should not feel being forced upon

[Tazzmission]

the only game i can recall that had full frontal nudity was the god of war in that little mini game. im not saying nudity is needed but im also not saying i dont want it either. if a developer can somehow make the nudity more r rated than i dont see a problem with it at all. now if it was nc-17 or close to the stuff you see on hbo than imo thats to much for my taste. i may love ass and ****** but for a video game i find it just bleh

[Caladors]

Sex and love are two different things.
I am going to out myself and just say watching my sex scene as realistic.
I am more likely to die of embarrassment than I am to be thinking "this is a realistic portrait of sex"
Not that I don’t like it don’t get me wrong but realism and fiction well times they don’t meld well.
Ever read a romantic novel where someone farted in the middle of sex?
Or got embarrassed about the noises being made, complaints about being on someone hair or that you need to shave or just let it grow, stubble is annoying?

Well it’s all there.
It’s all real.
But do you real want it in a game or a movie?
Not really.


This staring up at me with the sounds of heavy breath and then him saying “I love you.”
Or a woman.
(I would prefer a woman but it was a quick search)
That would do for a ‘sex scene’ for me.
Meril’s after bed talk is much better than any graphic scene I have seen elsewhere.

Sure I liked the mass effect scenes.
They were alot more... without use of a better word.
Erotic.
But that’s a steamy on ship romance with bottle up emotions, alot of glad to be alive in there.
Where as the story of dragon age is much more paced, dragon age two over those year or even mass effect two where you know what your walking into.

Each of those are very different moment.

The only thing I care about is integrity.
At the end of the scene do you feel cheated?
Or do you feel you know this person better.
Does the moment seem genuine to you.

That’s all that matters in my opinion.

[Moondoggie]

I love how the OP puts sex and romance in the same sentance like they are somehow the same thing. They are not. Romance in games does not exist it is replaced by mostly simple fantasies and just picking the flirt option to get a sort of sex scene. Personally i don't give a darn how naked the characters are when they have their steamy or unstemy as it were sex scene. If you want to see that kinda thing just check out some porn. Let video games be video games and not some depraved sex game where you bed lots of computer animated females to see them naked (Wait wasn't that The Witcher? xD)

While they improved the whole romance thing in DA2 somewhat with not all characters being interested in the PC and some falling in love with other people it felt more realistic than the terrible herem mentality of some past games. I still thing there is a way to go before there is real romance in video game storytelling because too many people want to pull developers back to the brainless herem of girls squabbling over the PC.

[FlintlockJazz]

No sex please I'm British.

Seriously though, as long as it's tastefully done and is appropriate then I have no problem with it. Unfortunately most romance in games is pretty much of the quality of teen fanfic, for which Bioware particularly guilty of though that's partly because they actually do put romance options in their games.

[Deathwurm]

I kind of see similarities to the way Sex and Romance has been handled by the Comic Industry.
There was a time when anything like that in Comics were mostly cheap plot devices, but then the Industry began to mature, the writing became more refined and better fiction and romantic relationships began to become deeper.
I think (good) Gaming is right on that edge and it will be just a few more Major Properties before we begin seeing a lot more depth.
Just my opinion.

[Carfax]

Moondoggie wrote...

I love how the OP puts sex and romance in the same sentance like they are somehow the same thing. They are not. Romance in games does not exist it is replaced by mostly simple fantasies and just picking the flirt option to get a sort of sex scene.

Yeah, because sex AND romance really means sex = romance 

If you're going to be critical, at least try to be coherent.  I'm well aware that sex and romance aren't the same thing, but usually, the two often tend to lead into one another.

Personally i don't give a darn how naked the characters are when they have their steamy or unstemy as it were sex scene. If you want to see that kinda thing just check out some porn. Let video games be video games and not some depraved sex game where you bed lots of computer animated females to see them naked (Wait wasn't that The Witcher? xD)

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, "video games" these days can have profanity, excessive violence, racism, homosexuality etc and other mature topics.

So basically, if a video game can include the above for added immersion and realism, then why shouldn't they include more realistic depictions of sex and romance?

Unless you yourself have some personal issues with nudity and sexual displays, your arguement doesn't really make much sense.

[Milana_Saros]

Carfax wrote...

With that said, the Witcher 2 looks like they will be going all out with the portrayal of Geralt and Triss's love for each other.

Can't help but nitpick here...love and sex aren't the same thing. One is an extension of the other but shoving it to the players face all the time doesn't really serve a clear purpose.

I don't mind sex scenes and I really enjoyed Witcher 1 altough I see no clear purpose for the sex cards. Especially considering that you are fixed on a male protagonist. Going "all out" on the sexiness and including nipples and sausages and whatnot is in my eyes, not needed. I'm totally fine with Bioware's sex scenes, especially ME1 one was really well done.

Because if a game has an M rating, I would expect there to be a bit of nudity.

Ehhhh....yeah well, I highly doubt that the amount of people under the age of 16 (M rating = age of 18 in Finland btw) on both ME and DA forums is very small. Ratings are there but people hardly follow them. Then again, for under aged kids, it's the parents responsibilty to check their kids' games. Still, it's kinda brave to put something so easily related to pornography into a product that is so easily availabe.

But of course, the situation being, that none of us have played Witcher 2 yet. We really don't know what they show and what they don't so it's kinda hard to judge based on a screenshot...

Bioware's games on the other hand might be viewed differently if they showed the amount of nudity thats in the Witcher 2 seeing as homosexual relationships are present in their games, which can be very upsetting to large numbers of people.

Yeah people seem to be upset about homosexuality in DA2. Which is totally mindboggling to me. I don't see how heterosexual nudity is any different from homosexual nudity. It's just simply nudity. Talk about close-mindedness.

This topic was earlier discussed in DA2 forums and what amused me the most was that people were actually comparing the quality of these 2 games based on the sex scenes.  And if you don't want nipples shoved to your face while trying to enjoy a COMPUTER GAME, then you are a prude.

There's always the option to press ESC during the scenes (hopefully) but riding on sexual content is just...a tad tasteless. I certainly hope that this is just an image created by the hyping fans and not the actual direction of the game.

Modifié par Milana_Saros, 08 avril 2011 - 01:07 .

[Godak]

Milana_Saros wrote...

 I don't see how heterosexual nudity is any different from homosexual nudity. It's just simply nudity. Talk about close-mindedness.

I don't think it's just the nudity that's making them uncomfortable.

[Milana_Saros]

Godak wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

 I don't see how heterosexual nudity is any different from homosexual nudity. It's just simply nudity. Talk about close-mindedness.

I don't think it's just the nudity that's making them uncomfortable.

Then what? Two people flirting with each other? Two people getting together cos' they like each other? What? See how I used the word "people".

[Godak]

Milana_Saros wrote...

Then what? Two people flirting with each other? Two people getting together cos' they like each other? What? See how I used the word "people".

There are people who simply disapprove of homosexual relationships,
period. There are probably several reasons why (ranging from religious
reasons to homophobia). Sure, some are probably like "Oh no! Nudity! My
innocence has been taken from me!", but I think that's a small number.

Surely Finland isn't totally void of all hate? I mean, I know it's a pretty cool place, but...