263 réponses à ce sujet

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Jack-Nader wrote...

Saw your video grumpy. You play strange

I would have oppened with chain lightning and then dropped inferno on them while they were stunned.  This locks them down completely.  The bulk of them will spend the next 10 seconds doddering around inside the blast radius.  If they chase you like they were doing in the video it would be ok to cast cone of cold for the secondary slow effect which still applies even if it does no damage vs the slavers.  You could have taken advantage of their slowed state to drop inferno on them also.

Sorry, I'm going full elemental first with this mage because that is what all the fanbois say make you godly. Therefore this mage does not yet have lightning. I did cast Cone of Cold several times. You did not notice them being frozen solid at times?

I'd really like to see some videos from you instead of just theorycraft.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 08 avril 2011 - 07:45 .

[Jack-Nader]

What program do people use these days to capture video???

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

FRAPS (the version you buy) is what I use. I use AUTOGK to process the video so it is not so big.

HD 720P Video's on YouTube

[ezrafetch]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Sorry, I'm going full elemental first with this mage because that is what all the fanbois say make you godly. Therefore this mage does not yet have lightning. I did cast Cone of Cold several times. You did not notice them being frozen solid at times?

I'd really like to see some videos from you instead of just theorycraft.

You didn't grab Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction and Rock Armor?  I think Elemental is a sick tree, but to leave home without Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction seems...odd.  It's by far the earliest use of CCCs for good effect.  Getting the rest of the Primal tree can wait while you finish Elemental, but Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction is a worthwhile two point investment early on.  Even if only as a backup CCC while having Merrill/Anders be your primary Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction exploiter, it's still worth it.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 08 avril 2011 - 08:50 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

ezrafetch wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Sorry, I'm going full elemental first with this mage because that is what all the fanbois say make you godly. Therefore this mage does not yet have lightning. I did cast Cone of Cold several times. You did not notice them being frozen solid at times?

I'd really like to see some videos from you instead of just theorycraft.

You didn't grab Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction and Rock Armor?  I think Elemental is a sick tree, but to leave home without Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction seems...odd.  It's by far the earliest use of CCCs for good effect.  Getting the rest of the Primal tree can wait while you finish Elemental, but Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction is a worthwhile two point investment early on.  Even if only as a backup CCC while having Merrill/Anders be your primary Chain Lightning + Chain Reaction exploiter, it's still worth it.

NO, I already explained why.  I did pick up Rock Armor, as you would see if you watched the videos. This IS an ELEMENTALIST MAGE topic according to the thread heading.

My first mage did pick up chain lightning first and the fanbois claimed if I have just gone elemental first the mage would be an unstopable wrecking ball killing faster than warriors. Of course I KNOW this is not going to be the case, but I'm humoring them, especially since they caln't produce videos to show this is indeed the case.

I invite any and all to produce their videos. See, I'm trying to prove myself wrong. I'm trying to prove mages can kill as fast (some fanbois say faster) than warriors. That is a hard row to hoe if you watch the warrior videos and have actually played a mage Hawke.

[rumination888]

You need to be level 10 to pick up Elemental Mastery. Why would you not pick up Chain Lightning + CCC inbetween?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

rumination888 wrote...

You need to be level 10 to pick up Elemental Mastery. Why would you not pick up Chain Lightning + CCC inbetween?

To get a little crowd control in the form of Winter's Blast/ Deep Freeze.

Well, here is my level 9 elementalist in the final battle to take Denarius's mansion. Woot!!! One more level to godhood!!!! (according to some.) Anyways, the below video is considerably shorter than the previous two. The Arcane Horror will go down very fast with Frost Runes equipped on your party. Then run to a place where you can't be surronded as easily.

Click

So far my best weapon has not been Firestorm or Cone of Cold but my Nikes.

[Lumikki]

Elemental mages means you take the "Elemental mastery". It doesn't mean you can't also take good spells from other spell trees.

[Jack-Nader]

Here you go grumpy

Hope this works.  I used the identical battle you first posted to show you the difference.  Note that I am also only level 7.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 09 avril 2011 - 06:12 .

[rumination888]

Jack-Nader wrote...

Here you go grumpy

Hope this works.  I used the identical battle you first posted to show you the difference.  Note that I am also only level 7.

Nice Firestorm
"No fear" should be the motto of all Elementalists.

[Roxlimn]

Jack-Nader:

I second your comment on GOW's play. His Fireball hits all of three (!) targets and his Firestorm hits maybe one. I must say that I was actually surprised that Firestorm could miss that badly. It's a strange way to aim AoE effects.

I generally also like to pin my targets down so that the casting animation doesn't screw up the targeting. Chain Lightning works for low levels, but once Chain Reaction comes in, I prefer to use Fist of the Maker for that purpose, so as not to waste the CCC. Pull + Fist draws them in and pins them down for massive AoE ownage.

[Bfler]

If you don't micro your members properly the own elemental mages are the greatest threat to the party on nightmare. One false blast can almost wipe the entire party.

Modifié par Bfler, 09 avril 2011 - 07:32 .

[Joy Divison]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Post your videos. Because so far I call BS about anyone claiming Hawke mage can consistantlly kill as fast as Warrior Hawke. All you have to do is look at the countless videos of warriors and rouges and note the decided absense of mage threads claiming to dominate Nightmare. Again, just a portion of one battle does not cut it.

On my first mage I had Anders as the full elementalist and my mage was full pirmal + cold + other stuff. But to make absolutely sure no one can spout claims about "well, if only your mage was full elemental he would be a god putting the warriors to shame" I am going full elemenatal first on this mage (my fourth.)

Oh, I have certainly found that when you run your Hawke mage up close enough to cast Firestorm the enemies are not so easy to catch in it. As a hint, if you want to catch them in the firestorm you will often need to use glyph of paralysis or gravimetric ring, ect.

I eagerly await your videos showing what an awesome slayer of enemies your mage is and how much he reminds you of Origins mages. Because my DA2 mages can't hold a candle to my Origin mages. Too few spells, too long of cooldowns, ect. There is no reason to pretend differently.

Edit: Oh, one of the videos I am very keen to see is the Nexus Golem Wares battle in Sundermount. Please post lots of videos so I can learn form you and so you can prove your case.

Dude, did you even bother to read my post or are you so consumed with your "mages are gimped" crusade that you won't be satisfied until DA 2 is like every other RPG where mages obsolete every other class?

Modifié par Joy Divison, 09 avril 2011 - 08:00 .

[Joy Divison]

Jack-Nader wrote...

Here you go grumpy

Hope this works.  I used the identical battle you first posted to show you the difference.  Note that I am also only level 7.

Nice shot!  I noticed you have the rock armor animation turned off.  Is that a mod?  One of the reasons I don't take that spell lol is bc/ I hate the animation.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Jack-Nader wrote...

Here you go grumpy

Hope this works.  I used the identical battle you first posted to show you the difference.  Note that I am also only level 7.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble reading. I already said why I did not have chain lightning. Fanbois claiming elementalists are gods and the reason my level 24 mage was not a god is he was a primal mage with ice and other spells and not elemental mastery. So I went elemental first on this mage.

Please note this  post:

Joy Divison wrote...


I'm at level 10 and took nothing but
elemental (no rock armor, no chain lightning) and heal, and without a
doubt this mage is a lot more deadly and fun to play; you actually
sometimes do feel like it's DA Origins all over again.

Firestorm
isn't actually that difficult to use and in many encounters
(particularly the nighttime ambushes where there are hordes of enemies
clumped up and far away), it trivializes the fight.

My build varies a little  (I took rock armor and Unshakable by level 9) but I was trying to meet the fanboi requirements for godhood play.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 09 avril 2011 - 12:16 .

[Roxlimn]

It works much better if you actually hit things with the spells you're casting.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

It works much better if you actually hit things with the spells you're casting.

Hey Gummy, hows about some vids?

I did hit well with pretty much evertything but the first firestorm in that video. I do have more than one vidoe up also. Compared to all talk no action Rox. Show us your elementalist god mage play Rox.

You don't have a DA2 profile? Are you actually even playing the game?

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 09 avril 2011 - 12:21 .

[Elhanan]

Could also take Spirit Healer and prevent injuries to party? Or not care of the party cause it is filled with whiners, complainers, and other rerps from these forums?

[Jack-Nader]

Meh.. I can see that this is pointless..

Yes joy. I used the mod which disabled the hell ugly spell effects for rock armor over at Dragon age Nexus.

[Lumikki]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

I'm not sure why you are having trouble reading. I already said why I did not have chain lightning. Fanbois claiming elementalists are gods and the reason my level 24 mage was not a god is he was a primal mage with ice and other spells and not elemental mastery. So I went elemental first on this mage.

My build varies a little  (I took rock armor and Unshakable by level 9) but I was trying to meet the fanboi requirements for godhood play.

You do know how you sound here to us others?

Take the damm Chain Lightning too, don't be idiot like others, it's one of best damage spells in NM, because no FF. It's not about elemental or Primal build, it's about DAMAGE build. Less damage you do, more you need defensive spells in you build. Elemental talent tree just is where is the most damage spells.

Modifié par Lumikki, 09 avril 2011 - 02:20 .

[Jack-Nader]

I've got an old save of a level 7 warrior. I respeced my party so that it was identical to the party which I used in the mage video. I even went as far as to give them the exact same weapons.

What I found is pretty much what I thought.

If the warrior is using a physical damage weapon they will need a bucket load of buffs to compete with the mage in terms of DPS. This just isn't possible at level 7. There simply isn't enough talents. However, when I tried Anderfels cleaver it all changed. Taunt + Cleave + mighty blow alone nets me 700 fire damge. This is enough to outright kill every slaver in your hitsphere.

So again as a rule of thumb --- Mage > warrior in terms of DPS until a point is reached in the game where the warrior has access to a countering elemental weapon.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 09 avril 2011 - 03:17 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Jack-Nader wrote...

So again as a rule of thumb --- Mage > warrior in terms of DPS until a point is reached in the game where the warrior has access to a countering elemental weapon.

You are leaving out warrior passives, cleave, assail, each normal attack hitting multiple enemies, ect.

[Att3r0]

its simple mathematic - for warrior putting 10 points in two handed you wont say that any point got wasted (maybe the auto-crit on critters). For elemental mage you got max 9 talents in elemental and you probably will stick to 7.
Now what more points for warrior do ? they get buffs, stacking buffs that buff his all around abilities.
Mage? you need to go for different elements so when thigns are fire immune you got spells to use. You can get some survival/support/CC spells. However the damage of your fire spells will stay this same (apart from item scaling)

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Illume hunts for Ironbark, deteats an ogre, and levels up. He is now an elemental master.

Click

[Jack-Nader]

Sigh..No. I left out nothing. Seriously, I do not see why this is so hard to understand.

Elemental damage bypasses armor. If a warrior is using a physical damage weapon they first need to overcome the enemies physical resistance.

eg. A target has 50% armor resistance then the warrior is going to need + 100% damage just to punch through that resistance. That's your cleave talent wasted right there.

The mage is going to be weilding a staff which is strong vs his/her target creature. This means that the warrior has to make up atleast an additional 100% damage. We will need a passive talent like blood frenzy and we have to have almost no hitpoints to achieve it.

Oh but wait... The mage can have hexes which are an additional 75% damage. We will need sacrificial frenzy to make up this ground and again the warrior will have to have almost zero hitpoints.

So at this point we must be minimum level 9 as a warrior.
Now mages also have the option of grabbing +25% electricity +25% cold + 50% fire from passive talents which is also added to staff damage. We are going to need to find something else to make this damage up. All we have left is assail, berzerker and addrenaline. Barrage and might are out of the picture because a mage has identical talents with haste and heroic aura.

Next problem is the fact that at ANY point in the game, staves have far greater DPS than weapons available to the warrior class. To make matters worse, nearly all the gear has some form of elemental damage bonus. Are you starting to see the big picture yet?

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 09 avril 2011 - 05:04 .