263 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

Jack-Nader:

That was beautiful!

[Ace Attorney]

I was thinking of using Fenris in this setup (instead of Merrill)
http://biowarefans.c...YmoRkcM0HriQfPS

Anders in Martyr spam mode to spam cast Heal/Aid Allies, Haste, Spirit Bolt, Chain Lighting, and Walking Bomb
http://biowarefans.c...1zYmMcoRk0EeBCv

Hawke as an Elemental Force Mage (Needs Second spec)
http://biowarefans.c...MYoSiht1aVPwQrf

And Varric as a Machine Gun
http://biowarefans.c...bURzMtEvesLnjNA

[Irish Porkchopp]

Jack-Nader wrote...

Here is the link showing my stats.  This video is actually even more of a trashing

Awesome.  That perfectly timed walking bomb made me chuckle.  Love it when it works out like that.  What do your tactics look like for that party?

[Lumikki]

I think biggest problem in NM difficulty are immunities for elemental spells and even more double immunities. Example Qunaries have eletrical and fire immunity. What also means your 4 AoE spells (Fireball, Firestorm, Chain Lightning and Tempest) just become absolute useless. This kind of game design really hurts mages a lot in NM, when combinated that AoE's are allready little bit diffuclty because FF.

So, when you go elemental, you gonna have many problems too.

A lot of damage, cause aggro. (Enemies have high health too in NM, so they run to you)
A lot of immunities for different element, can make spells useless based situation.
A lot of AoE spells, what is harder to use because Friendly fire.

Other hand without damage, you gonna need more defence because longer fights. I ques you could say, Elemental mages life is interesting in nightmare difficulty.

Not asked from me, but I also play elemental mage in NM. So, I have very simple tactic settings. Because you can't really have much there, because so many spells would hurt you team. Also sometimes you gonna disable even normal working fine spells, because situations (immunities or other npcs).

Most what I have in tactics is single target spells and heals. I mean you gonna want to control you team anyway, so why let them do anything by them self. I even sometimes change base behavior rules so that I can get my team members passive. Trying to avoid aggro...

My team is, me as mage, Varric, Anders and Avenine. Base gameplay is tank goes to takes aggro and gather enemies in some location, usually near some corner, while rest of team waits behind something and do nothing. When enemies are gathered around Aveline, All my rangers hit them with AoE's. This is very slow gameplay, compared to full range team. Also I never stay in "battle field" where enemy waves spawn, I go some far corner and let enemies run to me.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[Jack-Nader]

My Tactics are nothing special. I chain everything to the same target.

For hawke it's something like this

enemy - target of controlled party member - winters grasp
enemy - target of controlled party member - attack

For Merrill

Enemy - rank - elite or higher - Hex of torment
Enemy - rank - elite or higher - walking bomb ( I would just disable this line when its not applicable)
enemy - target of party member hawke - winters grasp
enemy - target of party member hawke - *insert single target spell or attack command *

Anders is pretty much the same without the hexes and walking bomb. He will have
self - any - haste
ally - health < 50% - heal

Varric is set up the same way.

Hex of torment has almost a zero casting time so it will always land before the bulk of the offensive spells. I beleive cone of cold is an exception to this. It's casting time is very fast and will usually miss out onthe hex of torments bonus damage unless you delay its casting. Next thing is to ensure that the spells you want to take advantage of the Hex trigger next. I add disabling spells to the list next, followed by "enemy - target of party member hawke - attack" which is always last on the list.

Anything that I deem too dangerous for the AI to handle I will leave out of the script. Nothing worse than having varric archers lance your entire team

All ranged party is easily the most powerful party I have tested to date but it is not for everyone. Each of my party members are set up to be glass cannons. It's a very rewarding but also unforgiving way to play.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 11 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[Joy Divison]

Lumikki wrote...

I think biggest problem in NM difficulty are immunities for elemental spells and even more double immunities. Example Qunaries have eletrical and fire immunity. What also means your 4 AoE spells (Fireball, Firestorm, Chain Lightning and Tempest) just become absolute useless. This kind of game design really hurts mages a lot in NM, when combinated that AoE's are allready little bit diffuclty because FF.

So, when you go elemental, you gonna have many problems too.

A lot of damage, cause aggro. (Enemies have high health too in NM, so they run to you)
A lot of immunities for different element, can make spells useless based situation.
A lot of AoE spells, what is harder to use because Friendly fire.

Other hand without damage, you gonna need more defence because longer fights. I ques you could say, Elemental mages life is interesting in nightmare difficulty.

Not asked from me, but I also play elemental mage in NM. So, I have very simple tactics. Because you can't really have much there, because so many spells would hurt you team. Also sometimes you gonna disable even normal working fine spells, because situations (immunities or other npcs).

Most what I have in tactics is single target spells and heals. I mean you gonna want to control you team anyway, so why let them do anything by them self. I even sometimes change base behavior rules so that I can get my team members passive. Tryign to avoid aggro...

Once you get your companions elemental resistance runes, you won't hurt them w/ FF.  I drop firestom on top of whoever is my tank of the moment and it does not faze them at all.  The bad guy clumped around her, though...

Double immunties are annoying, but made up for by vulnerabilities.  Even if half your spells are useless, most of your atacks are auto-attacks anyways so that's double damage and spells like haste, horror, etc. always work.

I think you should trust the tactics.  I am actually impressed how reasonable my companions play wo/ much input.  It makes the game go a lot faster than pausing every 3 seconds or so issuing 4 commands.

Drawing aggro is a little annoying, but kiting in this game is exceptionally strong and I set my companions up to attack things attacking me.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Illume finds a young templar is not what he seems.

Click

[Lumikki]

Joy Divison wrote...

I think you should trust the tactics.  I am actually impressed how reasonable my companions play wo/ much input.  It makes the game go a lot faster than pausing every 3 seconds or so issuing 4 commands.

Sorry, but I just don't play that way in NM difficulty. Sure it works fine in hard or lower difficulty, but in nightmare it's not so good. You can't really use good tactics setting in NM, because FF and resistances.

In simple way sayed companions do stupid stuff, like running middle of battle field or trying to hit or shoot enemies.. Tactics doesn't really see situations like human sees, like how enemies are gathering some location, because tank is luring them there. Little same issue like in many mmorpgs does happen when tank is gathering (collecting them in one place) enemies and some player is acting too soon, hole situation gets spoiled, causing enemies scatter.

Modifié par Lumikki, 11 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[Jack-Nader]

I just finished the Nexus golem fight. I was going to post it but I don't think I will bother now. It consisted mostly of me standing around for 20 seconds waiting for things to spawn.. very boring.

Nightmare - lvl 14,  The only quest I completed in act 2 before hand was Night terror for the +10 attribute boost.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 11 avril 2011 - 04:01 .

[Joy Divison]

Lumikki wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I think you should trust the tactics.  I am actually impressed how reasonable my companions play wo/ much input.  It makes the game go a lot faster than pausing every 3 seconds or so issuing 4 commands.

Sorry, but I just don't play that way in NM difficulty. Sure it works fine in hard or lower difficulty, but in nightmare it's not so good. You can't really use good tactics setting in NM, because FF and resistances.

In simple way sayed companions do stupid stuff, like running middle of battle field or trying to hit or shoot enemies.. Tactics doesn't really see situations like human sees, like how enemies are gathering some location, because tank is luring them there. Little same issue like in many mmorpgs does happen when tank is gathering (collecting them in one place) enemies and some player is acting too soon, hole situation gets spoiled, causing enemies scatter.

I see I am not going to change your mind, but I will give credit to where it is due.  I hate micromanagement.  In all my Origins playthroughs, I controlled the GW 99% of the time and all my companions tactics were "attack nearest enemy" and "drink poition when health <25%"

I will just say the way they set up the system in DA2 the only time I find it necessary to pause is if there is a dangerous enemy in a unfavorable situation (for me) and the number of times Varric wanders into the middle of group of melee enemies is very overstated.  Whatever disagreements I have with the changes made from Origins, I will give the developers credit for a robust tactical menu that allows me to play hands-off on nightmare.

[Sylriel]

Jack-Nader wrote...

I just finished the Nexus golem fight. I was going to post it but I don't think I will bother now. It consisted mostly of me standing around for 20 seconds waiting for things to spawn.. very boring.

Nightmare - lvl 14,  The only quest I completed in act 2 before hand was Night terror for the +10 attribute boost.

Please do reconsider.  I would love to see it.  It would be grat if you were able to capture your build as well in it.

Please. 

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Illume defeats the blood mage Decimus.

Click

[Ace Attorney]

Lumikki wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

I think you should trust the tactics.  I am actually impressed how reasonable my companions play wo/ much input.  It makes the game go a lot faster than pausing every 3 seconds or so issuing 4 commands.

Sorry, but I just don't play that way in NM difficulty. Sure it works fine in hard or lower difficulty, but in nightmare it's not so good. You can't really use good tactics setting in NM, because FF and resistances.

1. Give FF Safe skills on your companions.
2. Set up smart tactics.
3. ???
4. Profit.

Joy Divison wrote...

In simple way sayed companions do stupid stuff, like running middle of battle field or trying to hit or shoot enemies.. Tactics doesn't really see situations like human sees, like how enemies are gathering some location, because tank is luring them there. Little same issue like in many mmorpgs does happen when tank is gathering (collecting them in one place) enemies and some player is acting too soon, hole situation gets spoiled, causing enemies scatter.

There is a Hold command for a reason.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 11 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Irish Porkchopp]

Jack-Nader wrote...

My Tactics are nothing special. I chain everything to the same target.

For hawke it's something like this

enemy - target of controlled party member - winters grasp
enemy - target of controlled party member - attack

For Merrill

Enemy - rank - elite or higher - Hex of torment
Enemy - rank - elite or higher - walking bomb ( I would just disable this line when its not applicable)
enemy - target of party member hawke - winters grasp
enemy - target of party member hawke - *insert single target spell or attack command *

Anders is pretty much the same without the hexes and walking bomb. He will have
self - any - haste
ally - health < 50% - heal

Varric is set up the same way.

Hex of torment has almost a zero casting time so it will always land before the bulk of the offensive spells. I beleive cone of cold is an exception to this. It's casting time is very fast and will usually miss out onthe hex of torments bonus damage unless you delay its casting. Next thing is to ensure that the spells you want to take advantage of the Hex trigger next. I add disabling spells to the list next, followed by "enemy - target of party member hawke - attack" which is always last on the list.

Anything that I deem too dangerous for the AI to handle I will leave out of the script. Nothing worse than having varric archers lance your entire team

All ranged party is easily the most powerful party I have tested to date but it is not for everyone. Each of my party members are set up to be glass cannons. It's a very rewarding but also unforgiving way to play.

Ok, thanks.  I didn't appreaciate the value of focused fire until I started using "Enemy: Target of Hawke>Attack" or other variants.  It makes a huge difference.

[Jack-Nader]

Ok.. here is the nexus golem fight

[Sylriel]

Jack-Nader wrote...


Ok.. here is the nexus golem fight

That was awesome!  Thanks for posting it. 

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

It is hard to read the numbers at 360 resolution but it looks like up only put attribute points in Magic for your two companion mages. It looks like most damage is coming from normal staff attacks as a result.

[Jack-Nader]

Anders and Merrill are stock attribute distribution with 3 poitns chucked into constitution. IMO was a waste to put them there. Varric's talents all boost critical chance, attack and speed so I have been piling points into cunning. Hawke mage has every single point put into magic with the exception of willpower for minimum armor requirements. 

You'll also notice that I used a fire staff for the entire battle despite almost everything being weak to electricity.  Reason for this is hawke is loaded with fire gear.  I have over + 100% fire damage added to her base.  It wasn't even a very good staff.  I paid like 98 silver for it in lowtown

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 11 avril 2011 - 09:13 .

[Att3r0]

kamikaze build ! do you travel around like that or its just for the fight ? must be a lot of reloads lol
yet good movie looking forward for Xebenkeck version. Inside job might also be interesting with this setup.

Modifié par Att3r0, 11 avril 2011 - 10:06 .

[Roxlimn]

Att3r0 wrote...

kamikaze build ! do you travel around like that or its just for the fight ? must be a lot of reloads lol
yet good movie looking forward for Xebenkeck version. Inside job might also be interesting with this setup.

The build isn't quite as risky as it looks.  As per the vids, the point of a nuke party is to kill everything so fast they don't have time to attack you (and to lock down everything that isn't going to die immediately).

[Trefecka]

Silly question, but with such little constitution won't you have problems with knockback/knockdown from archers?

[Lumikki]

T3hAnubis wrote...

1. Give FF Safe skills on your companions.
2. Set up smart tactics.
3. ???
4. Profit.

If I give only FF safe skills to my companion, then I'm soloing with support companions. To everyone in team to be efficient, they should have best possible "skills" to do the job and not be affected by poor AI design when using tactics as how they use those skills. Of course I try to have the few tactics as good as possible. But because FF there is limits, when using none friendly skills.

Example all my mages has AoE spells. There is no other way cast them in NM difficulty than manual ways. Unless the rare case that AoE doesn't have FF issue, like Chain lightning. I can also make very smart rules to target enemies with single attack spells, but does AI know if the target is immune for it? If enemy was immune then companion just wasted mana and time for nothing. Meaning I would have to micro-manage the tactics based situations. As there is no rules saying. If enemy : not immune for skill : then use the skill

In Hard difficulty I often has alot more tactics rules than in NM. Because gameplay in Hard is lot more friendly for using tactics rules. No immunities and no FF. That's why I often play in Hard, because it just gives more pleasent gameplay experience. No need to make alot of compromizes, because lack of poor Ai, what can't cast AoE's without hitting your own or doesn't know when enemy is immune to skill.

Trefecka wrote...

Silly question, but with such little constitution won't you have problems with knockback/knockdown from archers?

Archers are annoying, but one archer can only attack one "person". So, you can attack same archer with more than one companion or try to lure archers attack to tank, while you take them out. Think about it. You can allways support companion, what is under archer fire, there is tactics rules for it..

Example:
Hawke: Been attacked by melee or ranged: Pinning shot
Hawke: Been attacked by ranged: Attack
Anders: Been attacked by melee or ranged: Crushing prison
Ally: Been attacked by ranged: Attack

There is alot of defensive skills, control and attack skills to help situations. It's like ideology defend you self first, if you have time and see that others need help, then help them to defend them self too. Because it helps if you all in group act like a group, not induvidual soloing.

I don't my self have much rules in NM, because like sayed before, I'm micro-managing the combat anyway. Sure, I still have friendly rules, like healing, buffing, debuffing, defending and helping others. I just leave attack rules to manual control, except friendly single attacks.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 avril 2011 - 02:47 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Illume encounters a really big spider in th Deep Roads.

Click