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[Maugrim]

OOC: I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet I don't see it...so apologies in advance if it's old news.


Extra Punctuation: Roleplaying Homosexual in Dragon Age 2

It was with some interest that I read that there were people complaining about there being too many gay people in Dragon Age 2, no doubt preceding their words with the phrase "I'm not homophobic, but." For all of Dragon Age 2's problems, that shouldn't be one of them. By my count, as a male protagonist, there are three girls you can mess around with, and only two boys who are up for sausage sandwiches. And it's easy enough to simply not pursue any saucy flirts with anyone you're not into. Are there men so insecure that they're offended by fictional gay men coming onto their fictional avatars? Surely at worst it's just a nice compliment and you can then politely set them straight, if that's not anunfortunate choice of words.

David Gaider's statement that the romances in DA2 are intended for "everyone" struck a chord with me, because I already intended to write a column about my personal experience with the romances in the game. I think David's statement goes deeper than he may have intended - any player of any sexuality can enjoy any of the romances in the game.

Yahtzee doesn't seem to be the type to like romances of any stripes so it was intersting to see him be so seemingly supportive.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 12:15 .

[Miashi]

Well, that sure made me laugh. Good points though.

[Seagloom]

That was interesting. Enlightening even. My estimation of Yahtzee has gone up a few rungs. The crudity of his words in places made me raise an eyebrow at times, but it was an otherwise good read. I also liked how he approached the game as a role-player without preconceived notions. Thanks for the link.

Modifié par Seagloom, 06 avril 2011 - 12:28 .

[Sarielle]

Oh crap, this reminds me I still need to watch the Zero Punctuation DA2 review.

that snarky bastard Yahtzee. But I really didn't expect to see him talking about romances.

[Maria Caliban]

D'aaaw.

[QwibQwib]

Sarielle wrote...

Oh crap, this reminds me I still need to watch the Zero Punctuation DA2 review.

that snarky bastard Yahtzee. But I really didn't expect to see him talking about romances.

Hah, thanks. I'm watching it with my boyfriend.

[AlexXIV]

As a straight male gamer who mostly plays female characters  I can only say that I like that all LIs were bi. I mean I had the choice between 3 males and 2 females for my Hawkette. I wish Bioware had done it for DA:O and and Mass Effect already.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I've seen Yahtzee in a completely different light.  Loved this part:

The long and the short of it is, if you honestly can't find something beautiful in the self-sacrificing devotion between two people just because they're both trouser-wearers, then I pity you, I really do.

[Maugrim]

I'm a pretty big DA2 apologist and even I admit it has many shortcomings, even if so far they have only minimally dampened my enthusiasm for the game. The fact that he continued to think about Anders and his romance even after moving onto another completely unrelated game speaks volumes and only reinforces my love of DA2.

Yahtzee said...

I suppose it's a significant point in a game's favor that it can provoke this kind of emotion, but I wonder how much of it was intended by the developers and how many blanks were filled in within my crazed mind alone

IMO I don't think it's all Yahtzee/ThePlayer filling in the blanks. Many of these feelings are universal and I bet that dollars to donuts that the writers consciously and subconsciously wrote the romances to call forth these emotions.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 12:48 .

[Maugrim]

To make this double post slightly more useful

Anders said...

"Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you , and there will be no templars to tear them apart." 

As much as I don't like Anders or his bloody romance that's one of the best damn lines in the whole game.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 12:52 .

[Gavinthelocust]

That's what I like about Yahtzee, he can be both funny and intelligent(something most people trip over). He's offensive but only to the things that deserve it. Didn't expect something so romantic though, the big softie.

[TheBlackBaron]

This is a whole new side of Yahtzee. I love the guy's reviews but he seems like the type to absolutely despise the romance sideplots of Bioware games.

[Beerfish]

My only beef with the way that the male and male romance was handled was that they seemed far more immediate than any romances in the past. Darn near in the 1st convo you have with the male romance partners you are getting the heart or broken heart icons which seemed quicker than the other ones. There didn't seem to be the usual start out cordial and then develop.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Well, to be fair, DA games generally have more developed romance plots than some earlier Bioware RPGs.

[TheBlackBaron]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Well, to be fair, DA games generally have more developed romance plots than some earlier Bioware RPGs.

Dunno, some would argue that the Bastila romance has never been equaled, particularly in how it integrates into the main plot. 

'Course, I would say the same thing about both the Morrigan and Alistair romances, so...yeah. YMMV. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 avril 2011 - 01:56 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

"Why did you [Anders] quickly become an almost permanent
mainstay of my regular adventuring party? Well, I can answer that one:
because he was the only character with Healing magic, but shut up, I'm
role playing."

[Stinkface27]

This was hilarious and adorable! I love him for writing this.

I share his sentiments regarding role playing, too - as a straight, married female, I originally decided to play male Hawke simply due to dat sweet bod. Over the course of the game I came to love my Hawke and any pre-conceived notions of him and his preferences went out the window and I began to just go with what felt right. That's my favorite way to play and in the end I'm glad I didn't just try to "role play" as myself.

Modifié par Stinkface27, 06 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[fluorine7]

makenzieshepard wrote...

To make this double post slightly more useful

Anders said...

"Ten years, a hundred years from now, someone like me will love someone like you , and there will be no templars to tear them apart." 

As much as I don't like Anders or his bloody romance that's one of the best damn lines in the whole game.

I have to second this one. As much as I don't like Anders as an obsessive fanatic terrorist, I forgive myself for sparing his life because of this line. Although, love was never Ander's driving motivation. He had the chanse to pick between his love for Hawke and his crusade, and he pick his crusade over and over.... So that somewhat make this statement rather hollow. 

[Kinaori]

Well said. Good on him. Crude though he is at times, he is eloquent.

[Foolsfolly]

Kinaori wrote...

Well said. Good on him. Crude though he is at times, he is eloquent.

Don't confuse the character he plays in his reviews with who he is.

And the man takes a dump on BioWare games but at the same time he always talks about how he loves their writing. In his Mass Effect review he said how if his review career ever ended he'd apply to BioWare because they're the only devs who think writing is an important part in development.

In Mass Effect 2 he summed up that writing's better but that since it's BioWare that's expected and they don't get points for it anymore.

In Dragon Age: Origins he talked about he hadn't beaten the game yet and he so addicted that the story must work right.

Guy's a good reviewer, he has his likes (mainly platformers it seems) but he's always loved BioWare for their writing. So this doesn't surprise me at all.

[David Gaider]

That is the BEST thing I've read today. 

An incredible array of euphamisms for gay men in there, I have to admit.

It's also an excellent point. I've said before that our telemetry shows more people using this content than many assume-- and the only interpretation to draw from it is that there are more gay players than anyone believes or many people who are not gay themselves are perfectly willing to roleplay it in a game.

[mesmerizedish]

David Gaider wrote...

That is the BEST thing I've read today. 

An incredible array of euphamisms for gay men in there, I have to admit.

It's also an excellent point. I've said before that our telemetry shows more people using this content than many assume-- and the only interpretation to draw from it is that there are more gay players than anyone believes or many people who are not gay themselves are perfectly willing to roleplay it in a game.

That's really fanatastic to hear. I know you're never going to give us the actual hard statistics, but it's really great to know that so many people are enjoying what you've done

[Kinaori]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Kinaori wrote...

Well said. Good on him. Crude though he is at times, he is eloquent.

Don't confuse the character he plays in his reviews with who he is.

And the man takes a dump on BioWare games but at the same time he always talks about how he loves their writing. In his Mass Effect review he said how if his review career ever ended he'd apply to BioWare because they're the only devs who think writing is an important part in development.

In Mass Effect 2 he summed up that writing's better but that since it's BioWare that's expected and they don't get points for it anymore.

In Dragon Age: Origins he talked about he hadn't beaten the game yet and he so addicted that the story must work right.

Guy's a good reviewer, he has his likes (mainly platformers it seems) but he's always loved BioWare for their writing. So this doesn't surprise me at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love his crudeness   Or... his persona's crudeness, or whatever.  I would definitely be curious how many folks roleplay outside their RL sexuality.  It's cool to hear.

[Horus Blackheart]

Mr Gaider,

I'm on record in other threads as supporting the full range of romance options and permutations in gaming. I also feel that in the case of Meril and fenris that the 'hawke-a sexual concept did not (to me anyway) fit their personas. It came across as: 'wow hawk is cool' I think i want to fumble around in our combat gear now', at worsed. AT best it came across as been open to experamentation because thay trust him/her.
Also i'd be very interested in your thoughts with regaurd to disablity and sexuality in games. sexuality and disablity are widly considered taboo subjects. More so than orentation, athough if you combine all three it would be really explosive!

I ask for a few reasons mostly because of Joker and mass effect I dont feel its a senareo you could touch on in the da setting ( I dont know i'll leave that up to you.)

Thanks for the hours of entertainment.

Edit I know that parts of my post are off topic sorry. I do hope it's considered relavent.

Modifié par Horus Blackheart, 06 avril 2011 - 03:32 .