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[ipgd]

I become pleased whenever people say "friend of Dorothy".

[mesmerizedish]

ipgd wrote...

I become pleased whenever people say "friend of Dorothy".

That's one of my favorites!

[ipgd]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

ipgd wrote...

I become pleased whenever people say "friend of Dorothy".

That's one of my favorites!

I can never decide between that and "queen" as my favorite. Gay men get all the best names.

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Kinaori wrote...

Well said. Good on him. Crude though he is at times, he is eloquent.

Don't confuse the character he plays in his reviews with who he is.

And the man takes a dump on BioWare games but at the same time he always talks about how he loves their writing. In his Mass Effect review he said how if his review career ever ended he'd apply to BioWare because they're the only devs who think writing is an important part in development.

In Mass Effect 2 he summed up that writing's better but that since it's BioWare that's expected and they don't get points for it anymore.

In Dragon Age: Origins he talked about he hadn't beaten the game yet and he so addicted that the story must work right.

Guy's a good reviewer, he has his likes (mainly platformers it seems) but he's always loved BioWare for their writing. So this doesn't surprise me at all.

Well, also, to be fair, he doesn't seem to savage RPGs in general as much as he does certain other installments of beloved franchises - writing does seem to go a pretty long way for him, even when it's only marginally better than the standard first-person shooter (see: Fallout 3). None of his reviews of Bioware games I could really call "taking a dump", at least not like I've seen him do for certain other games. 

Just never would have expected that he'd really go for the whole romance thing. I've got a friend who has a lot of the same opinions as him who, while enjoying games like KotOR and Oblivion and Dragon Age, is completely baffled by how people care about the social aspects of them. 

EDIT: On other fronts, as I've said before, the Hawkesexual nature of some of the companions (and yes, Anders is in my mind the worst offender) is basically what annoys me the most. Don't really care much about them taking their own direction and doing some flirting - I remember being surprised when Zevran first started flirting with my Cousland back in Origins but it was a very simple matter to gently let him down, and nothing ever came of it again. So long as you've got that option I fail to see how homosexuality or bisexuality in characters constitues a problem. 

Also, technically whenever I'm doing a F/F romance it's "playing outside my own sexuality"...but considering it's still female-targeted I don't think it really counts. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 avril 2011 - 03:48 .

[Comrade Bork]

While I support same-sex relationships in video games, I still just wish they were a defined part of the person's character. I know that it is more cost efficient to write a romance and allow it to be played by both sexes, BUT I feel that it would have been much more enjoyable to have characters' sexualities to be either gay, straight, or bisexual. That is my main issue with the implementation of the romances. Just my 2 cents.
Wandered semi off-topic. I enjoy Yahtzee and he usually makes sense, I never completely disagree with him, he always brings up something valid (whether I agree on the finer points or not).

[Maugrim]

Comrade Bork wrote...

While I support same-sex relationships in video games, I still just wish they were a defined part of the person's character. I know that it is more cost efficient to write a romance and allow it to be played by both sexes, BUT I feel that it would have been much more enjoyable to have characters' sexualities to be either gay, straight, or bisexual. That is my main issue with the implementation of the romances. Just my 2 cents.
Wandered semi off-topic. I enjoy Yahtzee and he usually makes sense, I never completely disagree with him, he always brings up something valid (whether I agree on the finer points or not).

Congratulations your wish has been granted, they are all bisexual!

Now lets just cut off your other suddenly appearing objections at the pass

1.) Arguing 'realism' in a fantasy setting that doesn't really exist is pointless.

2.)  Having four bisexuals in a group isn't unrealistic in the first place.

3.)  Yes Anders still diddled(to borrow a word from Yahtzee) Karl in a F!Hawke playthrough he just doesn't bring it up.

4. They are all bisexual.  Repeat this as needed and call me in the morning.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 04:00 .

[MKDAWUSS]

And really, all the "everyone is bisexual" theme did was save the work of modders. That said, we need to see more definite homosexual relationships in DA. The only time you saw anything of the sort was PC-NPC. Where was the homosexual married couple? Where was the homosexual matchmaking? To be quite honest, DA has been very mild about that sort of thing. All married couples are heterosexuals, and the only matchmaking that's done NPC-NPC has been heterosexual.

If you're gonna' be the flagship of minority sexualities, you can't just half-ass as a sidethought bonus. Go all the way and reinforce the notion that it's common and no big deal in the world.

[Maugrim]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And really, all the "everyone is bisexual" theme did was save the work of modders. That said, we need to see more definite homosexual relationships in DA. The only time you saw anything of the sort was PC-NPC. Where was the homosexual married couple? Where was the homosexual matchmaking? To be quite honest, DA has been very mild about that sort of thing. All married couples are heterosexuals, and the only matchmaking that's done NPC-NPC has been heterosexual.

If you're gonna' be the flagship of minority sexualities, you can't just half-ass as a sidethought bonus. Go all the way and reinforce the notion that it's common and no big deal in the world.

But it isn't common...and it shouldn't be anytime soon.

Sexuality and Marriage in Dragon Age

Gay marriage doesn't make sense in the DA World.  Now I consider my Female Human Noble Warden and Leliana 'married' and as the new Teryn of Gwaren/Arl of Amaranthine I'm sure most people know whose bed she is sleeping but that doesn't mean they'd accept a marriage.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[ipgd]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And really, all the "everyone is bisexual" theme did was save the work of modders. That said, we need to see more definite homosexual relationships in DA. The only time you saw anything of the sort was PC-NPC. Where was the homosexual married couple? Where was the homosexual matchmaking? To be quite honest, DA has been very mild about that sort of thing. All married couples are heterosexuals, and the only matchmaking that's done NPC-NPC has been heterosexual.

If you're gonna' be the flagship of minority sexualities, you can't just half-ass as a sidethought bonus. Go all the way and reinforce the notion that it's common and no big deal in the world.

If Wade and Herren aren't the archetypical old married couple I don't know what is.

[Ryenke]

That was fantastic. And one of my favorite things about the two DA games is when I start a new character and find him/her (Hawke or Warden) doing things I didn't plan on.

ME: "Hawke, you are flirting with Fenris, this was supposed to be an Isabella run."
MY SARCASTIC MALE HAWKE: "Broody Fenris completes me. And he needs my humor"
ME: "uh. I'm going crazy, aren't I?"
HAWKE: "Mildly crazy. I mean you're no Anders"

[Brockololly]

TheBlackBaron wrote...
EDIT: On other fronts, as I've said before, the Hawkesexual nature of some of the companions (and yes, Anders is in my mind the worst offender) is basically what annoys me the most.

Comrade Bork wrote...

While I support same-sex
relationships in video games, I still just wish they were a defined part
of the person's character. I know that it is more cost efficient to
write a romance and allow it to be played by both sexes, BUT I feel that
it would have been much more enjoyable to have characters' sexualities
to be either gay, straight, or bisexual. That is my main issue with the
implementation of the romances. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed.

The whole "Oh, they're whatever sexuality you think they are!" stuff is annoying with NPCs. I like strongly defined NPCs- the whole nebulous Hawkesexual stuff is just cheap. If they want to make all LIs available make them all bi, even though I find that kind of unbelievable.

Otherwise I'd rather they just have characters like Morrigan and Alistair straight, Zevran and Leliana bi and so on. Hell, toss in a gay character-  what I loved about New Vegas and Arcade Gannon was how he was a gay character, but it was just one part of him- he wasn't necessarily defined by that fact. But it was part of who he was and that made him a stronger character I thought, as opposed to if he was just some nebulous Hawkesexual type. It just feels cheap to me when one's sexuality is often an important part of who one might be and yet in the interest of accessability,  the DA2 romances sort of feel cookie cutter, one size fits all.

I mean, take Alistair in DAO- Oghren and Morrigan make fun of him and insinuate that he's gay but in reality he's a virgin. Or how Morrigan seems none too interested at all in Leliana's creepy leering at her breasts. Or even Aveline turning down the PC- defined NPCs are a good thing.

[Altima Darkspells]

I'm not homophobic, but I agree with the article.

[Bryy_Miller]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

I'm not homophobic, but I agree with the article.

I see what you did there.

[jlb524]

Horus Blackheart wrote...

I'm on record in other threads as supporting the full range of romance options and permutations in gaming. I also feel that in the case of Meril and fenris that the 'hawke-a sexual concept did not (to me anyway) fit their personas.

Yeah...Merrill should have been a lesbian and Fenris gay.  I just can't see either going for the opposite sex....considering their personas.

Or their elfishness.

Modifié par jlb524, 06 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[Maugrim]

jlb524 wrote...

Horus Blackheart wrote...

I'm on record in other threads as supporting the full range of romance options and permutations in gaming. I also feel that in the case of Meril and fenris that the 'hawke-a sexual concept did not (to me anyway) fit their personas.

Yeah...Merrill should have been a lesbian and Fenris gay.  I just can't see either going for the opposite sex....considering their personas.

Or their elfishness.

But if it's not gay if it's an elf...

How does that work out?

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 04:30 .

[jlb524]

makenzieshepard wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Horus Blackheart wrote...

I'm on record in other threads as supporting the full range of romance options and permutations in gaming. I also feel that in the case of Meril and fenris that the 'hawke-a sexual concept did not (to me anyway) fit their personas.

Yeah...Merrill should have been a lesbian and Fenris gay.  I just can't see either going for the opposite sex....considering their personas.

Or their elfishness.

But if it's not gay if it's an elf...

How does that work out?

I think that applies only to male elves...with females it's extra gay.

[Mr.House]

That was a good read.

[MKDAWUSS]

makenzieshepard wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And really, all the "everyone is bisexual" theme did was save the work of modders. That said, we need to see more definite homosexual relationships in DA. The only time you saw anything of the sort was PC-NPC. Where was the homosexual married couple? Where was the homosexual matchmaking? To be quite honest, DA has been very mild about that sort of thing. All married couples are heterosexuals, and the only matchmaking that's done NPC-NPC has been heterosexual.

If you're gonna' be the flagship of minority sexualities, you can't just half-ass as a sidethought bonus. Go all the way and reinforce the notion that it's common and no big deal in the world.

But it isn't common...and it shouldn't be anytime soon.

Sexuality and Marriage in Dragon Age

Gay marriage doesn't make sense in the DA World.  Now I consider my Female Human Noble Warden and Leliana 'married' and as the new Teryn of Gwaren/Arl of Amaranthine I'm sure most people know whose bed she is sleeping but that doesn't mean they'd accept a marriage.

It should be expanded past the player character nonetheless. It seems like the Warden and Hawke are the only ones in Thedas who seem to have no problems finding non-heterosexuals...

[Oneiropolos]

But see, if they made characters 'just homosexual', it'd be a step BACK from the 'opening it to all players'. Because then, logically, it follows we'd have to have just straight characters too. Which means four LIs...Two male, Two female.. but uhm.. only one male if I want to roleplay a straight relationship and only one female if a male wanted to roleplay a straight relationship. Which would go back towards if you wanted a gay relationship in DA:O, you only had Zev or Leliana. Once again, this is LIMITING options. Plus it's completely ignoring the existence of bisexuals. Of which I actually know more bisexuals than I do actual just homosexuals. I asked one of my lesbian friends about it, and she said she was the only lesbian in her immediate group of friends, that most of them were bisexual. Even if her girlfriend was bisexual.

Bioware has proven they're VERY aware of bisexuality and.. it lets you get together with who you want as opposed to having the game just tell you to be happy with the one choice you're given. Over all, people can choose to roleplay it in their minds how they want to. Fenris comes across to me as a straight character until I'm reminded by a male player who prefers Fenris that no, guys can romance him. One of the first things I said to my friends when we heard about the love interests, before we heard anything indicating they were all bisexual, was that Anders and Isabela would be the bisexual ones and Fenris and Merrill would be the straight. But I was by NO means displeased that they would all be open to everyone.

Edit: Though yes, I think it'd be refreshing to see more Wade and Herren's around the world. It never has to be a "SO LOOK AT THEM. THEY'RE GAY" but I always enjoyed in Doctor Who the sly winks they gave towards couples and stuff. That they were in that episode, and they were a couple, but oh well, who cares, it's neither here nor there that they are. Not talking about Captain Jack. Captain Jack was a bit more obvious.  But that's why he's so sexy. 

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 06 avril 2011 - 04:54 .

[Statulos]

David Gaider wrote...

That is the BEST thing I've read today. 

An incredible array of euphamisms for gay men in there, I have to admit.

It's also an excellent point. I've said before that our telemetry shows more people using this content than many assume-- and the only interpretation to draw from it is that there are more gay players than anyone believes or many people who are not gay themselves are perfectly willing to roleplay it in a game.

Homosexuality is just "another brick in the wall" for me. I mean, in DA series I can play a decent person or a monster, a beliver or an atheist, a person with a code or an ends justyfy the means, I can be ironic or serious, I can be selfless or selfish... and ******, hetero or bi. So it´s an extra nice option and more possibilities are always welcomed.

Since I live in the same town where Dr. Alfred Kingsey did a research career, these topics are a bit more present here than in many other places, so it is good to see that in DA2 you´re given the possibility of being 100% ******, 100% hetero or 50%/50% bi allowing you a certain level of "in between-ness".

Modifié par Statulos, 06 avril 2011 - 04:58 .

[Foolsfolly]

I will go on record jlb524 that I consider Merrill straight largely because I've never lesbian romanced her.

Romancing Fenris now as a FemHawke and it seems to fit the personalities of the characters fine enough.

I think it's just proof that these characters are written well regardless of gender or sexuality.

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I will go on record jlb524 that I consider Merrill straight largely because I've never lesbian romanced her.

Romancing Fenris now as a FemHawke and it seems to fit the personalities of the characters fine enough.

I think it's just proof that these characters are written well regardless of gender or sexuality.

Well, it also hopes that unlike Isabela and Anders, who imo were pretty firmly established as bi and straight respectively in DA:O and DA:A, Merrill had all of 30 minutes of optional screentime and Fenris is completely new. They're blank slates. 

[Oneiropolos]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I will go on record jlb524 that I consider Merrill straight largely because I've never lesbian romanced her.

Romancing Fenris now as a FemHawke and it seems to fit the personalities of the characters fine enough.

I think it's just proof that these characters are written well regardless of gender or sexuality.

Well, it also hopes that unlike Isabela and Anders, who imo were pretty firmly established as bi and straight respectively in DA:O and DA:A, Merrill had all of 30 minutes of optional screentime and Fenris is completely new. They're blank slates. 

I never got why people are seeing Anders as STRAIGHT....I just kinda thought he PREFERRED women, and he didn't want to raise more attention to himself so when he talked about sexuality, it was always about a woman.. but he also seemed to kinda flirt with some of the male companions, even if it was in a teasing way. I don't think it was ever "He's gay!" or "He's straight!" I felt Anders in Awakening could have been either way (or bisexual) but since we couldn't pull him aside often to talk in that game (damn conversation system in that game) we just had more important things to talk about rather than "Sooo, who do you like in your bed better?" 

[Maugrim]

There are people who were at my birth, changed my diapers, lived with and helped raise me that did not know I was gay.  A few figured it out, some had to be told. There are some that still don't know, though they may suspect. I guess I'm not believably gay.....<_<

The argument that because you spent PART of a 30 hour (being very generous here) expansion pack with a fictional character and that they didn't hold a pride parade, which obviously means they can't be bisexual/gay is ludicrous at best and several other things I can't print here at worst.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[Inzhuna]

That article is all kinds of awesome.

Love this quote: "The long and the short of it is, if you honestly can't find something beautiful in the self-sacrificing devotion between two people just because they're both trouser-wearers, then I pity you, I really do."