147 réponses à ce sujet

[Cutlass Jack]

Really funny read. And one I agree completely with.

Euphanisms aside, my wife fell into the Anders relationship on her first playthrough (as a male rogue) in nearly the same manner. She hadn't intended that Hawke to romance Anders, it was just something that happened due to the way the game unfolded for her.

She came to the funny realization midway through the romance, that Anders was really the romantic lead of his story, and that her male hawke was actually the 'princess' of the Tale. Which led to us jokingly reworking the classic Seinfeld pirate shirt whine to "But I dont want to be a princess!"

I intended romancing Anders myself on my second playthrough. (Isabela being the only concievable choice for me on the first run. Its like she was put in just for me.) The only thing that curtailed it, wasn't the gay thing, but rather knowing now how the story ends up with him. I think the Anders relationship only truly works best if you have no clue what's coming.

I'm not sure I could let myself get that attached to him now that I know it will end with letting him hold onto the murder knife for me. I think my wife replayed that scene like four times before she managed not to stab him.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 06 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[Sjofn]

ipgd wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And really, all the "everyone is bisexual" theme did was save the work of modders. That said, we need to see more definite homosexual relationships in DA. The only time you saw anything of the sort was PC-NPC. Where was the homosexual married couple? Where was the homosexual matchmaking? To be quite honest, DA has been very mild about that sort of thing. All married couples are heterosexuals, and the only matchmaking that's done NPC-NPC has been heterosexual.

If you're gonna' be the flagship of minority sexualities, you can't just half-ass as a sidethought bonus. Go all the way and reinforce the notion that it's common and no big deal in the world.

If Wade and Herren aren't the archetypical old married couple I don't know what is.

Seriously, the very first time I heard them talk to each other (I was watching my husband play) I said, "Wow, they are so married."

Also the term "bum chums" made me laugh and I don't care who knows it.

[Inzhuna]

Oh, and

makenzieshepard wrote...

2.)  Having four bisexuals in a group isn't unrealistic in the first place.

This so much.

[Mr.House]

Wade and Herren are the best NPC couple ever.

[TheBlackBaron]

Oneiropolos wrote...

I never got why people are seeing Anders as STRAIGHT....I just kinda thought he PREFERRED women, and he didn't want to raise more attention to himself so when he talked about sexuality, it was always about a woman.. but he also seemed to kinda flirt with some of the male companions, even if it was in a teasing way. I don't think it was ever "He's gay!" or "He's straight!" I felt Anders in Awakening could have been either way (or bisexual) but since we couldn't pull him aside often to talk in that game (damn conversation system in that game) we just had more important things to talk about rather than "Sooo, who do you like in your bed better?" 

Gee, I don't know, maybe it's all the flirting he did with the female party members and the oft-repeated "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools" line? And that I never saw any of his interactions with Nate or the other male companions as being flirtatious? 

There's nothing that says he can't be bisexual, but it sure as hell seemed like he was straight. 

[PsychoBlonde]

That's a great article. It's interesting to hear that Yahtzee had a really good time with the romance because he's mostly critical in his review--but he's PAID to be critical, and his Mass Effect 2 was much the same:

criticism
criticism
criticism
criticism
criticism
oh btw the writing is good
criticism
criticism

[PsychoBlonde]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

There's nothing that says he can't be bisexual, but it sure as hell seemed like he was straight. 

Even straight guys are gay for Hawke.

[Foolsfolly]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I will go on record jlb524 that I consider Merrill straight largely because I've never lesbian romanced her.

Romancing Fenris now as a FemHawke and it seems to fit the personalities of the characters fine enough.

I think it's just proof that these characters are written well regardless of gender or sexuality.

Well, it also hopes that unlike Isabela and Anders, who imo were pretty firmly established as bi and straight respectively in DA:O and DA:A, Merrill had all of 30 minutes of optional screentime and Fenris is completely new. They're blank slates. 

I honestly thought Anders was gay when I met him in Awakening. It's not until he talks about how he wants a woman that I thought, "Oh ****! He's straight!"

I think it was the earring, blonde hair, and effeminate personality that made me think he was gay mage Alistair.

So the whole, "he's bi now" thing didn't upset me since I can actually agree with that.

::shrugs::

It doesn't matter in any respect anyway. Anders isn't my favorite character (never was) but I don't see anything different in his sexuality. He's very obviously different personality-wise. It's a little jarring how different he is personality wise.

[Maugrim]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

That's a great article. It's interesting to hear that Yahtzee had a really good time with the romance because he's mostly critical in his review--but he's PAID to be critical, and his Mass Effect 2 was much the same:

criticism
criticism
criticism
criticism
criticism
oh btw the writing is good
criticism
criticism

Yahtzee has also said this.  And that because of this that pretty much everything he doesn't mention can be assumed decent by default.

[TheBlackBaron]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I honestly thought Anders was gay when I met him in Awakening. It's not until he talks about how he wants a woman that I thought, "Oh ****! He's straight!"

I think it was the earring, blonde hair, and effeminate personality that made me think he was gay mage Alistair.

So the whole, "he's bi now" thing didn't upset me since I can actually agree with that.

Fantasy games have conditioned me to think that all mages, irregardless of their sexuality, are like that. 

It doesn't matter in any respect anyway. Anders isn't my favorite character (never was) but I don't see anything different in his sexuality. He's very obviously different personality-wise. It's a little jarring how different he is personality wise.

I should note that his personality 180, justified as it may be (*dodges fruit*), also annoys me far more than his sudden sexuality. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 06 avril 2011 - 05:28 .

[Demon Velsper]

David Gaider wrote...

I've said before that our telemetry shows more people using this content than many assume-- and the only interpretation to draw from it is that there are more gay players than anyone believes or many people who are not gay themselves are perfectly willing to roleplay it in a game.

And this telemetry is from DA:O? The game that had an achievement/trophy for romancing all characters? I can tell you this much: had the game not required Zevran romance for 100% trophies you would have had at least one less male/male romance in your telemetry.

[mesmerizedish]

makenzieshepard wrote...

There are people who were at my birth, changed my diapers, lived with and helped raise me that did not know I was gay.  A few figured it out, some had to be told. There are some that still don't know, though they may suspect. I guess I'm not believably gay.....<_<

I've paid attention to you for months, and I'm just now finding out that you're gay? The wonders never cease

Demon Velsper wrote...

And this telemetry is from
DA:O? The game that had an achievement/trophy for romancing all
characters? I can tell you this much: had the game not required Zevran
romance for 100% trophies you would have had at least one less male/male
romance in your telemetry.

He's talking about DAII.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 06 avril 2011 - 05:32 .

[Maugrim]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

There are people who were at my birth, changed my diapers, lived with and helped raise me that did not know I was gay.  A few figured it out, some had to be told. There are some that still don't know, though they may suspect. I guess I'm not believably gay.....<_<

I've paid attention to you for months, and I'm just now finding out that you're gay? The wonders never cease

Well, in your estimation am I believably gay?  Should I present my credentials? I've been to a WNBA games just to ogle her and her.  That's gay enough right?

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 06 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[Punahedan]

It's so awesome to see this positive thread in the forums. It makes me happy in ways you can't imagine. ^^

Regarding Anders, the game practically throws you at him (and I do not resent this in the least) because it makes it that much more tragic. It's enthralling, dramatic, and GOOD. There are times where I want to hit Anders, but for the most part, I just want to hold his idiot self forever. I am lucky enough to be able to suspend my foreknowlege in subsequent playthroughs and play in the moment, but I can see how one might be disillusioned. It's telling that it was a powerful enough story that people actually felt betrayed and reluctant to pursue it again. Luckily, the game is still just as complete without the aspect of Romanced Anders and gives you the option to close that avenue.

[Sjofn]

Demon Velsper wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I've said before that our telemetry shows more people using this content than many assume-- and the only interpretation to draw from it is that there are more gay players than anyone believes or many people who are not gay themselves are perfectly willing to roleplay it in a game.

And this telemetry is from DA:O? The game that had an achievement/trophy for romancing all characters? I can tell you this much: had the game not required Zevran romance for 100% trophies you would have had at least one less male/male romance in your telemetry.

Coulda done that romance as a lady, you know. I did the Leliana one as a dude, personally, I like having at least one hot dude involved in my romances. 

[Emperor Iaius I]

I'm not gay, but I might at some point play a male mage who rivalmances Fenris, just for the hell of it. I mean, it seems like it might be funny. Why not? If I were writing literature or making a movie, it'd be pretty dull if the main character was always just me. I don't want to play me. I already play me in real life. I want to play somebody else.

Half the fun of this game is going through different playthroughs and trying new things. Leaving aside all this nonsense about who I'd actually like to romance if I were in the Dragon Age world (lol), I like having different possibilities each time through. That alone makes it worth it. But even if we want to say that the romances represent who we, personally, would want to be involved with--well, fine, I'll have my half of the pizza with my toppings and you'll have your half of the pizza with yours.

Don't like olives? Then don't eat from my side of the pizza! I've never encountered anybody who said "the existence of olives on this pizza offends me on a fundamental level."

[Cutlass Jack]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Don't like olives? Then don't eat from my side of the pizza! I've never encountered anybody who said "the existence of olives on this pizza offends me on a fundamental level."

This offends me on a level I can not possibly express. What if one of your olives comes on my half of the pizza without my consent??

[Maugrim]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Don't like olives? Then don't eat from my side of the pizza! I've never encountered anybody who said "the existence of olives on this pizza offends me on a fundamental level."

Well I wasn't going to bring it up first...

Olives...

[mesmerizedish]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Don't like olives? Then don't eat from my side of the pizza! I've never encountered anybody who said "the existence of olives on this pizza offends me on a fundamental level."

This offends me on a level I can not possibly express. What if one of your olives comes on my half of the pizza without my consent??

Pick it off.

I LOVE THIS METAPHOR.

[mesmerizedish]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Well, in your estimation am I believably gay?  Should I present my credentials? I've been to a WNBA games just to ogle her and her.  That's gay enough right?

I actually laugh at the idea of "believably gay," which I think is the point you're making

It's just not something I ever think about. I may make assumptions, but they never come up again in my mind. I assumed you were straight because of something you said a long time ago about how you were raised in a rather conservative environment, but grew out of those ways of thinking. It seemed to me that you had become a straight friend of the gays. After that, I never thought about it again until your post tonight.

But yes. I believe that you're gay, and you needn't tell me about woman-ogling to convince me

[Emperor Iaius I]

Well, I have to admit that I've never liked sausage on my pizza.

[Statulos]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

I'm not gay, but I might at some point play a male mage who rivalmances Fenris, just for the hell of it. I mean, it seems like it might be funny. Why not? If I were writing literature or making a movie, it'd be pretty dull if the main character was always just me. I don't want to play me. I already play me in real life. I want to play somebody else.

Half the fun of this game is going through different playthroughs and trying new things. Leaving aside all this nonsense about who I'd actually like to romance if I were in the Dragon Age world (lol), I like having different possibilities each time through. That alone makes it worth it. But even if we want to say that the romances represent who we, personally, would want to be involved with--well, fine, I'll have my half of the pizza with my toppings and you'll have your half of the pizza with yours.

Don't like olives? Then don't eat from my side of the pizza! I've never encountered anybody who said "the existence of olives on this pizza offends me on a fundamental level."

Basicaly that is as old as theatre and we can fairly assume that theatre is as long as humankind. When we become others we can observe ourselves from the outside and in doing that, there is always knowledge to be gained.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Well, as far as Western theatre goes, we don't have to make that assumption because the Athenian theatrical tradition developed out of the City Dionysia, which itself was a Lacedaemonian import, etc etc. Given the social element of Greek theatre, whether as a collective ritual or as a public performance, the audience was always effectively part of the show and didn't necessarily become another person or identify with other characters so much as interact with them. So I'd say that theatre as we know it has identifiable origins, and I'd say audience identification with the performers was a Hellenistic (that is, post-classical but pre-imperial) development, along with the genre of the Hellenistic prose romance novel (another work where the reader can identify with the protagonist, this time usually a heroine: see Chaereas and Callirhoe) and the Roman love elegy (where indeed, the author becomes a character though it is cloaked as autobiography; one might see Catullus as the inventor of this genre, though Sappho is among his many inspirations, and it is likely that her work anticipated--by centuries, in fact--both the erotic aspects of elegy as well as the fictional autobiographical elements, as recent scholarship has decisively--though not conclusively--rejected extrapolating a biography from what remains of her oevre).

But this is just the littérateur in me waxing philological . . .

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 06 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[Camilladilla]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Well, I have to admit that I've never liked sausage on my pizza.

Well then you have no taste, because sausage on pizza is the best, especially topped off with mushrooms.

[mesmerizedish]

Camilladilla wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Well, I have to admit that I've never liked sausage on my pizza.

Well then you have no taste, because sausage on pizza is the best, especially topped off with mushrooms.

Ugheww...

I no longer love this metaphor.