15 réponses à ce sujet

[Att3r0]

please when posting name if you are PC / console.
something similar but not realy covering the issue.social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/308/index/6584542


from what i've seen tactic namely -> use current condiction for next tactic wroks good on console
best explained on example

if target elite or higher > use current condition for next tactic
if target of hawke > cast petrify

now what it does on console is : if target is elite and is being targeted by hawke it will cast petrify

an this is how it works on PC
if there exists target on battlefield that is elite it will petrify whomever hawke is targeting (regarless if its normal or elite)

i also tried with skiping tactics and jumping etc ...example

target normal or lower > skip tactics
If target of hawke > petriy ->>>>>>>>> it will always skip the tactic as long as any normal is alive

if target elite or higher -> jump 3
if target ->any skip tactic
if target of hawke -> petrify - will cast petrify on whomever hawke is targeting (as long as an elite is alive)

if target of hawke -> use current condition for next tactis
if target elite of higher > cast petrify -> this one will petrify elite as long as hawke is targeting something  !!

one big fail.

If you have a multicondition tactic working on PC please post how its done.
also some confirmation how the use current condition for next tactics works on consoles  would be nice.

Modifié par Att3r0, 06 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[viverravid]

Your problem is you are mixing targets. Some conditions get the AI to change targets, some don't. Conditions like Enemy: Target of X switch targets. Conditions like Enemy: Rank or Enemy: Status do not switch targets - they apply to the AI's current target.

Enemy: Target of Hawke gets the AI to switch to Hawke's target. So put that first.

Enemy: Target of Hawke -> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target Rank is Elite or Higher -> Petrify

That will work fine. Only Elites currently targeted by Hawke will be Petrified. Doing it the other way around has the AI check if it's current target is Elite, then switch targets when it hits Enemy: Target of Hawke.

Modifié par viverravid, 06 avril 2011 - 05:11 .

[Waltzingbear]

So it will execute if both conditions A and B are met but it will not relate them to the same object like "If A is met on X and B is met on X also".

The fact that Skip Tactics does not use the former condition is understandable.

I don't know at what level it gets broken but from my experience trying to skip tactics with any Enemy condition does not properly skip. For example I've tried many enemy conditions with Merrill and bore success with none such as:
1) Enemy: Any > Skip to --
2) Self: Any > Deactivate: Blood --

This seem to be working fine however:
1) Surrounded by at least three enemies > Jump to 5
2) Enemy: Attacking Aveline > Use current condition for next tactic
3) Enemy: Rank Elite or higher > Jump to 5
4) Self: Health >=50% > Deactivate: Shield Defense
5) --- ---

I'm playing on the PC.

[Att3r0]

@viverravid i did try this way
Enemy: Target of Hawke -> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target Rank is Elite or Higher -> Petrify
and if i enter fight an dont target anything nothing happens , if i target just anything - the elite will get petrified. tried it several times it just doesnt pass the target to next tactic.

@Waltzingbear
this doesnt work but its much harder to realise
i did like this
Enemy: attacking aveline > use current condition for next tactic
enemy: rank elite or higher > cast winter's grasp
and made it so my rogue grab the elite and manualy controled aveline to target some regular enemy. After she got attacked my the regular ( elite was on rogue) the elite got frozen.
So in your case
1) Surrounded by at least three enemies > Jump to 5 - works well if she is surrounder it will jump

2) Enemy: Attacking Aveline > Use current condition for next tactic
3) Enemy: Rank Elite or higher > Jump to 5

it will always jump as long as there is an elite present in fight (doesnt need to target aveline). But it doesnt realy matter for you as you want the elites to attack Aveline eitherway and disabling shield defense for the few seconds when it doesnt target her has no sense.

Modifié par Att3r0, 06 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[Lumikki]

I also have problem to make good rules.
Example this is what I have tryed for Aveline:

1. Self: health < 25% : Use item: Health potion
2. Enemy: Any: Taunt
3. Self: Surrounded at least four enemies: Activate: Immovable
4. Self: Health < 75% : Activate: Shield Defence
5. Self: Being attacked melee or range: Activate: Turn the Blade
6. Self: Any: Rally
7. Self: Mana/stamina < 25% : use ability: second wind
8. Self: Surrounded by no enemies: Deactivate : Immovable
9. Self: Health >= 90% : Deactivate: Shield Defence
10. Self: Health >= 90% : Use current condition to next tactic
11. Self: Surrounded by no enemies: Deactiave: Turn the Blade

Basicly I try to keep Turn the Blade active most of the fight, if health drops, then I try to add Shield Defence to help. If Aveline is surrounded multible enemies, then I activate Immovable. So, basicly more enemies is attacking Aveline, more defence she builds to protection. Of course the rules doesn't prevent abilities switching on and off, when healing happens or enemies aren't around of Aveline. How ever, I haven't invented yet better rules.

I tryed first jump to tactic X, but it did not work at all for some reason. Seem to me that most rules are like try and test type.

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 avril 2011 - 07:09 .

[OhoniX]

So if I'm reading this right, you can't use "Enemy: Target of Hawke" as a conditional, it's a command instead? By that I mean you can't use it to check if they are targeting Hawke's enemy, you can only use it to force them to target Hawke's enemy? I was trying to use the following command to prevent them from kill-stealing from my warrior Hawke, but it sound slike this would just cause them to auto-skip most of the commands, most of the time:

1. Enemy: Target of Hawke (or Player, either works): Jump to Tactic 12
2-10 various other basic tactics
11. Self: Any : jump to tactic 17
12. Enemy: Highest Health: Attack

Now in my experience, this command does work to prevent killstealing, but it does seem like they're less likely to use their other tactics.

I also can't get this one to work at all on Merrill:
3. Self: Health<10 : Jump to Tactic 12
11. Self: Any : jump to tactic 17
12. Ally: Nearest : Stone's Throw

It's meant to cause her to use the abiliy whenever her HP gets too low, but in practice she just uses it as early and often as she possibly can so long as it's active, even though, from how UI think it should work, tactic #12 should never get triggered unless tactic #3 is first.

[AlexMBrennan]

IMHO most tactics are broken anyway. Given how convenient the tactics menu is (change health > 50 condition to health > 25 in only 12 clicks) I'd suggest to use pause instead.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 06 avril 2011 - 08:10 .

[Lumikki]

Would this mean if you test "Enemy: Tarket of Hawke: Jump to tactic 12". You turn you target to hawke, but also jump to tactics 12. Then only situation where it doesn't jump is when Hawke doesn't have target at all? Meaning all rules between 2-11 will be never done?

I can't figure rules how you could prevent targeting same enemies. Because you would have to know what target some companions have. It would require alot of testing. Mostly this is because tactics has not good "not" possiblity. Like "not target of" or "status not". Basicly the inverted options are missing.

You try to suck health from Ally, when health is low?

3. Self: health < 10% : use current condition to next tactic
4. Ally: Nearest visible: use ability: ????

Doesn't this work?

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Att3r0]

@Lumikki you didnt realy tell what you were unable to script. If you want to prevent "dancing" with sustainable you shoul try option "if at least x enemy alive " > skip or if "less then x alive " > use current condition for next tactics.

@OhoniX - nono problem is that "enemey:target of hawke" checks if hawke is targeting something but the target is not getting passed to next tactic by "use current condition for next tactics" . if you sue enemy :target of hawke > attack - then the character will continue attacking whatever hawke is targeting (there is some delay but works)

also it seems that unconditional skips doesnt work. Try using instead of any self:health >= 10% > jump to 17.

EDIT: as to prevent kill stealing it cant be done with current tactics it seems.
1. Enemy: Target of Hawke (or Player, either works): Jump to Tactic 12
2-10 various other basic tactics
11. Self: Any : jump to tactic 17
12. Enemy: Highest Health: Attack

from what i have seen this one will simply cause to jump 12 whenever hawke got target  and it will execute 2-12 only if  hawke doesnt target anything.

Modifié par Att3r0, 06 avril 2011 - 08:39 .

[Lumikki]

My problem is more like how to end defensive "talents". It's easy to say example activate it when there is 4 enemies around somewhere, but how to say, deactive it when there is only 1 left?

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 avril 2011 - 08:28 .

[Att3r0]

use
1 : enemy : alive 3 or more enemies > jump to 3
2 : self : any => deactivate shield defense
3 : rest
should work if it doesnt then try replacing self : any with like self : hp >10% . You need to use jump as skip tactics forces a new tactic round so everything under it is ignored not just next line like i tought

[Att3r0]

bump! hoping for Luke attention

[brazen_nl]

Seconded. Jumping, although a really nice feature, is very iffy imo. (if {} else {} would be awesome.)

[Lumikki]

Att3r0 wrote...

use
1 : enemy : alive 3 or more enemies > jump to 3
2 : self : any => deactivate shield defense
3 : rest
should work if it doesnt then try replacing self : any with like self : hp >10% . You need to use jump as skip tactics forces a new tactic round so everything under it is ignored not just next line like i tought

Thanks, I'm trying something based you suggestion for Aveline.

1 : Enemy : rank elite of higher : jump to tactic 7
2 : Self : Surrounded no enemies : deactivate : Immovable
3 : Enemy : alive 5 or more enemies : jump to tactic 7
4 : Self : Health >= 75% : deactivate : Shield defence
5 : Enemy : alive 3 or more enemies : jump tactics 7
6 : Self : Surrounded no enemies : deactivate : Turn the Blade
7 :

So basicly If there is "elite or higher enemies" in the battlefield, I don't deactivate any defence.

How ever, if there is only normals and lower enemies, then it doesn't matter how many, I will deactive Immovable if there isn't enough of them surrounding Aveline. Mostly because this defence is based how many hits Aveline takes.  Now when enemies numbers drops to 4 normal or lower, I will deactiave the Shield defence, if Avelines health is higher enough.  When there is only 2 or less enemies left and none of them are surrounded by Aveline, I also deactivate Turn the Blades. Does this kind of rules make any sense?

Modifié par Lumikki, 06 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[OhoniX]

from what i have seen this one will simply cause to jump 12 whenever hawke got target and it will execute 2-12 only if hawke doesnt target anything.

That's a real bummer, it actually does work really well to prevent kill stealing, but means that most of the time they won't use anything other than auto-attack. They really weren't thinking it through when they made Warriors so dependent on killing things, when the rest of your party is so determined to "help."

[Att3r0]

@Lumikki looks good , however like always you never know if game will work as you want until you cjeck. the one flow there is that as long as any elite is alive non of the defences will get deactivated.
You maybe should put the deactivate imovable before it or just manualy take care of disabling if she would be slowed to 0.