75 réponses à ce sujet

[CyberSnakeME2]

So I finished the game 3 times now and got the dlc for Sebastian and from what I read, at the end when you choose to kill Anders or not, it says that if you dont Sebastian leaves, so I wanted to ask that even if you have full friendship/rivalry, is there no way to everyone to the final quest?

I mean, as much of douchbag Anders I always think "Killing him is too much of a quick getaway" so I drag him with me everytime, so yeah, I want to know if its possible to get Sebastian to go with us even if I spare Anders.

[surfgirlusa_2006]

Not as far as I know. Even if you side with the tempars but spare Anders initially, Sebastian leaves.

[Tigerking]

Nope, you can't have both. Either Anders is dead or Sebastian goes all pissy and swears his revenge on everybody.

[FreyaWazHere]

Nope, you can't even if you've romance Sebastian and have him maxed friendship, if you choose to keep Anders in your party, he's all '**** Ima bring an army back here.' *leaves*

[CyberSnakeME2]

Huh.... Well for a brother of Chantry the man is very pissy, thought he be more forgiving than that.
I think Elthina said something about Sebastian leaving again in another outburst of injustice or something, well guess Anders is going.
*Sighs* This guy really lost his so-called charm, that much I´ll say.

[errant_knight]

It's the Alistair/Loghain moment all over again and Sebastian draws the same kind of line in the sand. Anders has killed the people that Sebastian cares about and considers his surrogate family. The Chantry is his home and the Grand Cleric is his Duncan. Anders destroys both, along with all the other people living there, and presumably anyone living within the vicinity.

We know from the quest when we meet him that Sebastian considers the only possible punishment for the murder of family to be death. He can't tolerate sparing their murderer any more than he can let the Flint Company get away with murdering his birth family.

While I regreted that there was no way to free Anders from Justice, it wasn't a hard decision to make for me. Once he blew up the Chantry, it was too late for that, even if it had been possible. Any qualms I had were residual warden feelings over having to kill a friend from Awakening, not Hawke's feelings about dealing with an abomination who started a bloodbath that he'd been working to avert for ten years.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 avril 2011 - 02:53 .

[CyberSnakeME2]

Hmm... Good point had forgotten that, if you look at that way its is Alistair/Loghain expect its the other way round now, I like him from awakening always took him with me too see what he would say next, saw him comeback in DA2 was excited, got to met since then and he dissapoints me greatly, personallaty wise though as a fighter hes still very good to, reason why I saved his sorry semi-demon self.

When I first saw him going terroist on the chantry:
*Chantry goes BOOM!*
"Bloody Hell in a bottle!"
"What the?! I knew this is why he wanted me to go there, your lucky Im a nice guy and let you live 3 times"

[errant_knight]

CyberSnakeME2 wrote...

Hmm... Good point had forgotten that, if you look at that way its is Alistair/Loghain expect its the other way round now, I like him from awakening always took him with me too see what he would say next, saw him comeback in DA2 was excited, got to met since then and he dissapoints me greatly, personallaty wise though as a fighter hes still very good to, reason why I saved his sorry semi-demon self.

When I first saw him going terroist on the chantry:
*Chantry goes BOOM!*
"Bloody Hell in a bottle!"
"What the?! I knew this is why he wanted me to go there, your lucky Im a nice guy and let you live 3 times"

Yeah, I know. It's very disappointing. I was really looking forward to fun times with Anders, but he really wasn't Anders anymore, just what was left of him, and that was pretty sad.

[CyberSnakeME2]

True, you might say killing him is just satisfaction of sorts, so much for the preching of Justice.
Boy, this sure makes DBZ´s theory of Fusion really suck >_>

[Bekkael]

Eh, that end scene with his big rant actually made me hate Sebastian. In my current playthrough, I take every opportunity to ****** him off...sanctimonious prig. Chaste marriage?! Are you a sicko, or what? <_<

Of course, on my next go-around, I plan to (finally) side with the Templars, so Seb will probably stay for the end battle...maybe. I just hate killing Anders. I did it once just for the Templar achievement, but then reloaded. Guess I'm smitten.

[errant_knight]

CyberSnakeME2 wrote...

True, you might say killing him is just satisfaction of sorts, so much for the preching of Justice.
Boy, this sure makes DBZ´s theory of Fusion really suck >_>

I was thinking about what Anders says about Karl before killing him--that he'd want someone to do that for him. He was talking about being made tranquil and not being an abomination, but I can't help but think that we're being invited to draw a parallel. I'm not sure I think that keeping Anders alive does him any favors, or if Awakening Anders would even want to live as what he is now.

[CyberSnakeME2]

Yeah, Sebastian is the type of person with an "unshackable" faith that gets de-railled quite easy, I like the guy but he needs really to decide if hes going east or west cuz I aint telling him every detail, really why is it always Hawke to the rescue?

Anders said it himself, really, how can he preach "FREEDOM FOR MAGES!!ARGH!!" when he himself is the very thing Hawke daily goes round killing? Hawke says it "Someday, I would like to go a week without meeting an insane mage, just one week."

Modifié par CyberSnakeME2, 06 avril 2011 - 03:41 .

[Zjarcal]

errant_knight wrote...
I'm not sure I think that keeping Anders alive does him any favors, or if Awakening Anders would even want to live as what he is now.

Hmm, that's actually an interesting point. It's evident that Anders is carrying so much baggage by the end and that he is so willing to die for his cause, that killing him may indeed be seen as the truly merciful act.

Still, I can't bring myself to do it, even if I totally disapprove of what he did.

Plus, I like watching Sebastian's declaration of war. 

[errant_knight]

Suicide by Hawke as a side benefit? Maybe.
I'm kind of the opposite. I can't bring myself not to do it. In fact, I had an unpleasant feeling that I should be doing it from the moment I met Vengence. If we'd been allowed to, I probably would have. He's basically Uldred with more self control.

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 avril 2011 - 03:53 .

[Eollodwyn]

If I recall correctly, Hepler said that she likes to think that a part of Anders was indeed hoping you would kill him, and one of his banters with Isabela kinda confirms it.  I can never bring myself to do it, though.  Guess I'm just not that selfless. 

[errant_knight]

That's interesting to know. What does he say to Isabella?

[Zjarcal]

Eollodwyn wrote...

If I recall correctly, Hepler said that she likes to think that a part of Anders was indeed hoping you would kill him, and one of his banters with Isabela kinda confirms it.  I can never bring myself to do it, though.  Guess I'm just not that selfless. 

I do remember Hepler saying that, although I don't recall anything about the banter. Although this one seems ominous...

• Anders: There is justice in the world.
• Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.
• Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?
• Anders: Yes.
• Isabela: And then what? Where does it end?
• Isabela: It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started.
• Isabela: Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 06 avril 2011 - 08:02 .

[vocalemuse]

Honestly, the only thing that bothered me about killing Anders is when he says something like, "Kill me then, I can't wait to die and be a martyr for mages!" I don't remember verbatim, but my Hawke was rivals with him so that maybe affected it.

I sat there for a minute and almost didn't do it just to spite his ass, but I didn't want to lose Seb. xD

But seriously Anders... wtf? x_x

Modifié par vocalemuse, 06 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Oloria]

Yes I think killing Anders is actually the "merciful" option. It's at least the option that Anders seems to want unless Hawke offers his/her support even after his final action in Act 3.

So far I've spared Anders because my Hawke concluded death was an easy way out for him that he did not deserve. He should at least live long enough to see the consequences. She also feared that his immediate execution would make him a martyr for his cause.

[YourFunnyUncle]

On Monday I finished my first playthrough as a female rogue who romanced Anders and even helped him to distract the Grand Cleric despite serious misgivings. I decided that she couldn't bring herself to kill him but she told him to bugger off. To be honest having that god-bothering idiot Sebastian leave was actually a bonus. (Not that he's a badly written character, but I couldn't stand him.)

After telling him in no uncertain terns to leave it was rather surprising to see Anders come back with the intention of joining in the final battle so I had my Hawke tell him to sod off again. It came as rather a shock then to hear Varric claim at the end that they were still together. I hope that oversight gets fixed in a future patch...

I've just started a playthrough as a male mage (see avatar) and I can't see him being so merciful to that idiotic terrorist of an abomination.

[Threeparts]

Let's not forget some of the first words we hear Elthina say to Sebastian: "Death is never justice." She never wanted him to kill anyone in revenge for his family's death, yet now he threatens to bring an army down on an entire city based on Hawke's decision.

Isn't it nice to know that Sebastian is howling with grief over a woman whose teachings he obviously never actually bothered to listen to?

Preachy little ****.

[Inzhuna]

vocalemuse wrote...

Honestly, the only thing that bothered me about killing Anders is when he says something like, "Kill me then, I can't wait to die and be a martyr for mages!" I don't remember verbatim, but my Hawke was rivals with him so that maybe affected it.

I sat there for a minute and almost didn't do it just to spite his ass, but I didn't want to lose Seb. xD

But seriously Anders... wtf? x_x

Gah, I know. I hated that. 'The sooner I die the sooner my name can become a rallying cry for mages across Thedas'. I really wanted to kick him in the head for that. >_<

[nos_astra]

Threeparts wrote...
Let's not forget some of the first words we hear Elthina say to Sebastian: "Death is never justice." She never wanted him to kill anyone in revenge for his family's death, yet now he threatens to bring an army down on an entire city based on Hawke's decision.

And Sebastian disagrees with her. Obviously he has a mind of his own, even if he does respect Elthina.

Also, it's just words. He's not in a position to attack anyone at that point, because if he were, Hawke would be an utter idiot to ignore the threat ... or a massive ****** for risking the well-being of the Kirkwall citizens for selfish reasons.

Threeparts wrote...
Isn't it nice to know that Sebastian is howling with grief over a woman whose teachings he obviously never actually bothered to listen to?

What's you point? Because Sebastian doesn't agree with Elthina, he's not allowed to mourn her death and hate you for letting her murderer go ... or worse, support her murderer?

Modifié par klarabella, 06 avril 2011 - 10:55 .

[Eollodwyn]

Zjarcal wrote...

Eollodwyn wrote...

If I recall correctly, Hepler said that she likes to think that a part of Anders was indeed hoping you would kill him, and one of his banters with Isabela kinda confirms it.  I can never bring myself to do it, though.  Guess I'm just not that selfless. 

I do remember Hepler saying that, although I don't recall anything about the banter. Although this one seems ominous...

• Anders: There is justice in the world.
• Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.
• Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?
• Anders: Yes.
• Isabela: And then what? Where does it end?
• Isabela: It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started.
• Isabela: Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world.

That was exactly the one I was talking about.  It's not a blatant "I want to die," but it certainly gave me pause.  In my game in particular it came after he had already planted the bomb, so hearing it just broke my heart.

You could of course interpret that banter differently, but I think it points to his wanting to die for his crime.

Threeparts wrote...

Let's not forget some of the first words we hear Elthina say to
Sebastian: "Death is never justice." She never wanted him to kill anyone
in revenge for his family's death, yet now he threatens to bring an
army down on an entire city based on Hawke's decision.

Isn't it
nice to know that Sebastian is howling with grief over a woman whose
teachings he obviously never actually bothered to listen to?

Preachy little ****.

As much as I hate Sebastian, I feel that's a little unfair.  He really loved this woman and she had just been murdered and his home blown to bits by a man he knew reasonably well.  His outburst, while hypocritical, was more than understandable.  Honestly, if he had simply accepted what Anders did and not stormed off, I would have less respect for him.

Though I did laugh myself silly over his asking my Hawke if she would have spared Anders if Sebastian himself had been in the Chantry...

[errant_knight]

How is it hypocritical? It's exactly the same as what he thought should happen to the mercenaries. He's never said or done any different. You might not agree with him, but there's no hypocrisy there. He didn't agree with Elthethia about the Flint Company, much as he respected her, and he won't agree if you spare Anders. It's entirely consistant.