50 réponses à ce sujet

[ThePasserby]

David Gaider wrote...

That's my view, yes. The bar seems to fluctuate between two dollars and maybe three-fifty. Any more than that and the editors start sending me polite little notes asking what variety of glue I'm on.

But ... is certitude really that hard a word for the average gamer to grasp? Anyway, not being in the editing business, I can't really say I have my finger on the pulse of the average American's vocabulary range. Especially when I was born and bred in Asia.

Technically I do, but ultimately I need to contend with QA and Editing when it comes to disagreements on whether the established bar has been exceeded. For me, I'm okay with a slightly more complex word so long as it actually means something different than the simpler one and doesn't sound like we spent too much time on Thesaurus.com.

In other words, if the folks in QA and Editing don't know the word, they're sending it right back to you. Gotcha

[PantheraOnca]

$20 words please. Also, who came up with the exchange rate?

[ThePasserby]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Postmodern ideas center around the idea of reality being a social construct, not a personal one.

Ok, with no intention of this thread going the route of a dry, philosophical debate removed from the game, I do have to say that, since objective reality is irrelevant to a postmodernist, and reality is but a social construct, wouldn't this socially constructed reality ulitmately collapse into a personal one? Afterall, society is composed of individuals, and society is seldom homogenous, but rather, made up of sub-groups and sub-sub-groups and so on.

Anyway, I welcome your reply, but I probably won't press the point any further, as this is beyond the scope of the thread.

[Maria Caliban]

PantheraOnca wrote...

$20 words please. Also, who came up with the exchange rate?

Logophile argentarii

[Maria Caliban]

ThePasserby wrote...

... since objective reality is irrelevant to a postmodernist, and reality is but a social construct, wouldn't this socially constructed reality ultimately collapse into a personal one?

No.

That's akin to suggesting that since reality is only known through the senses and a the senses are personal, realism will ultimately collapse into empiricism which will ultimately collapse into solipsism. Unless you're attempting to make an argument that the solipsistic viewpoint is right and intelligent thought will always lead to it, you can't simply ignore what various philosophies *actually say* in favor of a couple ideas you just came up with on how they might work.

[ThePasserby]

Maria Caliban wrote...


No.

That's akin to suggesting that since reality is only known through the senses and a the senses are personal, realism will ultimately collapse into empiricism which will ultimately collapse into solipsism. Unless you're attempting to make an argument that the solipsistic viewpoint is right and intelligent thought will always lead to it, you can't simply ignore what various philosophies *actually say* in favor of a couple ideas you just came up with on how they might work.

Alright, that's fine. As I said, I'm not pursuing this any further. I've never been much interested in postmodernist thought based on the little that I know of it. I'm old-fashioned.

[PantheraOnca]

Google comes through again. Is there even an actual word that would come to $20? MAAAAAYBE some elaborate chemical compound name?

...

I just answered my own question, 77 letters is the shortest possible "word" for $20, but only if that "word" is the sound of someone snoring.

[Wulfram]

ThePasserby wrote...

But ... is certitude really that hard a word for the average gamer to grasp? Anyway, not being in the editing business, I can't really say I have my finger on the pulse of the average American's vocabulary range. Especially when I was born and bred in Asia.

I an not an average gamer, but a highly intelligent gamer, with english as my first language, and I would not have been able to make the distinction between certitude and certainty before reading this thread

[ThePasserby]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Google comes through again. Is there even an actual word that would come to $20? MAAAAAYBE some elaborate chemical compound name?

...

I just answered my own question, 77 letters is the shortest possible "word" for $20, but only if that "word" is the sound of someone snoring.

The longest word I know that is not a technical word is "antidisestablishmentarianism", and given that DA2 has strong political themes, using this word in the game wouldn't actually be too out of place, if the editors and QA deem this word cheap enough.

Anders would be a disestablishmentarian, very loosely applied to Thedas' political climate ...

[ThePasserby]

Wulfram wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...

But ... is certitude really that hard a word for the average gamer to grasp? Anyway, not being in the editing business, I can't really say I have my finger on the pulse of the average American's vocabulary range. Especially when I was born and bred in Asia.

I an not an average gamer, but a highly intelligent gamer, with english as my first language, and I would not have been able to make the distinction between certitude and certainty before reading this thread

But now that you do, wouldn't you like to be able to spit the word "certitude" at the Arishok's face? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

So basically you could just say "rebel" instead... Long words are not a sign of sophistication, but boredom.

[ThePasserby]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So basically you could just say "rebel" instead... Long words are not a sign of sophistication, but boredom.

Being a rebel and being a disestablishmentarian is not the same. You can be a rebel and also an antidisestablishmentarian.

[Paeyne]

I think it is a shame that literacy has fallen to such a degree.

It seems strange that it would, given how much time many of us spend typing and communicating to each other over the Internet.

I suppose, given the nature of forums and emails, that an abridged short-hand to communication was inevitable.

Ah well. I learned a new word today: 'Mendicant'. I am happy.

[Paraxial]

lol i dunt evun undustnd what ya'll is talkin about

<It's sher@mie:)>

[PsychoBlonde]

David Gaider wrote...

Technically I do, but ultimately I need to contend with QA and Editing when it comes to disagreements on whether the established bar has been exceeded. For me, I'm okay with a slightly more complex word so long as it actually means something different than the simpler one and doesn't sound like we spent too much time on Thesaurus.com.

You should use whatever words are appropriate to the character.  Some people are sesquepedalian pedants.  Some seem to communicate largely by grunting.

Just remember when the pedant hoves into view and the player is sitting there going "WTF does that even MEAN?", you need to give the CHARACTER the option of saying "WTF does that even MEAN?!" and lo, immersion.

[PsychoBlonde]

Paeyne wrote...

I think it is a shame that literacy has fallen to such a degree.

It has not.  A far larger proportion of the population is literate now than, say, 100 years ago.  This means that a far larger PROPORTION of literate people aren't worthless snobs with nothing better to do with their time than go to Salon and conjugate Latin verbs.

[ThePasserby]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

You should use whatever words are appropriate to the character.  Some people are sesquepedalian pedants.  Some seem to communicate largely by grunting.

Just remember when the pedant hoves into view and the player is sitting there going "WTF does that even MEAN?", you need to give the CHARACTER the option of saying "WTF does that even MEAN?!" and lo, immersion.

They did it in ME2, actually. Thane mentioned solipsism when talking about the dangers of having eidetic memory, and Shepard can ask what it means.

[PantheraOnca]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
 conjugate Latin verbs.

You know you love it when someone plays with your tenses.

Modifié par PantheraOnca, 06 avril 2011 - 07:16 .

[ThePasserby]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

conjugate Latin verbs.

Dunno about latin verbs, but my Hawke and Isabela do alot of conjugating. Does that count?

[PsychoBlonde]

ThePasserby wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

You should use whatever words are appropriate to the character.  Some people are sesquepedalian pedants.  Some seem to communicate largely by grunting.

Just remember when the pedant hoves into view and the player is sitting there going "WTF does that even MEAN?", you need to give the CHARACTER the option of saying "WTF does that even MEAN?!" and lo, immersion.

They did it in ME2, actually. Thane mentioned solipsism when talking about the dangers of having eidetic memory, and Shepard can ask what it means.

Really?  Solipsism = believing things you made up are true and/or real, yes?  You don't have to have an eidetic memory for this to be a problem.  I can "remember" things that never happened (but were similar to things that happened) because I produced a mental construct of the event.  Tiresome.

I would imagine that if one has perfect eidetic memory (everyone has SOME eidetic memory), it becomes even harder to distinguish between one's mental constructs and actual events, because mental constructs would seem incredibly accurate and present, just like real memories.

[Giltspur]

Mendicant is a $5 word now? In a fantasy game?

Ah well, I guess you have to use more spartan language these days.

[ThePasserby]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Really?  Solipsism = believing things you made up are true and/or real, yes?  You don't have to have an eidetic memory for this to be a problem.  I can "remember" things that never happened (but were similar to things that happened) because I produced a mental construct of the event.  Tiresome.

I would imagine that if one has perfect eidetic memory (everyone has SOME eidetic memory), it becomes even harder to distinguish between one's mental constructs and actual events, because mental constructs would seem incredibly accurate and present, just like real memories.

One meaning of "solipsism" is the belief that the self is the only reality. No one else exists. In the case of Thane's species, because their memories are so vivid and real, they have a tendency to live in their memories instead. This is especially so when their present circumstances are too tough for them to handle, hence the comfort of retreating into their memories. When they do that, the outside world does not matter to them anymore, hence the solipsism reference.

[Statulos]

David Gaider wrote...

ThePasserby wrote...
Not that Bioware has to take up the cause of enriching its players' vocabulary, but perhaps using words that cost, say, 2 dollars won't be so bad?

That's my view, yes. The bar seems to fluctuate between two dollars and maybe three-fifty. Any more than that and the editors start sending me polite little notes asking what variety of glue I'm on.

Who decides what words are too hard, anyway?

Technically I do, but ultimately I need to contend with QA and Editing when it comes to disagreements on whether the established bar has been exceeded. For me, I'm okay with a slightly more complex word so long as it actually means something different than the simpler one and doesn't sound like we spent too much time on Thesaurus.com.

Glue? Is your salary really THAT bad?

As a non-native user of English language, I think you guys could go for a more elaborate use of language if you want to. I mean, this is an M rated game and adult does not only mean sex and violence, I guess comprehension and cultural knowledge should be in the pack too.

[ThePasserby]

Statulos wrote...


Glue? Is your salary really THAT bad?

As a non-native user of English language, I think you guys could go for a more elaborate use of language if you want to. I mean, this is an M rated game and adult does not only mean sex and violence, I guess comprehension and cultural knowledge should be in the pack too.

Games can be a useful source for broadening one's vocabulary, especially if one does not read much, as long as it is not done too blatantly.

Like Psychoblonde mentioned and as it was done in ME2, characters can talk about something and the player is given a chance to have his character ask what that means. But not too often, as it will turn into some kind of children's learn-a-new-word-a-day game.

[Statulos]

ThePasserby wrote...

Statulos wrote...


Glue? Is your salary really THAT bad?

As a non-native user of English language, I think you guys could go for a more elaborate use of language if you want to. I mean, this is an M rated game and adult does not only mean sex and violence, I guess comprehension and cultural knowledge should be in the pack too.

Games can be a useful source for broadening one's vocabulary, especially if one does not read much, as long as it is not done too blatantly.

Like Psychoblonde mentioned and as it was done in ME2, characters can talk about something and the player is given a chance to have his character ask what that means. But not too often, as it will turn into some kind of children's learn-a-new-word-a-day game.

That´s my point. As long as you don´t get too local or use slang from particular areas, I´m perfectly fine with tier 1 language. I mean, I was able to follow the Poetree in Origins.

Well, maybe I´m not a good example since I´m doing a Ph.D. in a humanities field, but still...