186 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Anders' fault is mitigated by the demon inside him.
Yes, demon. Justice himself said demons are spirits corrupted by their desires, which is what happened to him. Vengeance is a demon.

[Camenae]

I didn't say it was comparable. I just meant it doesn't really matter what Merrill does, people will still think she's cute and love her. Certainly I think they'd forgive her for way more things than they would Anders, yes because she is a cute girl and he's a grown man. Just an observation in the sad-but-true category.

[PlumPaul93]

Merrils a moron who gives ridiculous rivalry if you disagree with her I approve of the OP's message (PS i max friended her but still...).

[A Forgotten Tome]

The Angry One wrote...

I don't see how it's comparable.

Merril wants to recover technology, causing outrage among a bunch of blockheads who's stated purpose in life includes recovering that technology.
Is it really Merril's fault that the Dalish are a bunch of lying cowards?

Anders on the other hand blew up innocent people to start a war, because he's an abomination.

Merill never did anything like that, the incident atop Sundermount was not her fault, and outside of being provoked I can't think of an instance where she actually harmed someone, she did turn on me in the fade but I can accept that, a spirit got to her.

Down with the Templars!

[DarthChicken]

I kinda wished that Fenris would get tired of his and Merril's party banter and rip her heart out of her chest......and then let Anders go all Vengeance-y and eat it.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Angry One wrote...

Anders on the other hand blew up innocent people to start a war, because he's an abomination.

No, He blew up innocent people because he's an idiot.

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

I didn't say it was comparable. I just meant it doesn't really matter what Merrill does, people will still think she's cute and love her. Certainly I think they'd forgive her for way more things than they would Anders, yes because she is a cute girl and he's a grown man. Just an observation in the sad-but-true category.

Perhaps that's the attitude with some.. that's certainly the case with Tali. *dodges bullet*
Did I mention Tali fans are scary?

My point was it certainly isn't the only reason.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Anders on the other hand blew up innocent people to start a war, because he's an abomination.

No, He blew up innocent people because he's an idiot.

I refuse to accept Anders is that unsalvagable and therefore blame the abomination.
Yes it's his own fault for stupidly agreeing to merge with Justice in the first place but still.

Modifié par The Angry One, 06 avril 2011 - 02:36 .

[TobiTobsen]

Why would somebody kill poor Merrill? Thats just like killing a bunch of poor kittens. Welsh kittens. Welsh kittens that cut themself with their little adorable claws to practice blood magic. But nevertheless kittens.

[Rifneno]

The Angry One wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The Angry One wrote...
In DA2 if you are a mage and unless your name happens to be Bethany there's a 99.9% chance you are a blood mage.

Yeah, that tends to happen when a bunch of zealots lock you in demon central.

Because the only free mage nation in the world is not at all dominated by blood magic.
Owait.

You see, this is why I don't really debate with you.  One moment you're arguing that Merrill is innocent because it's just her clan being stupid (and making a good case for it, BTW).  The next you're saying the Circle is necessary because of all those bad bad blood mages (not so much).  You don't even believe in the side you're taking at a given time.  But it's not belligerent enough to be trying to troll either.  Strange.  Ahh well.  You should be a lawyer.  ...  Not sure if that's a compliment or an insult.

Camenae wrote...

Haha Merrill is just proof that as long as someone is good enough at batting their eyelashes and pouting and acting cute, people mostly guys would forgive them anything. If Anders switched causes with Merrill I bet people would be like Anders you're crazy! And Merrill is the cutest terrorist ever!

Completely agree.  Cute girls can get away with anything as long as the judge is an average man.  Despite internet flaming implications, that fact has nothing to do with whether he's "getting any" either.  I wish more of us would stop and ask, "which head am I thinking with?" in situations that call for it.  It really works better in the long run.

AshenEndemion wrote...

Somehow I think that if Merrill and Anders switched causes, Merrill would still be as honest as she is, and Anders would still be the liar he is.

The biggest problem people have with Anders isn't that he did it.  It's that he didn't trust Hawke enough to say "Hey, I'm going to blow **** up and start a war.  You with me?"

He only lies once in the entire game that I can think of, the situation you're talking about with the Chantry.  And he lies as little as possible when you consider the set-in-stone plot.  Right after you get the ingredients for him if you ask him he'll admit there was never a potion and apologize for lying but say he's doing what he feels has to be done.  He says after it happens that he thought Hawke would feel honor-bound to stop him.  And generally speaking, he's right.  In short, the plot REQUIRES him to blow it up so in turn it REQUIRES him to lie to Hawke about the potion.  It's pretty contrived but I don't blame someone for telling a single lie especially when the plot says he pretty much has to.  I'm sure you'll argue that, but answer this:  Didn't he do enough wrong that one lie isn't worth caring much about?

[The Angry One]

Rifneno wrote...

You see, this is why I don't really debate with you.  One moment you're arguing that Merrill is innocent because it's just her clan being stupid (and making a good case for it, BTW).  The next you're saying the Circle is necessary because of all those bad bad blood mages (not so much).  You don't even believe in the side you're taking at a given time.  But it's not belligerent enough to be trying to troll either.  Strange.  Ahh well.  You should be a lawyer.  ...  Not sure if that's a compliment or an insult.

Devil's advocate (I mean with the Chantry/Templars).
And my point was in this case that if you're going to hate blood mages for being blood mages then you're going to have to hate virtually every mage in DA2, and Tevinter just proves that the oppression excuse is just that.

Modifié par The Angry One, 06 avril 2011 - 02:40 .

[aox_general]

Merrill is a whiny little child with freakishly large eyes. I'm happy you want to kill her. You should do that and post a video for us to enjoy.

[Annie_Dear]

Am I the only one who doesn't hate anyone of Hawke's companions?  I mean, sure, sometimes they get on my nerves, but to want to kill someone?

Modifié par Annie_Dear, 06 avril 2011 - 02:57 .

[AshenEndymion]

Rifneno wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Somehow I think that if Merrill and Anders switched causes, Merrill would still be as honest as she is, and Anders would still be the liar he is.

The biggest problem people have with Anders isn't that he did it.  It's that he didn't trust Hawke enough to say "Hey, I'm going to blow **** up and start a war.  You with me?"

He only lies once in the entire game that I can think of, the situation you're talking about with the Chantry.  And he lies as little as possible when you consider the set-in-stone plot.  Right after you get the ingredients for him if you ask him he'll admit there was never a potion and apologize for lying but say he's doing what he feels has to be done.  He says after it happens that he thought Hawke would feel honor-bound to stop him.  And generally speaking, he's right.  In short, the plot REQUIRES him to blow it up so in turn it REQUIRES him to lie to Hawke about the potion.  It's pretty contrived but I don't blame someone for telling a single lie especially when the plot says he pretty much has to.  I'm sure you'll argue that, but answer this:  Didn't he do enough wrong that one lie isn't worth caring much about?

Seeing as how Hawke doesn't have to even get the materials for Anders at all (because Hawke isn't required to have Anders in their party in Act 3), the game does NOT require Anders to lie to Hawke.

And it is not one lie.  Not if one believes in lies of omission....

Modifié par AshenEndemion, 06 avril 2011 - 02:52 .

[Kohaku]

@The Angry One - I agree. Almost every mage in the game is a blood mage. It almost makes it harder for me to side with them because everyone of them (outside of Bethany and maybe to a lesser extent Anders) is out to get you anyway with blood magic. It wasn't hard to side with the mages in DA:O but here it's a test of just being nice and sympathetic because what the templars are doing to them isn't right.

On topic. I don't wish her dead but every time I help her with the mirror I just shake my head. I don't know if she's right or the clan is but you knew no one was coming out of that situation alive. I knew it going into the quest the first time.

I did kind of wish Carver dead until I finished my mage playthrough and he totally stood up to Meredith for me. That redeemed him so much in my eyes. That's my bro!

[Tainan7509]

I have already hate Merrill since the beginning. Never take her comments seriously. She is blinded by blood magic so put her to death is at least i can do for her goods.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Camenae wrote...

Haha Merrill is just proof that as long as someone is good enough at batting their eyelashes and pouting and acting cute, people mostly guys would forgive them anything. If Anders switched causes with Merrill I bet people would be like Anders you're crazy! And Merrill is the cutest terrorist ever!

Not really... 

[Camenae]

Of course you'd think not really. In fact that's part of the power of cute girls, to make you think that you don't agree with them just because they're cute girls, but for very logical reasons! Of course sometimes there ARE logical reasons, but that doesn't mean the "cute girl!!!" thing wasn't part or it.

Fact is if Merrill were a big dude I doubt nearly as many people would find her as sympathetic.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Camenae wrote...

Of course you'd think not really. In fact that's part of the power of cute girls, to make you think that you don't agree with them just because they're cute girls, but for very logical reasons! Of course sometimes there ARE logical reasons, but that doesn't mean the "cute girl!!!" thing wasn't part or it.

Fact is if Merrill were a big dude I doubt nearly as many people would find her as sympathetic.

Some dudes can be made to look as young and naive-looking as Merrill ( I'm just saying it can be done ). These types of characters evoke sympathy more often perhaps, but they're not limited to females only.

Are women like Merrill more likely to get sympathy from guys than others? I'd say yes, but that's not always the case, especially if you're considered a terrorist and danger to society.

Modifié par JabbaDaHutt30, 06 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[The Angry One]

Camenae wrote...

Of course you'd think not really. In fact that's part of the power of cute girls, to make you think that you don't agree with them just because they're cute girls, but for very logical reasons! Of course sometimes there ARE logical reasons, but that doesn't mean the "cute girl!!!" thing wasn't part or it.

Fact is if Merrill were a big dude I doubt nearly as many people would find her as sympathetic.

I'm 90... 75... 50% immune to the charms of cute girls and I for one say that Merril's cause does at least give her the benefit of the doubt. Even if she had Stroud's model. And nothing turns me off more than that. Blarg.

[Orion34]

Merrill is somewhat tolerable in the very beginning. Yet the moment you disagree with her,hell even question her, she throws a tantrum. I refused to give her that tool she needed to fix the mirror. And after seeing the ending to her quest on youtube I'd say that is the best decision to go with,since things don't go according to her plans (surprise,surprise).

[Rifneno]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Of course you'd think not really. In fact that's part of the power of cute girls, to make you think that you don't agree with them just because they're cute girls, but for very logical reasons! Of course sometimes there ARE logical reasons, but that doesn't mean the "cute girl!!!" thing wasn't part or it.

Fact is if Merrill were a big dude I doubt nearly as many people would find her as sympathetic.

Some dudes can be made to look as young and naive-looking as Merrill ( I'm just saying it can be done ). These types of characters evoke sympathy more often perhaps, but they're not limited to females only.

I doubt this.  Take this study for instance.  Cliff notes: being around women they're attracted was shown to make men stupid in a scientific study.  When the study was tried in reverse, testing women around attractive men, the same effect was not found.  I think their theories on why this happens are pretty stupid (men are shallow and women aren't?  <Sten> No. </Sten>  Women are just shallow for money and power instead), but it's hard to deny the findings.

Granted, sympathy isn't the same thing as loss of intelligence/focus but it does show men and women have different basic biological reactions to "cute."

[Arppis]

So if you would meet a friendly person who would have lived his whole life in jungles and just came to the city. You would love to kill it because it doesn't know what's going on in the city and what are their habits?

"YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT MY CULTURE! I AM ANGRY! DIE!"

And if this is about the mirror part? She's doing it because she thinks she can help her people out.

[AshenEndymion]

Orion34 wrote...

Merrill is somewhat tolerable in the very beginning. Yet the moment you disagree with her,hell even question her, she throws a tantrum. I refused to give her that tool she needed to fix the mirror. And after seeing the ending to her quest on youtube I'd say that is the best decision to go with,since things don't go according to her plans (surprise,surprise).

And the bolded is different in Anders' case(or in the case of any other companion, really), how?

[The Angry One]

Orion34 wrote...

Merrill is somewhat tolerable in the very beginning. Yet the moment you disagree with her,hell even question her, she throws a tantrum. I refused to give her that tool she needed to fix the mirror.

Yeah you say you'll help her get a tool, then play keep-away.
This would upset anyone.

And after seeing the ending to her quest on youtube I'd say that is the best decision to go with,since things don't go according to her plans (surprise,surprise).

They don't go according to her plans because others interfere and mess it up.
I am very unforgiving of personal stupidity, and I'm just not seeing it here. The tragedies that occur around Merril are almost entirely due to the overreaction of others.
Also, spoilers, this happens regardless of whether you give her the tool or not.

[nicethugbert]

I wish every game company would do everything possible to ****** off the sociopaths and homophobes.