215 réponses à ce sujet

[Zkyire]

Mesina2 wrote...

randName wrote...

Tripedius wrote...

3 girls? So who is the third one?

Aveline
I assume, you can flirt with her, it just won't go anywhere. (she will
kiss you, and ask what would have happened if they had gotten together).

SHE'LL KISS YOU?!


I flirted with her and I never got a kiss!

Maybe you're not her type?

[Carfax]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I think you might have accidently insulted yourself there...

I think you need to re-read this discussion if you think it's that simple.  I understand that you're probably thinking that since the game itself is fantastical, then any included homosexuality also becomes irrelevent.

However, thats obviously not the case as this thread, and many other threads discussing homosexuality in DA2 obviously show.

The point is, homosexuality is such a charged issue that even in a game like Dragon Age 2 which is fantastical, real life implications emerge.

Whether you agree with this or not, doesn't matter.  I'm just stating the status quo.

[Crash_7]

@CarFax

That's an exaggeration of realities. The more realistic analysis would be that it was largely condemned in public, but, in private it was largely ignored. In other words hypocracy.

[Cutlass Jack]

Carfax wrote...

I think you need to re-read this discussion if you think it's that simple.  I understand that you're probably thinking that since the game itself is fantastical, then any included homosexuality also becomes irrelevent.

No I'm stating that you were dismissing having sex with Desire Demons as fantastical, but having sex with lyrium infused elves is somehow more realistic.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 06 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

The author is gay obviously despite claims otherwise. He's obviously insecure.

[randName]

Carfax wrote...
I don't know what your point was with posting all of that, but it doesn't take a genius to see that homosxuality has been universally condemned across most cultures and time periods..  And even in Societies that did have a greater level of tolerance for it, ie Ancient Rome and Greece, there wasn't complete acceptance. 

If the condemnation were mostly isolated and rare, then perhaps you'd have a point, but it hasn't been. 

Your logic seems to be that enough people believe one thing, then that is true and right.

The problem is that peoples beliefs and opinions doesn't make it so, or we would have gods galore if that was the case and the earth would have been flat in most of Europe, but not other where in the world.


& if you argue that belief makes right, then someone at BioWare that believes that homosexuality is equal should have an even larger incentive to promote this view, since the more he can convince of this, the more right it would become.

& that is a ridiculous argument.

[Carfax]

Actually it was actively promoted in Spartan culture where they believed it encouraged bonding in Military groups...

Sure you can find cases where it was promoted, but it was never completely accepted the same way that heterosexuality is accepted.  For example, there were rules and consequences regarding sexual contact between men and boys.  Roman Law in the early Republic era was very harsh on homosexuality, and could prescribe the death penalty in some situations (Lex Scantinia).  Also, the public beating to death of freeborn men who had consentual sex with each other was also prescribed via the supplicium fustuarium, which preceded the Lex Scantinia.

The Greeks also frowned on sexual relationships between two adult men, but pederasty was encouraged in the upper elite crust of Society.

Modifié par Carfax, 06 avril 2011 - 02:06 .

[Carfax]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
No I'm stating that you were dismissing having sex with Desire Demons as fantastical, but having sex with lyrium infused elves is somehow more realistic.

None of those scenarios are realistic (and I never said that by the way), but that isn't the point.  The point is that homosexuality (as in same sex romances) does exist in Dragon Age 2 regardless of the circumstances surrounding it.

Thats whats causing the controversy and the creation of threads like these..

[Russalka]

Why is condemning it in the past relevant at all? Women were and still are considered inferior to men. How about we let sexualities go as well?

There were times when independent women were considered unnatural.

[ScotGaymer]

randName wrote...

Louis deGuerre wrote...

I don't care a lot, but it is annoying that it does seem you only have two choices with the homosexual love interests : Act like a jerk or get into a relationship...whatever happened to the bromance ? I guess I'm just too nice a guy to qualify as straight

With Fenris you actually have to flirt to start the romance, and with Anders I believe its either avoid the diplomatic option before, or pick the diplomatic - dunno really, and it won't come up.

& even if you have to turn Anders down, its only a small rivalry score, one easily mended later.

Besides Rivalry is harder to get to a 100% without being a total jerk, so you should rejoice in it (Rivalry really is a more worthwhile path with most characters).


It's also really what irks me most about this; with Anders you have a 66% chance (bad math, yes) of being flirted with, a flirt you can easily just say no to. That's it for male/male flirting aside from you having the option in the dialogue wheel ~ and if that offends people, I don't get it.

That actually isnt true.

My first playthru I was purposely Friend-Romancing Anders; and I popped  up to chat to Fenris, having never once selected the Flirty Options with him and he totally hit on my GayManHawke.
I politely selected the "ill pretend i dont know your hitting on me" response.

[randName]

Russalka wrote...

Why is condemning it in the past relevant at all? Women were and still are considered inferior to men. How about we let sexualities go as well?

There were times when independent women were considered unnatural.

Well obviously, given that women are still considered inferior to men in most of the world, and if you add in historical views nothing more than objects that you own, they are still so today.

Opinions of the masses are law, proper and right.


I probably better start believing in something to, and what's even more confusing, why does any of this have any value to what DA is?

For all we know Thedas can actually view bisexuality as the norm, and the proper thing to be, while heterosexuality is seen as a limited narrow orientation worth condemnation.

[Carfax]

randName wrote...

Your logic seems to be that enough people believe one thing, then that is true and right.

Um, no..  What I'm saying has nothing to do with whether condemnation of homosexuality is right or wrong.

What I'm saying is that condemnation of homosexuality is not some minor occurrence, but a very widespread phenomenon that has existed for countless centuries the World over......and that it was incorrect of utenanon to assume that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equal and thus subject to the same treatment.

& if you argue that belief makes right, then someone at BioWare that believes that homosexuality is equal should have an even larger incentive to promote this view, since the more he can convince of this, the more right it would become.

& that is a ridiculous argument.

LOL you're naive if you think Bioware believes that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality.  If it were, then why hasn't Shepard ever had a gay romance?

[randName]

FitScotGaymer wrote...



That actually isnt true.

My first playthru I was purposely Friend-Romancing Anders; and I popped  up to chat to Fenris, having never once selected the Flirty Options with him and he totally hit on my GayManHawke.
I politely selected the "ill pretend i dont know your hitting on me" response.

I took the devs word for it, if its not then I'll correct myself in the future (never tried playing as a male Hawk past the demo area).

[Russalka]

Carfax wrote...
LOL you're naive if you think Bioware believes that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality.  If it were, then why hasn't Shepard ever had a gay romance?

Mark Vanderloo might have not been fond of having his likeness get it on with Kaidan.

[randName]

Carfax wrote...
hat I'm saying is that condemnation of homosexuality is not some minor occurrence, but a very widespread phenomenon that has existed for countless centuries the World over......and that it was incorrect of utenanon to assume that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equal and thus subject to the same treatment.

So obviously men and women are not equal either? Given that the common view historically, and now, is that women are not equal men? 

LOL you're naive if you think Bioware believes that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality.  If it were, then why hasn't Shepard ever had a gay romance?

I said somone at Bioware, not Bioware.



& in the end you constantly claim that the common held belief is the true and proper belief, but again and again have we seen people change their views on the world.

EDIT. grammar, syntax - ~ I'm truly a terrible poster.

Modifié par randName, 06 avril 2011 - 02:23 .

[Carfax]

Russalka wrote...

Mark Vanderloo might have not been fond of having his likeness get it on with Kaidan.

What about custom Sheps?  Really, stop making excuses for Bioware

[Russalka]

It is naive to think that you know what goes on in the minds of Bioware developers.

[MrTijger]

Russalka wrote...

Why is condemning it in the past relevant at all? Women were and still are considered inferior to men. How about we let sexualities go as well?

There were times when independent women were considered unnatural.

Let me point to Isabella to reference the standard, she's regularly referred to here as wh*re or sl*t when she's simply being a liberated woman with a high sex drive who does not like commitment, if that was a male char those same people would be cheering him on. Much has changed, much has stayed the same.

[samuelkaine]

Actually, you know what's a very modern and minority concept? Romance. To properly simulate global trends and history, Hawke should be married off by his mother to someone of equivalent social standing immediately. The player should have no say in this. Anything else is controversial.

[Keladis]

I have trouble understanding how people can get so fired up on the topic. Like it says in the article you can opt not engage into any relationship in the game you don't want to, why get all upset about it? Its not like you can't set Anders straight when he hits on your male character. I could see a reason if you was like "Anders I do not swing that way" and he keep on hitting on you.

I do kind of think they could of handle the same sex relationship a little better, so that people that wanted to believe that a character was straight could. That is kind of throw out the window when example Anders hits on you when you have not even given a flirt options. Oh well its a very minor thing.

[Russalka]

MrTijger wrote...
Let me point to Isabella to reference the standard, she's regularly referred to here as wh*re or sl*t when she's simply being a liberated woman with a high sex drive who does not like commitment, if that was a male char those same people would be cheering him on. Much has changed, much has stayed the same.

That is an excellent point.
Also how all of the main female characters went through various threads calling them ugly and picking them apart. With male characters, there was only Carver derp and pretty much nothing else.

[Carfax]

randName wrote...

So obviously men and women are not equal either? Given that the common view historically, and now, is that women are not equal men?

No, men and women are not equal.  With our History, how could anyone think that they were equal is beyond me

But thats not to say that men are superior to women, or vice versa.  Not being equal simply means that men and women are different, and has no connotation regarding superiority or inferiority.

I said somone at Bioware, not Bioware.

]

I sincerely doubt that single employee was responsible for the homosexual content in Dragon Age 2.  I know Gaider has very liberal views, but I could say the same thing about Bioware as a company as well based on how they develop their games.

& in the end you constantly claim that the common held belief is the true and proper belief, but again and again have we seen people change their views on the world. EDIT. grammar, syntax - ~ I'm truly am a terrible poster.

If you think I at any time stated that a commonly held view/belief automatically makes it true or proper, then you either have poor reading comprehension, or you haven't been reading what I've been saying properly.

Honestly, I have no real beef with homosexual content in Dragon Age 2, as long as it's properly implemented.  What I do have a problem with, is making all the romanceable characters' sexual orientation subject to the PC.. 

[PlumPaul93]

Russalka wrote...

MrTijger wrote...
Let me point to Isabella to reference the standard, she's regularly referred to here as wh*re or sl*t when she's simply being a liberated woman with a high sex drive who does not like commitment, if that was a male char those same people would be cheering him on. Much has changed, much has stayed the same.

That is an excellent point.
Also how all of the main female characters went through various threads calling them ugly and picking them apart. With male characters, there was only Carver derp and pretty much nothing else.

Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so , also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

[Carfax]

Russalka wrote...

It is naive to think that you know what goes on in the minds of Bioware developers.

It is naive to believe that Bioware hasn't made a gay relationship for Shepard because Mark Vanderloo could "possibly" be offended.

[Russalka]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so , also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

The point is, why are only women subjected to this sort of treatment, and not men? Regardless of what gender the poster is.