215 réponses à ce sujet

[Russalka]

Carfax wrote...
It is naive to believe that Bioware hasn't made a gay relationship for Shepard because Mark Vanderloo could "possibly" be offended.

Emphasis on the word might. I did not make any claims, I only had a guess.

[PlumPaul93]

Russalka wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so , also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

The point is, why are only women subjected to this sort of treatment, and not men? Regardless of what gender the poster is.

I'm pretty sure they are not regarding looks because there has been plenty whining regarding the looks of alistair and zevran in DA2, and wasn't fenris made to please the women? JMO and now back on topic.

[Cutlass Jack]

Carfax wrote...

Honestly, I have no real beef with homosexual content in Dragon Age 2, as long as it's properly implemented.  What I do have a problem with, is making all the romanceable characters' sexual orientation subject to the PC.. 

I honestly don't see any difference in that and having a whole country decide to go along with your choice as to who should lead it. (Or be ambassador to your entire species, for the ME side of things)

These games are filled with nothing but instances of everyone going along with player choice. No matter how illogical. Thats because its a game, and the best ones allow the player to tailor the experience somewhat to their preferences.

[Warheadz]

Russalka wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so , also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

The point is, why are only women subjected to this sort of treatment, and not men? Regardless of what gender the poster is.

It's a thing of the past that is still stuck with us in the modern world. And don't hit me now, but both men and women are responsible for this. But the main thing to look at would be the modern culture, for example the oversexualized advertisements, Barbie dolls etc. etc. And the celebrities and movies, tv, media, etc. etc. It might sound idiotic to some of you, but most of us live in a culture where women are supposed to be beautiful (The ancient greek standards we use today meaning beautiful), and if you are not then you are abnormal. From their childhood, small girls are subjected to this culture and receive pressure and "demands" to be beautiful.

Both men and women allow this to continue. Not all, but most. At least in my opinion. If we ever want to change this situation, we need to pretty much burn everything down and start from scratch.

[MonkeyLungs]

I don't usually post in these threads because I don't give a F. However, it is clearly apparent that at least in terms of characterization Bioware has succeeded. Their characters have sparked so many heated debates and discussions and both the love and the hate show emotional commitment to the characters.

The new combat system is lame but Bioware's characters never disappoint me.

BTW my first game was as a Mage (male) and both Anders and Fenris were my friends and neither of them was out of line or pushy. I had to explain that the relationship was not going to be that personal (just chose the broken heart icon the first time it came up for both) and after that we were still good friends.

[Russalka]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
I'm pretty sure they are not regarding looks because there has been plenty whining regarding the looks of alistair and zevran in DA2, and wasn't fenris made to please the women? JMO and now back on topic.

The Zevran and Alistair whining hardly compares to many threads complaining about Isabela's appearance and character. The many mods to whiten up Isabela come to mind as well. But that is already irrelevant.

What is proper handling of sexuality in the game anyway? It is subjective. I was fine with how they handled it in DA2. The companions do not become straight or gay to appease the player's tastes, but maybe they just do not feel the need to express it. That is mainly done for people who would complain about flirting anyway.

I keep repeating the same lines over and over again. Flirting happens. Flirting is normal. Flirting can hurt people. Anders' reaction was normal .Where were all the complainers when Leliana, Morrigan and Isabela pounced the player?

There are many unrealistic things in the storyline. Who cares if there are bisexual people in the party? Some refugees came from Ferelden and became prominent citizens of a huge city. They were helped by a dragon who just happened to be around.

Complaining about it only leads to pointless arguments like these. Bioware has made their case with Dragon Age and I hope they stick to it.

[randName]

Carfax wrote...
No, men and women are not equal.  With our History, how could anyone think that they were equal is beyond me

Butthats not to say that men are superior to women, or vice versa. Not being equal simply means that men and women are different, and has no connotation regarding superiority or inferiority.

So I was talking worth or.

equal as in.
1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.

As in regarding to a lower or higher value, thus inferiority or superiority.

I sincerely doubt that single employee was responsible for the homosexual content in Dragon Age 2.  I know Gaider has very liberal views, but I could say the same thing about Bioware as a company as well based on how
they develop their games.

Neither have I, nor have I claimed as much. It was simply an example that if someone had the view that they are equal, within a world that believes in that might makes right they should do what they can to promote their own view. Nothing else.

Honestly, I have no real beef with homosexual content in Dragon Age 2, as long as it's properly implemented.  What I do have a problem with, is making all the romanceable characters' sexual orientation subject to the PC..
 

Properly being based upon your opinion in this case, since I for one thought they were well implemented in DA2.

Modifié par randName, 06 avril 2011 - 03:02 .

[randName]

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so, also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

I really wonder were you are coming from, since when is it wrong for straight men to talk about how other men look? For one we (as a straight male) already care about how other men look, since we want to fit in, and stand out. So we observe other man and will judge our own looks based on that, and esp. will we look at men that are successful with those that we want to be successful with, so men that go home with the ladies we want to go home with are copied and taken after, men that behave in ways we want, we copy and ape, its human nature, and most, if not all straight men does this already.

[Mlaar]

Russalka wrote...
What is proper handling of sexuality in the game anyway? It is subjective. I was fine with how they handled it in DA2. The companions do not become straight or gay to appease the player's tastes, but maybe they just do not feel the need to express it. That is mainly done for people who would complain about flirting anyway.

I keep repeating the same lines over and over again. Flirting happens. Flirting is normal. Flirting can hurt people. Anders' reaction was normal .Where were all the complainers when Leliana, Morrigan and Isabela pounced the player?

Well golly gosh Im happy that you were fine with the way they handled the romances, I personaly wasnt fine with it, being faced with a situation I have no intrest in and not fun for me when Im paying to play for fun.

So I shall repeat the same lines again: Make the romances player initated that way Im not subjected to something I have no wish to be involved with and you still get to have your gay/lesbian/bi- relationships its win win

after all I take it you agree the game should cater for everybodys enjoyment!

[Russalka]

Plenty of people wanted the companions to show interest first themselves. Fenris and Merrill require flirting with to actually to be interested in return. The companions seem independent and more realistic if they have their own needs and desires and are free to express it.

Flirting happens.

[randName]

Warheadz wrote...

Russalka wrote...

PlumPaul82393 wrote...
Do you honesty think a straight male would start a thread saying anders or fenris is ugly to them? If so , also I'm pretty sure there were threads saying anders looked different although I don't know if a male or female did.

The point is, why are only women subjected to this sort of treatment, and not men? Regardless of what gender the poster is.

It's a thing of the past that is still stuck with us in the modern world. And don't hit me now, but both men and women are responsible for this. But the main thing to look at would be the modern culture, for example the oversexualized advertisements, Barbie dolls etc. etc. And the celebrities and movies, tv, media, etc. etc. It might sound idiotic to some of you, but most of us live in a culture where women are supposed to be beautiful (The ancient greek standards we use today meaning beautiful), and if you are not then you are abnormal. From their childhood, small girls are subjected to this culture and receive pressure and "demands" to be beautiful.

Both men and women allow this to continue. Not all, but most. At least in my opinion. If we ever want to change this situation, we need to pretty much burn everything down and start from scratch.

+1.

Or maybe I should punch you instead, but no.
This is mostly right, and I don't feel that its horrible or bad, or society is more stable if its a slow rather inert mass, but stability is not always desired. Fast change on the otherhand requires a society wide epiphany, and outside wars and the plague these are rare.

[UltimoCrofto]

I'm surprised so many are bringing this up now, since I recall Zevran being somewhat forward with his intentions toward my male Warden in Origins.

Also, though it hardly needs saying since I assume it's the consensus, I completely agree with Yahztee's article and BioWare on this topic.

[randName]

Mlaar wrote...
after all I take it you agree the game should cater for everybodys enjoyment!

No, why would we? One very normal stance in almost any gaming community is exactly against this type of widening of the player base by sacrifice.

[Russalka]

Zevran still gets comments saying that people killed him not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he is bisexual and flirtatious.

[randName]

Russalka wrote...

Zevran still gets comments saying that people killed him not because he wanted to assassinate the Warden, but because he is bisexual and flirtatious.

I mostly killed him because he is annoying ~ 

OR here I thought that I talked to much.

& with my female Wardens I had Alistair deported or executed because the only way to keep the ninjmance at bay was to either treat him as a dog through out, or send him away, Zevran was actually easier to avoid since he was less about sneaking up on you, surprisingly enough. Nor does Zevran act like you broke his heart when you turn him down, while Alistair drops so low in friendship that I always felt bad casting him out.

Modifié par randName, 06 avril 2011 - 03:25 .

[Russalka]

Oh yes, he does tend to be annoying.

[Killjoy Cutter]

The only "flirt/romance" moment that I've seen so far that really bothered me is when Anders tries to come on really strong right away, and you get rivalry points for rejecting the advance, as a male or female Hawke. Of course, really, that's in keeping with Anders' DA2 character, I guess.

[Cutlass Jack]

Zevran was more forward than any DA2 character was, but it didn't bother me in the slightest since the shameless attempts were funny.

Its also worth pointing out Oghren was even more forward than any of them with "Get in my tent, woman!" Even as a straight male I found the dwarven stallion line impossible to resist.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 06 avril 2011 - 03:27 .

[Zkyire]

God damn why is this even an issue?

Oh you don't like it when Anders flirts with you?

Then tell him to stop. It's an option. And guess what? He never flirts with you again, unless you initiate it.

This is a total non-issue, it's just ridiculous, especially when there are real issues to complain about. ie. bugs and recycled areas.

[Dark83]

asaiasai wrote...

Call a child kid and they will get mad call me a kid and i will laugh

This is true.

Children associate adulthood with freedom - to do what they want, to have what was denied to them by adults. They associate childhood with restrictions - to be denied things because they aren't old enough, to have chores and tasks imposed upon them. A child strives to be recognized as an adult - and this is fine, because such is life. A child will react poorly to being called a child - he wants to be recognized as an adult though he knows he isn't.

Adults associate adulthood with responsbilities and obligations. They know that adulthood, to be self-sufficient and responsible, imposes chores and tasks upon themselves. An adult associates no special relevance to being an adult. He laughs at being called a kid, because he knows he is not.

We become adults when we no longer strive to be recognized as one.

Modifié par Dark83, 06 avril 2011 - 03:33 .

[Zkyire]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The only "flirt/romance" moment that I've seen so far that really bothered me is when Anders tries to come on really strong right away, and you get rivalry points for rejecting the advance, as a male or female Hawke. Of course, really, that's in keeping with Anders' DA2 character, I guess.

It is annoying, but it is realistic.

He came onto you.

You rejected him.

His feelings were hurt.

But it's only Justers, so who cares?

[Dark83]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The only "flirt/romance" moment that I've seen so far that really bothered me is when Anders tries to come on really strong right away, and you get rivalry points for rejecting the advance, as a male or female Hawke. Of course, really, that's in keeping with Anders' DA2 character, I guess.

I heard being Ander's rival is great in terms of the interactions, so I favor getting rival points with him now.

[catabuca]

I'm rivalmancing Anders right now, and his hot kiss scene certainly had a lot more flavour to it because of the frustrated dialogue that led up to it.

That said, I probably still have a preference for friendmancing him. I like him too much

But yes, Anders is the sort of character where it makes good characterisation sense for him to give you rival points in that situation. It's in keeping with his character. We hear a lot of bluster about the characters' sexualities not being 'realistic' ... well, I'd say notching up a few rivalry points in this instance is incredibly realistic to his character -- he's putting his feelings on the line during a very emotional moment, right after he's lost someone who meant a lot to him, he's in a vulnerable place, and his head is mixed up and confused with his anger against Templars in that one moment. Sure he's not going to react well in that situation. I wouldn't either if I was as angry, confused, sad, lonely, and passionate as him.

[jadefishes]

The long and the short of it is, if you honestly can't find something beautiful in the self-sacrificing devotion between two people just because they're both trouser-wearers, then I pity you, I really do.

What more need be said?

Other than that I heard Yahtzee's voice in my head throughout the article and was compelled to read it at high speed with minimal pauses for the punctuation that shouldn't be there because it's Yahtzee, dammit.

[Mlaar]

Russalka wrote...
Flirting happens.

You can repeat this over and over as much as you like and in day to day life yes I accept this But... At the end of the day this is a game thier is no need for it to happen, All that has come of it infact is to create an issue out of nothing