29 réponses à ce sujet

[jds1bio]

Some people on the internets are lamenting the lack of choice in the story of Dragon Age II.  Yes, the world of DA2 seems to be headed in a certain direction, and the outcome may seem inevitable.  But as far as lack of choice in the game, after playing through the game a few times I see that this couldn't be further from the truth. 

But since the truths we cling to often depend on our point of view, let me offer a point of view here:

DA2, generally speaking, has three acts.  The third act is relatively the shortest quest-wise, and at the end, it just ends (future DLCs notwithstanding).  Some have lamented the lack of an epilogue.  But the way this story is structured, it seems to me that the third act IS the epilogue - just a long one that gives you direct access to the events after the "main game" of the first two acts (the goal of which is to become Champion of Kirkwall).  This story structure, where fervent fans of DA:O are concerned, is probably the second-most expectation-destroying feature in the game, the first being the title of the game itself. 

But if you look upon Act III as being the epilogue, story and choice begin to be brought into focus.  In the third act you DO get to see what happens to your characters after you become Champion.  You do see what their lives become.  Do their relationships last?  Do they get the revenge they seek?  What happens with the family?  Who will side with the templars?  With the mages?  You get to witness all of this in playable fashion, and you get to see the impact of your choices.

Now, let's talk about those choices.  Some of the choices are life-and-death for many characters.  Right from the start you know this based on which character class you choose.  But there are certainly other ones throughout the game, and this impacts the availability and participation of party characters and major NPCs, which can vary sharply from playthrough to playthrough.  But as in real life, some of your choices, sometimes frustratingly so, have absolutely NO effect on the actions some characters will take, or the events they experience.  But you do get to choose in-game how you react to the characters involved and their choices, so that in itself is a choice.

You can choose to enter romantic relationships, and decide how far you want to go.  These relationships do have an effect on the loyalty of your characters, something that, other than friendship/rivalry, may not be apparent until late in the third Act / epilogue.  But having been through a few playthroughs, the differences of the impacts of your choices can be night and day.  Characters (other than Hawke) who love each other in one playthrough may end up distrusting and swearing at each other in another playthrough, largely thanks to Hawke's influence in both playthroughs.

And yes, you can choose your character's sexual orientation.  The outcry over this has already been made known.  But you can also choose to hand over a companion to become someone else's slave.  With all the prior human history of slavery, some of which still goes on today, where is the outcry over this?  I was appalled that the game allowed me to make such a choice, yet this was only worth a few rivalry points from my party members whose races have been enslaved themselves.  After this it was business as usual for them, and for Hawke too - after all, one of the game's status effects is "enslavement".  A strange game choice indeed, but still a choice.

And let's not forget, certain bugs aside, veterans of DA:O and its DLCs do get to see how their Warden's choices impact the characters and story of DA2, all the way up to the final battle in Act III.

If all this doesn't matter to you because the game just ends at the end, try to view Act III as the epilogue and then see what happens.  Just know that once you reach Act III, you still have many hours of gaming ahead of you to enjoy.  Thanks for reading.

[PirateT138]

No. Act III is an abomination, but it's not an epilogue, and I can only think of one REAL choice in Act III, everything else is an action game on rails. It's some of the WORST parts of the game where the game totally ignores previous choices.

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

"Guys, I've been working against XYZ for years now, I'm on your side, let's talk about this."

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

"Seriously?"

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

Modifié par PirateT138, 06 avril 2011 - 06:15 .

[Demonhoopa]

I'm on my 3rd playthough, all three have been very different experiences and have had many many variations.

Very satisfactory.

[astrallite]

Cool story.

[Sakanade]

PirateT138 wrote...

No. Act III is an abomination, but it's not an epilogue, and I can only think of one REAL choice in Act III, everything else is an action game on rails. It's some of the WORST parts of the game where the game totally ignores previous choices.

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

"Guys, I've been working against XYZ for years now, I'm on your side, let's talk about this."

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

"Seriously?"

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

This is pretty much entire DA2 for me

At that one point where the crazy templar abducts the Qunari and has them in chains, I say "I hate them too!"
I get: 

"Get him, he's working with XYZ!!!!!"

Modifié par Sakanade, 06 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[fchopin]

I don't think op understands what choices signify.

Have you played an RPG before?

[Edli]

lol at the choices you list.

"You can choose to enter romantic relationships" and the other choice you mention is "And yes, you can choose your character's sexual orientation."

That's all you can choose? What about the story? I'm not playing a dating simulation am I?

[jds1bio]

fchopin wrote...

I don't think op understands what choices signify.

Have you played an RPG before?

Ok, let's assume I don't understand.  What do choices signify?

[fchopin]

jds1bio wrote...

Ok, let's assume I don't understand.  What do choices signify?

You have not answered my question. Have you played any other RPG's apart from DA2?

[jds1bio]

Edli wrote...

lol at the choices you list.

"You can choose to enter romantic relationships" and the other choice you mention is "And yes, you can choose your character's sexual orientation."

That's all you can choose? What about the story? I'm not playing a dating simulation am I?

Please read again.  I mention more choices that this.  Many of your game choices are story-related life-and-death decisions.

And yes, part of role playing is dating simulation.  Look at the ME games, DA:O, and other RPGs.

[1000questions]

The only epilogue which fits DA2 is

EA/Bioware feeling awesome and shouting on top of their voice " WE GOT YOUR MONEY"

[Warheadz]

I thought Act III was the worst of them all. It tries to be some sort of finale which ties the earlier,pointless quests together to the main plot which barely exists. But in the end, it is nothing more than a flimsy attempt. People come at you and either thank you or blame you, and everything seems just as detached from the rest of the story as the other acts. In the end they try to make this final showdown, but it feels extremely forced and for me felt like a little schoolkid that whips something up because the deadline is so close.

IMO!

[jds1bio]

fchopin wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

Ok, let's assume I don't understand.  What do choices signify?

You have not answered my question. Have you played any other RPG's apart from DA2?

Just to name a few: Quest For Glory I & II, Fallout 1/2/3, ME1, ME2, KOTOR, DA:O, DA2, PS: Torment, The Witcher. And this is only on PC, so I haven't included other platforms or D&D p-n-p or MUDs.

[enhancedhpb]

Just like DA2, overall, every rpg gives you a very limited number of choices for the main plot . There is a specifc plot to follow in every rpg. I'm not sure why so many people angry about DA2's number of choices.

Modifié par enhancedhpb, 06 avril 2011 - 07:05 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

What epilogue?

[jds1bio]

enhancedhpb wrote...

Just like DA2, overall, every rpg gives you a very limited number of choices for the main plot . There is a specifc plot to follow in every rpg. I'm not sure why so many people angry about DA2's number of choices.

Some are angry because DA2 is not prior Bioware games.  Even though in DA:O you had no choice but to become a grey warden and fight the archdemon.  You had influence over who lived and died in a few places, but that is also true of DA2.  Some of your DA:O decisions have more impact in DA2 than they do at the end of DA:O.

In KOTOR, you ultimately had no choice over who you were and who you had to fight at the end.  And for light-side Jedi, the ending had no epilogue, resorting to a typical Star Wars line-up-on-the-dais celebration.

In ME1 and ME2, you could choose who to date and who you were associated with, but you had to fight the same bad bosses at the end.  Your life-and-death choices regarding companions were personally impactful but had no bearing on the overall plot.

[Stegoceras]

Is this a serious post or are you just looking for a confrontation?

When I read this I get the simple feeling I have been playing an entirely different game then you.

- I can't remember learning anything more about the fate of my companions then: "in time they all went their seperate ways"
- (small spoiler) I never experienced anything that linked act III to it's predecessor beyond Meredith's sword. (small spoiler)
- My choices didn't matter, I joined the Templars and the brown stuff still hit the fan as it would have with the mages.
- The most important choice was your class? Well every RPG has that choice, that doesn't impress me the least. Beyond that you can let a apostate mage live here and there but usually that only means you'll have to kill them later.
- The romance was very unimpressive, slept with Isabela she started to open up about her past and then nothing until the last chapter where a small conversation of little meaning led to the completion of the romance, it was very underwhelming.
- And the impact of my Warden's choices? they are minor to non-existent, ran into Alistair drunk in a bar and a former werewolf threatened by a elf and it had no impact on the plot whatsoever.

I do agree that the whole ****** romance option is not worth the outcry, but beyond that I think this post is pretty strange and seems more like a complete joke only here to fuel the confrontational fire.

[jds1bio]

Stegoceras wrote...

Is this a serious post or are you just looking for a confrontation?

When I read this I get the simple feeling I have been playing an entirely different game then you.

I do agree that the whole ****** romance option is not worth the outcry, but beyond that I think this post is pretty strange and seems more like a complete joke only here to fuel the confrontational fire.

It is a serious post.  I am offering up my viewpoint and discussing it.  I welcome comments, reactions, and opinions.  No confrontation, friend.

Two of my playthroughs of DA2 were very different experiences, so I am not surprised to hear that you feel we're playing two different games.  You are not the first to tell me this.  Some people feel that their choices didn't matter in the game.  Even so, there are choices in the game.  Please try to leave out the spoilers though.

[Sabriana]

Nothing Hawke did mattered. She was just there for the ride. Lore didn't matter either, neither did anything she said. It's the Anders story, pure and simple. Hawke was just there to clean up messes.

What was truly awful to me was the:

Hawke: "Hey templar dude, I'm a mage!"

Templar dude: "No you're not."

Hawke: "Yes I am. Look, mage robes, staff, fire balls, and everything."
Templar dude: "What are you talking about. I see nothing."

Hawke (crying): "But, but I really am a mage."

Templar dude: "If you were a mage, I'd know it. We go after apostates, even into Dalish camps. You, madam are NOT a mage."

Hawke: "....???"

Them's no spoilers because it doesn't happen. It might have been better if it had, though.

As far as epilogue goes, I'm still waiting for mine. Act III was an atrocity. Especially because Act II gave me hope again, after trudging through Act I. The Qunari writer person deserves a medal. And a rescue.

[AAHook2]

In Origins there were a lot of choices, even through Awakenings. You could even choose if your Warden lived or died. You could be a thief in Denerim or you could attempt to keep law and order. You could help the nobles or undermine them. You could choose to follow Andraste's religion, confront it or just be passive about it. Your choices determined whether party members left or stayed. You could follow Morrigan's code of survival, Wynne's code of sacrifice, Oghren's wildness or anything in between. Your companions were swayed by your actions and your choice of words. You could condemn Loghain or see his point of view. You could crown Alistair as King or leave him to wander around Ferelden aimlessly as a drunken bastard. You could save Amaranthine or burn it down. Side with the Mages or the Templars in the Circle, Put Harrowmont on the throne or Bhalen. Side with the Elves or the Werewolves or negotiate peace between the two...The choices go on and on.
In Dragon age 2 you were severely limited even in your surroundings. There were a lot of instances where nothing you could do would save certain people or redirect their paths significantly. Anders is a good example. You could choose for him to live or die, but his actions would remain the same, it seems. In the case of Merril I suppose this dynamic worked well. Her story is pretty heartbreaking, and even the "best" choices come with dire ramifications for her and her clan.

Just comparing the two games as one must, there's no way around seeing that Origins had a lot more freedom of choice.

[jds1bio]

AAHook2 wrote...

In Origins there were a lot of choices, even through Awakenings.

In Dragon age 2 you were severely limited even in your surroundings. There were a lot of instances where nothing you could do would save certain people or redirect their paths significantly.

Just comparing the two games as one must, there's no way around seeing that Origins had a lot more freedom of choice.

Agreed, in Origins there were a lot of choices.   Your choices amounted to means-to-an-end, who was where, and who was around, which gave you lots of in-game scenario options for sure.  And some questions that are still left unanswered. 

Trying to avoid spoilers though...but I agree with your DA2 examples being the extremes of choice.  I think that the friendship/rivalry mechanic and the dialog choice mechanic could have you boxed up by the middle of Act III depending on how things go. Whereas in Origins, depending on gifts, etc., you could keep making different choices about companions right up to the final confrontation.  So I suppose Origins has more freedom in that sense.  Still, after playing through DA2 more than once, I know that there are enough variations to keep things interesting, at least for me.

[Demonhoopa]

Some spend a lot of time here considering the contempt they have for the game. I don't mean to antagonize but I just don't get it. I didn't like Pink Floyd any more when Roger Waters left but I don't follow them around complaining about their new lineup.

Don't like Panic without Ryan Ross but the last thing I'm going to do is go on their forum or  Youtube Video and start stalking/serial flaming their product.

I vote with my wallet and take my business elsewhere.

Sorry, just don't get it.

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 06 avril 2011 - 09:13 .

[PirateT138]

Warheadz hit the nail on the head (I actually said aloud: "Totally"), it felt like a kid close to his deadline that slams energy drinks all night and comes out with something that is held together only tenuously and the pieces of the story are jammed together with no regard for what came before it.

Act I was okay, Act II was great, Act III was...just bad. Games on rails can be good, but don't give me the illusion of choice and then force me down the same avenue regardless of what I picked, it will come out poorly like the end of DA2.

[Darth Krytie]

Demonhoopa wrote...

Some spend a lot of time here considering the contempt they have for the game. I don't mean to antagonize but I just don't get it. I didn't like Pink Floyd any more when Roger Waters left but I don't follow them around complaining about their new lineup.

Don't like Panic without Ryan Ross but the last thing I'm going to do is go on their forum or  Youtube Video and start stalking/serial flaming their product.

I vote with my wallet and take my business elsewhere.

Sorry, just don't get it.

I feel the same way you do...if you hate the game so much, why discuss it ad nauseum? I can't stand a lot of games. I don't give them another thought and won't spend a minute typing about them.

I really loved this game. And I think if anyone thinks that there's this great dearth of choice in DA:2 compared to Origins, that they're wearing rose coloured-glasses.