222 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

She runs off with the Qunari book so that the Qunari run through the streets slaughtering everyone. I am sure you have a good excuse for that too. Probably something along 'She isn't perfect.' Yeah, not by a long shot.

The actual reason is that wasn't the reason they ran through the streets slaughtering everyone. It was the final insult to the Qun when the Vicount demanded the elves back.

The Book didn't help, certainly, but it would have happened regardless.

If you give the book and the thief (Isabella) to the Qunari they leave peacefully. The only reason the Qunari came to Kirkwall was chasing Isabella who stole their book to begin with.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I didn't really care for either of them. At least in my first game. Merril was a well meaning but insanely naive dangerously overconfident and destructive blood mage.

"Insanely naive" about what? She understands the risks of dealing with 'spirits" as she tells Anders - they're all dangerous. She doesn't adhere to the distinction between spirits and demons because it's based on Andrastian religious values (as Anders admits) and she believes in the Creators.

As for the Eluvian, it was important enough that Morrigan decided to steal an ancient book and enpower a nearly forgotten Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, so I don't think it was a waste of time for Merrill to try to build one from her knowledge of the shard and the lore she gathered.

Rifneno wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
1. It's very likely she's a virgin.

"She's likely a virgin?"  Are you serious?  This is someone who thought a mugging was a welcoming ceremony.  It's a relatively safe bet that at least 7 guys have stuck the sword in the stone by telling her it's a treatment for athlete's foot.

About the mugging comment, it's an issue of culture shock. If the Dalish clans don't have muggings, she wouldn't understand what happened. Technically, she shouldn't have been able to actually reference that what she saw was a mugging, but this is the same story that has Cullen witnessing an apostate Hawke use magic and later telling him that "mages are weapons. They aren't people like you and me."

[Kogaion]

Isabela is a extreme dirty **** no sane human will touch in r/l ...Anders heals some of her disease but she definitely have more...so DA2 has NO female romance (since Merril is just a child ..no way you can compare her with Tali ) ...guys were screwed here

[AlexXIV]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I didn't really care for either of them. At least in my first game. Merril was a well meaning but insanely naive dangerously overconfident and destructive blood mage.

"Insanely naive" about what? She understands the risks of dealing with 'spirits" as she tells Anders - they're all dangerous. She doesn't adhere to the distinction between spirits and demons because it's based on Andrastian religious values (as Anders admits) and she believes in the Creators.

As for the Eluvian, it was important enough that Morrigan decided to steal an ancient book and enpower a nearly forgotten Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, so I don't think it was a waste of time for Merrill to try to build one from her knowledge of the shard and the lore she gathered.

Rifneno wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
1. It's very likely she's a virgin.

"She's likely a virgin?"  Are you serious?  This is someone who thought a mugging was a welcoming ceremony.  It's a relatively safe bet that at least 7 guys have stuck the sword in the stone by telling her it's a treatment for athlete's foot.

About the mugging comment, it's an issue of culture shock. If the Dalish clans don't have muggings, she wouldn't understand what happened. Technically, she shouldn't have been able to actually reference that what she saw was a mugging, but this is the same story that has Cullen witnessing an apostate Hawke use magic and later telling him that "mages are weapons. They aren't people like you and me."

I actually thought the mugging thing was meant to be sarcasm.

[hoorayforicecream]

AlexXIV wrote...

She runs off with the Qunari book so that the Qunari run through the streets slaughtering everyone. I am sure you have a good excuse for that too. Probably something along 'She isn't perfect.' Yeah, not by a long shot.

In the case of the Qunari attack, I don't put so much of the blame on Isabela for the Qunari killing people as I do on the Qunari for the Qunari killing people. Isabela might have led them to Kirkwall, but the Qunari are thinking beings capable of taking responsibility for their own actions. Isabela didn't use blood magic to force the Qunari to go stabbing people, they did it on their own.

[AlexXIV]

Kogaion wrote...

Isabela is a extreme dirty **** no sane human will touch in r/l ...Anders heals some of her disease but she definitely have more...so DA2 has NO female romance (since Merril is just a child ..no way you can compare her with Tali ) ...guys were screwed here

Merril is not a child. You don't judge maturity by size alone. Elves are small, so what? Dwarves are even smaller.

[Cutlass Jack]

AlexXIV wrote...

If you give the book and the thief (Isabella) to the Qunari they leave peacefully. The only reason the Qunari came to Kirkwall was chasing Isabella who stole their book to begin with.

No, they leave vowing to return finish the job. There was nothing peaceful about it.

Even if you walked into the compound with Aveline with the book, there still would have been a fight. Because the insult that is 'Kirkwall Justice' demanded the return of Elves protected by the Qun. The Qun is not big on flexibility. He still would have beheaded the Vicount before he left.

[The Angry One]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

 but the Qunari are thinking beings capable of taking responsibility for their own actions.

As I've said elsewhere, debatable.
They behave like automatons with rigid sets of instructions.

[AlexXIV]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

She runs off with the Qunari book so that the Qunari run through the streets slaughtering everyone. I am sure you have a good excuse for that too. Probably something along 'She isn't perfect.' Yeah, not by a long shot.

In the case of the Qunari attack, I don't put so much of the blame on Isabela for the Qunari killing people as I do on the Qunari for the Qunari killing people. Isabela might have led them to Kirkwall, but the Qunari are thinking beings capable of taking responsibility for their own actions. Isabela didn't use blood magic to force the Qunari to go stabbing people, they did it on their own.

I am not saying that Isabella is responsible instead of Qunari, as in taking their place concenring blame. She ran with it knowing that people may die for it and didn't give a damn.

[Kogaion]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kogaion wrote...

Isabela is a extreme dirty **** no sane human will touch in r/l ...Anders heals some of her disease but she definitely have more...so DA2 has NO female romance (since Merril is just a child ..no way you can compare her with Tali ) ...guys were screwed here

Merril is not a child. You don't judge maturity by size alone. Elves are small, so what? Dwarves are even smaller.

ofc i'm not talking about size ..common..i'm talking about  her mind ..she's to naive...to unseasoned ...she's no woman she's a little girl...( Morrigan was a woman)

[Iosev]

Ultimately, Isabela takes the book out of self-preservation. She's led a life of distancing herself from others, and putting her survival above anything else.

This only changes if you become her friend or rival, or if you romance her. She still doesn't care about the "greater good" and such, but she does risk her life by coming back to protect Hawke and company if they become close enough.  Later in Act 3, you get a little hint that she's starting to care about more than herself, but she's isn't really eager to admit that.

Modifié par arcelonious, 07 avril 2011 - 05:27 .

[The Angry One]

Kogaion wrote...

ofc i'm not talking about size ..common..i'm talking about  her mind ..she's to naive...to unseasoned ...she's no woman she's a little girl...( Morrigan was a woman)

An independant, determined person is a little girl. Right.
Meanwhile a patsy who has clearly done the bidding of her mother since the day she was born whether she knows it or not is a woman.

Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic.

[AlexXIV]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

If you give the book and the thief (Isabella) to the Qunari they leave peacefully. The only reason the Qunari came to Kirkwall was chasing Isabella who stole their book to begin with.

No, they leave vowing to return finish the job. There was nothing peaceful about it.

Even if you walked into the compound with Aveline with the book, there still would have been a fight. Because the insult that is 'Kirkwall Justice' demanded the return of Elves protected by the Qun. The Qun is not big on flexibility. He still would have beheaded the Vicount before he left.

Well I get that alot lately. You assume something to be true and expect me to agree? The only reason Aveline wants the elves back is that the Qunari are in Kirkwall. If they left they could have taken the elves with them. The problem was that the Qunari were present, and defying Kirkwall law.

Yes they will come back. That's old news. They will conquer all of Thedas, or die trying.

[NeroSparda]

Kogaion wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kogaion wrote...

Isabela is a extreme dirty **** no sane human will touch in r/l ...Anders heals some of her disease but she definitely have more...so DA2 has NO female romance (since Merril is just a child ..no way you can compare her with Tali ) ...guys were screwed here

Merril is not a child. You don't judge maturity by size alone. Elves are small, so what? Dwarves are even smaller.

ofc i'm not talking about size ..common..i'm talking about  her mind ..she's to naive...to unseasoned ...she's no woman she's a little girl...( Morrigan was a woman)

Morrigan may be a woman, but she is proven to be just about or as stupid compared to Merrill (though in different departments). One is a b!tch while the other is cute... Still romance both. I am not letting go of the fact Isabella ditch my canon male rogue Hawke after everything he did for her thanks to the friend/rival system.

Edit: Noticed a spelling error.

Modifié par NeroSparda, 07 avril 2011 - 05:21 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The Angry One wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Isabela isn't for everyone (despite her reputation), but she certainly wormed her way into my heart and feasted on my tender white flesh.

Oh that's terrible. I've murder knifed people for less than this!

I cannot claim credit. One of the bar patrons says this to Isabela before she comments on Hawke's romantic situation in Act 2. But it did seem appropriate.

[hoorayforicecream]

AlexXIV wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

She runs off with the Qunari book so that the Qunari run through the streets slaughtering everyone. I am sure you have a good excuse for that too. Probably something along 'She isn't perfect.' Yeah, not by a long shot.

In the case of the Qunari attack, I don't put so much of the blame on Isabela for the Qunari killing people as I do on the Qunari for the Qunari killing people. Isabela might have led them to Kirkwall, but the Qunari are thinking beings capable of taking responsibility for their own actions. Isabela didn't use blood magic to force the Qunari to go stabbing people, they did it on their own.

I am not saying that Isabella is responsible instead of Qunari, as in taking their place concenring blame. She ran with it knowing that people may die for it and didn't give a damn.

You're probably hated Han Solo too, didn't you? 

[Kogaion]

The Angry One wrote...

Kogaion wrote...

ofc i'm not talking about size ..common..i'm talking about  her mind ..she's to naive...to unseasoned ...she's no woman she's a little girl...( Morrigan was a woman)

An independant, determined person is a little girl. Right.
Meanwhile a patsy who has clearly done the bidding of her mother since the day she was born whether she knows it or not is a woman.

Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic.

that's you're oppinion ..as that was mine ofc ...but you are "the angry one" so i'm guessing you're just angry by default about my comment  (joke)

[LobselVith8]

Kogaion wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Kogaion wrote...

Isabela is a extreme dirty **** no sane human will touch in r/l ...Anders heals some of her disease but she definitely have more...so DA2 has NO female romance (since Merril is just a child ..no way you can compare her with Tali ) ...guys were screwed here

Merril is not a child. You don't judge maturity by size alone. Elves are small, so what? Dwarves are even smaller.

ofc i'm not talking about size ..common..i'm talking about  her mind ..she's to naive...to unseasoned ...she's no woman she's a little girl...( Morrigan was a woman)

She's a Dalish elf who is dealing with culture shock when she comes into a human city for the first time, and isn't aware of simple things that the humans and city elves take for granted because it's entirely different than what she is accustomed to living with the clan. Morrigan admitted to dealing with similar difficulty because she was mostly raised by Flemeth in the Korcari Wilds, especially when she's grappling with the concept of love if she's romanced by the Warden.

[The Angry One]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Isabela isn't for everyone (despite her reputation), but she certainly wormed her way into my heart and feasted on my tender white flesh.

Oh that's terrible. I've murder knifed people for less than this!

I cannot claim credit. One of the bar patrons says this to Isabela before she comments on Hawke's romantic situation in Act 2. But it did seem appropriate.

I know, that kind of thing is where renegade interrupts would come in handy.

[Cutlass Jack]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well I get that alot lately. You assume something to be true and expect me to agree? The only reason Aveline wants the elves back is that the Qunari are in Kirkwall. If they left they could have taken the elves with them. The problem was that the Qunari were present, and defying Kirkwall law.

Yes they will come back. That's old news. They will conquer all of Thedas, or die trying.

Have you met Aveline? The only reason Aveline wants the elves back is because they broke the law. The confrontation would have played out the same regardless. Believe what you will, but I say again: The Qun isn't big on flexibility. The Qun demands and the Qunari obey.

Isabela runs with the book true, but did not do so knowing there was this whole Elven powder keg that would start the Qunari on a rampage. Even Hawke couldn't have predicted that. Human logic would dictate the Qunari would more likely leave the city chasing her instead. She does return when she realizes that's not the case. Did she make a bad call? Yes. But she tried to fix it because she cared about Hawke.

That's a pretty big difference between her and Anders, who does what he does with full knowledge of what will happen.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 07 avril 2011 - 05:30 .

[The Angry One]

Kogaion wrote...

that's you're oppinion ..as that was mine ofc ...but you are "the angry one" so i'm guessing you're just angry by default about my comment  (joke)

The point is people calling her a little girl have no basis.
Think about it, if Merril had a dominant voice like Morrigan's would you still call her a little girl?

[AlexXIV]

Well Merril does appear naive in some respects. But she is an elf who never lived in the city. I don't think that her being 10 years older would have changed that. And she is probably rather young. But not more than the Warden tbh. And the Warden could be rather naive as well. I will just mention stories with griffons in it here. But being young and a child is still not the same. She is adult enough to leave her clan and go into the world alone and there was no guarantee that Hawke and/or Varric would take care of her. I think that alone should be reason enough to consider her adult. Not to mention, you can only romance her 3 years after you met her anyway.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 07 avril 2011 - 05:35 .

[AlexXIV]

The Angry One wrote...

Kogaion wrote...

that's you're oppinion ..as that was mine ofc ...but you are "the angry one" so i'm guessing you're just angry by default about my comment  (joke)

The point is people calling her a little girl have no basis.
Think about it, if Merril had a dominant voice like Morrigan's would you still call her a little girl?

I found Merril pretty dominant. She never listened to Hawke. Or anyone.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 07 avril 2011 - 05:32 .

[Cutlass Jack]

AlexXIV wrote...

I found Merril pretty dominant. She never listened to Hawke. Or anyone.

I must agree with this.

Anyway on Merril, I found her hoplessly naive, but not a little girl. I've run into full fledged adults in the real world just like her. (maybe not the blood mage part) If anything I thought Liara in ME1 felt much younger and she had 100 years on Shepard. She wasn't remotely my type, but I did like her for who she was.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 07 avril 2011 - 05:37 .

[Rifneno]

sylvanaerie wrote...

And yea I don't like the idea of suddenly getting my heart ripped out over an argument of 'who left the toilet seat up'.

I don't understand why Merrill is considered safe to be around.  Plot armor so thick it could withstand a direct thermonuclear blast is the only reason she hasn't gone Uldred about 29 times over.

For romance, Sebastian

Please don't bring bestiality into it.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I'll admit it. I laughed.

Thank you!  

I thought the same way you did initially... a scoundrel with a heart of gold, like Han Solo or Malcolm Reynolds but with a pair of glorious breasts.

Never noticed.  Legs ftw.  Oddly enough the only part of her body well covered...

However, in order to get a full picture of Isabela, you need more than her romance conversations. She's very emotionally guarded. It's very easy to miss. I found out almost by accident... she was in my party because I enjoyed her commentary, but then she began chatting with Merrill and Aveline, and I was hooked.

With Aveline, Isabela shows no romantic inclinations or commentary. She's the teasing sort that loves to tweak Aveline's so-serious nose, but you could tell that she did it in a good-natured way. Between the two of them, Isabela helps Aveline become more self-confident while retaining her unique brand of humor. That's just the kind of person Isabela is.

With Merrill, you have two parallel paths. One path is big sisterly concern for the naive elf. Their talks show that Isabela isn't quite as pleased with her own life as she might lead everyone to believe, but she's subtle about it so it's easy to miss. When Merrill starts commenting about the romance with Hawke (and comment she does, they have like 4 different romance-related banters), it's easier to get a feeling of how guarded Isabela is, but still see small things sneak through.

It certainly isn't perfect, but the picture you get from just the romance conversations isn't sufficient for a full view of the character. Isabela isn't for everyone (despite her reputation), but she certainly wormed her way into my heart and feasted on my tender white flesh.

Wow.  Very interesting.  After seeing some of those banters I missed, I have to agree.  She may be the best written character in this game.  ...  Shame about the bandana though.

Abispa wrote...

As for Isabella, she's destined to be target practice for the Arishock. Bye bye.

How do people let the Arishok take her?  Even if I thought she deserved that kind of fate, the Arishok deserves to be slaughtered much more.  Hers was a theft.  An incredibly bold theft of something incredibly important, yes, but still just theft.  That.... animal planned a mass murder against innocent people while cowardly avoiding battling the one person he knew could challenge him until he had absolutely no choice, all while preaching about honesty and corruption.  I was angry there wasn't a more vengeful way to deal with those monsters.  I wanted to iniate combat by launching a fireball at their precious tome.  I wanted the Arishok to helpless watch the last bits of it burn to ash as he bleeds to death.  How can anyone merely let him walk away?

Abispa wrote...

I'm sure most of the STD rumors on Isabella are sick jokes by fans, but there are two moments in the game that indicate that she may be infected. A woman on the docks recognizes her and said Isabella has a special disease that the sailors have named after her. But the woman may have been mistaken or it could have been a mean rumor stated by sailors who didn't get any. And if you don't have Isabella in your party when you visit the clinic in the middle of Act II, there's a scene where Isabella is getting some medicine to treat a rash that Anders blames on her lifestyle, but Hawke says s/he didn't want to know.

You realize those, too, are "sick jokes" except by the developers right?