errant_knight wrote...
Oh, I see where you're going with this. Well, if we go back to having a game with choices, maybe there could be a choice between making the templars into allies of the crown or the wardens, in some capacity. Personally, I think that templars would be the safer long term choice.
This line from the codex about Kal'Sharok makes me think that the teasing is about it though.tmp7704 wrote...
On the map it seems to be between Orlais and Anderfels. So given that i think it may be something else... especially since we already knew since DAO Kal-Sharok didn't fall, so it's not something worth teasing about in such manner.Herr Uhl wrote...
Kal'Sharok is in Orlais (or maybe Tevinter).
Now consider the rock wraith.Kal-Sharok has had to do some very questionable things to survive, and now they are changed forever. But, it's believed that when the darkspawn invaded, the kings of the old empire retreated to Kal-Sharok, where they were able to defeat the darkspawn, but suffered heavy casualties.
Hence the living stone.Dwarven legends tell of dwarves so corrupt that even the Stone rejects them. Doomed to wander the Deep Roads in an undying half-life, these creatures are known as Rock Wraith, and they are creatures of hunger, wrath and little more.
Herr Uhl wrote...
Hence the living stone.
It seems most likely that's just a fluff description. Even if it's accurate lore information, it's not absolute, there's nothing that directly contradicts Alistair. There's nothing that says there's no other possible way to obtain templar abilities. I think information presented to us in dialogue that is made out to be rather significant is more dependable - after all, the fact that templars don't even really need lyrium was kind of a sore point for Alistair, not merely a line on a talent description.The Angry One wrote...
The specs themselves are ignored, but I see no reason why the descriptions behind these specs aren't part of the lore. The Templar one in particular contains new information on specifically how the ingested Lyrium gives a Templar power and magical resistance.
Koyasha wrote...
It seems most likely that's just a fluff description. Even if it's accurate lore information, it's not absolute, there's nothing that directly contradicts Alistair. There's nothing that says there's no other possible way to obtain templar abilities. I think information presented to us in dialogue that is made out to be rather significant is more dependable - after all, the fact that templars don't even really need lyrium was kind of a sore point for Alistair, not merely a line on a talent description.The Angry One wrote...
The specs themselves are ignored, but I see no reason why the descriptions behind these specs aren't part of the lore. The Templar one in particular contains new information on specifically how the ingested Lyrium gives a Templar power and magical resistance.
Modifié par The Angry One, 07 avril 2011 - 04:13 .
errant_knight wrote...
Then there's the question of the ancient thaig, why it was so different, and why the dwarves have no record of it. We really need to start a thread to put all the bits of info together.
I'd forgotten all about that! Good point! Thing is, I got the impression that something pretty dark may have been going on in that thaig, and that doesn't sound like a dwarves sheltering elves thing.Valentia X wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Then there's the question of the ancient thaig, why it was so different, and why the dwarves have no record of it. We really need to start a thread to put all the bits of info together.
For some odd reason, that made me think of Witch Hunt where Ariane mentions, in total surprise, how the Cadash dwarves sheltered elves fleeing Arlathan, and how they lived in peace until Kal'Hirol freaked and attacked Cad'halash. There's obviously some sort of sub-society of dwarves (or were) and it has some relevance in the greater history of the surface world.
Modifié par errant_knight, 07 avril 2011 - 04:24 .
errant_knight wrote...
I'd forgotten all about that! Good point! Thing is, I got the impression that something pretty dark may have been going on in that thaig, and that doesn't sound like a dwarves sheltering elves thing.Valentia X wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Then there's the question of the ancient thaig, why it was so different, and why the dwarves have no record of it. We really need to start a thread to put all the bits of info together.
For some odd reason, that made me think of Witch Hunt where Ariane mentions, in total surprise, how the Cadash dwarves sheltered elves fleeing Arlathan, and how they lived in peace until Kal'Hirol freaked and attacked Cad'halash. There's obviously some sort of sub-society of dwarves (or were) and it has some relevance in the greater history of the surface world.
Well, keep in mind that he makes it a point to say that the Chantry really doesn't like the secrets of templar training getting out. Combine that with the Chantry recruiting templars for loyalty and fanaticism first, and being shown to be rather not-nice at times when it comes to dealing with things it sees as a problem, and I find it entirely believable that they permit people to use lyrium to emulate a templar's abilities, but are ruthless when it comes to eliminating templars that teach others to use those abilities without the lyrium. At least they control the majority of the lyrium trade.The Angry One wrote...
It's a sore point for him because he may not need it. His background is unusual enough that it may come naturally. He isn't aware of that so he just assumes that the Chantry is lying.
Again fluff or not I just don't think they'd come up with this new information that turns out to be irrelevant when they could just say "Templar training is available for the right price from ex-members of the order blablabla".
This one is a really big question to me, I've tried to see if there's anything I missed or any information that seems related, but so far I haven't found anything. The dwarves do seem to have lost a great many records, and some were intentionally lost. The knowledge of what happened at Cad'halash was apparently intentionally kept from the Memories or something along those lines, if I remember right. Is the primeval thaig something else like that, which the dwarves intentionally left out, or does it simply date to a time so ancient that it extends to before the Memories?errant_knight wrote...
Then there's the question of the
ancient thaig, why it was so different, and why the dwarves have no
record of it. We really need to start a thread to put all the bits of
info together.
Rifneno wrote...
IanPolaris wrote...
Fair enough and she (apparently) wasn't lying about her name. I'm quickly running out of things she doesn' lie about. Really starting to dislike the 'new" Lelianna.
-Polaris
Agreed. They need to stop completely changing pre-existing characters when a new character serves the same purpose just as well. First Anders and Justice declare jihad, now Leliana was lying the whole time?
And for the growing "maybe Leliana is a title" crowd (which I honestly thought was just a joke at first): if this wasn't the same one from DAO, there wouldn't be a scene where Isabela recognizes her and cracks a joke if the Warden threesomed them in DAO.
Modifié par Conduit0, 07 avril 2011 - 05:48 .
Herr Uhl wrote...
Somebody wrote...
Kal'Sharok doesnt have access to the surface though. You have to go through the deep roads to get to it.Herr Uhl wrote...
Kal'Sharok is in Orlais (or maybe Tevinter). The story might be going there.tmp7704 wrote...
Speaking of which, there's interesting tidbit from the broken golem in DA2, how "The Stone lives under Orlais." Wonder where they're going with that...errant_knight wrote...
Yeah, we probably shouldn't forget the thaig that's older than dwarves have history. I can only think of one reason that dwarves don't have records of that, and it's because they really, really don't want to remember.
They have free access to the surface now. Otherwise they wouldn't be known at all.
Conduit0 wrote...
What I find interesting about the whole situation is that Fereldan stands to go from being just a podunk backwater country to potentially being the most powerful nation in Thedas. We already know that boon or not Alistair and Anora are openly pro-mage and shelter apostates. If Fereldan's pro-mage stance is public knowledge, than it would stand to reason that many, if not most of the mages rebelling would flee to Fereldan. This could potentially give Fereldan not just a circle, but an entire mage army at its disposal. Taking things even further, its also possible that if Fereldan chooses to directly oppose the Chantry, that Orzammar might throw their lot in with Fereldan, afterall if the Chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade ends, Orzammar will be richer than its ever been.
.
nedpepper wrote...
Kal Sharok is actually nowhere near Ferelden. It's on the border of Northern Orlais and the Anderfels. According to the official map. So if they do have access to the surface, they're probably dealing with Orlais or the Anders, kind of like how Orzammar deals with Ferelden. Those Deep Roads go a loooong way.
From what I understand, the rank and file mages in Tevinter aren't that much better off than mages in the rest of Thedas, its only the Magisters that have freedom and power. So I could maybe see some First Enchanters or a handful of other very high ranking mages heading there hoping to become a magister, for everyone else though, it wouldn't be much of an improvement.nedpepper wrote...
Conduit0 wrote...
What I find interesting about the whole situation is that Fereldan stands to go from being just a podunk backwater country to potentially being the most powerful nation in Thedas. We already know that boon or not Alistair and Anora are openly pro-mage and shelter apostates. If Fereldan's pro-mage stance is public knowledge, than it would stand to reason that many, if not most of the mages rebelling would flee to Fereldan. This could potentially give Fereldan not just a circle, but an entire mage army at its disposal. Taking things even further, its also possible that if Fereldan chooses to directly oppose the Chantry, that Orzammar might throw their lot in with Fereldan, afterall if the Chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade ends, Orzammar will be richer than its ever been.
.
I see a split. Some go to Fereldan, some go to Tevinter. Tevinter is not about to let this oppurtunity go to waste...
Orzammar's surface entrance is most certainly in Fereldan, so any dealings with Orlais would require dwarven envoys crossing the border into Orlais.Herr Uhl wrote...
nedpepper wrote...
Kal Sharok is actually nowhere near Ferelden. It's on the border of Northern Orlais and the Anderfels. According to the official map. So if they do have access to the surface, they're probably dealing with Orlais or the Anders, kind of like how Orzammar deals with Ferelden. Those Deep Roads go a loooong way.
Did I say it was near Ferelden? And Orzammar doesn't deal more with Ferelden than Orlais.
Conduit0 wrote...
What I find interesting about the whole situation is that Fereldan stands to go from being just a podunk backwater country to potentially being the most powerful nation in Thedas. We already know that boon or not Alistair and Anora are openly pro-mage and shelter apostates. If Fereldan's pro-mage stance is public knowledge, than it would stand to reason that many, if not most of the mages rebelling would flee to Fereldan. This could potentially give Fereldan not just a circle, but an entire mage army at its disposal. Taking things even further, its also possible that if Fereldan chooses to directly oppose the Chantry, that Orzammar might throw their lot in with Fereldan, afterall if the Chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade ends, Orzammar will be richer than its ever been.
Conduit0 wrote...
From what I understand, the rank and file mages in Tevinter aren't that much better off than mages in the rest of Thedas, its only the Magisters that have freedom and power. So I could maybe see some First Enchanters or a handful of other very high ranking mages heading there hoping to become a magister, for everyone else though, it wouldn't be much of an improvement.nedpepper wrote...
Conduit0 wrote...
What I find interesting about the whole situation is that Fereldan stands to go from being just a podunk backwater country to potentially being the most powerful nation in Thedas. We already know that boon or not Alistair and Anora are openly pro-mage and shelter apostates. If Fereldan's pro-mage stance is public knowledge, than it would stand to reason that many, if not most of the mages rebelling would flee to Fereldan. This could potentially give Fereldan not just a circle, but an entire mage army at its disposal. Taking things even further, its also possible that if Fereldan chooses to directly oppose the Chantry, that Orzammar might throw their lot in with Fereldan, afterall if the Chantry's stranglehold on the lyrium trade ends, Orzammar will be richer than its ever been.
.
I see a split. Some go to Fereldan, some go to Tevinter. Tevinter is not about to let this oppurtunity go to waste...
Koyasha wrote...
As far as I know, there's no such information given. There's no time when we're told 'all templars need lyrium and Alistair was lying'. We have an absolute example of a templar who does not need lyrium in Alistair, and nothing in the story that clearly changes his explanation. At best, lyrium makes a templar's talents more effective. Maybe.The Angry One wrote...
Speculation on the plot is one thing, but you're saying we can't rely on information because they might change it later.
As it is now with the information we have, Templars need Lyrium. End of story.
Modifié par TobiTobsen, 07 avril 2011 - 06:59 .
Well, there is the argument of Alistair's special heritage, but its also possible that what Alistair was actually refering to is that maybe you don't need as much lyrium as the chantry gives them. In other words, maybe only small amount of lyrium is needed to make the templar powers work, but the Chantry intentionally gives them much larger doses to get them addicted.TobiTobsen wrote...
Koyasha wrote...
As far as I know, there's no such information given. There's no time when we're told 'all templars need lyrium and Alistair was lying'. We have an absolute example of a templar who does not need lyrium in Alistair, and nothing in the story that clearly changes his explanation. At best, lyrium makes a templar's talents more effective. Maybe.The Angry One wrote...
Speculation on the plot is one thing, but you're saying we can't rely on information because they might change it later.
As it is now with the information we have, Templars need Lyrium. End of story.
Alistair is a main character... main characters have the tendency to be special and/or ignoring the rules of the setting.
If the informations about the Templar class in DA2 says that you need to snort specially prepared lyrium to use your talents, then that's the way it is. Alistair is just a special snowflake because he is supposed to be the wardens best buddy and potentialy the next king of Ferelden. And who would make a drug addict the next king?
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