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[Raiil]

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

[Wulfram]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I wrote an Empress/Divine smut, the Empress would definitely be on top.

The current Divine is in a horrible position politically. She's unpopular, her reign has seen massive upheaval, and her base of power (Orlais) is ruled by someone who seems more interested in the sciences and arts than religion.

If Orlais' army moves, it will be because the Empress thinks this is a good thing, not because the Divine says it's the Maker's will.

Celene is having trouble controlling her nobles ambitions to reconquer Ferelden as it is.  If the Divine gave war with Ferelden her backing, I doubt Celene could resist it.

[AshenEndymion]

Valentia X wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Have fun pulling an Exalted March when your own Circles are in revolt, your military has left you, and the qunari are at your back.

I'm sure Orlais would be happy to oblige, if the Divine chose to make them reclaiming their recalcitrant province a holy duty.

If I wrote an Empress/Divine smut, the Empress would definitely be on top.

The current Divine is in a horrible position politically. She's unpopular, her reign has seen massive upheaval, and her base of power (Orlais) is ruled by someone who seems more interested in the sciences and arts than religion.

If Orlais' army moves, it will be because the Empress thinks this is a good thing, not because the Divine says it's the Maker's will.

The Stolen Throne indicated that the Chantry heirarchy is very tangled in Orlesian pollitics, they wouldn't put Meghren on the Ferelden throne untill the Chantry declared that it was the will of the Maker

And that's the other knot, because it seemed to me that the will of the Maker and the will of the very Orlesian Divine were, coincidentally, one and the same. 


I wonder- how often is there a Divine who isn't Orlesian? Because she's very, er papal, and I always envisioned it ran the way the Popes do- usually Italian, though there are blips on the radar from time to time.

Perhaps the current Divine took a page out of the Borgia playbook on how to become Pope when every elector hates your ethnicity.

Edit:  I.E. Bribery, threats, and outright murder.  Leliana isn't her right hand for looks and sex. (well, not only those reasons)

Modifié par AshenEndemion, 06 avril 2011 - 08:39 .

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

It could be both. Factions of templars fighting each other. That would be interesting, wouldn't it? The Chantry does seem ripe for a new schism. 

Modifié par errant_knight, 06 avril 2011 - 08:40 .

[_Somebody]

errant_knight wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

It could be both. Factions of templars fighting each other. That would be interesting, wouldn't it?

They should put a Tevinter nuke in the Cathedral Chantry in Val Royeaux and end it.

[Maria Caliban]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I wrote an Empress/Divine smut, the Empress would definitely be on top.

The current Divine is in a horrible position politically. She's unpopular, her reign has seen massive upheaval, and her base of power (Orlais) is ruled by someone who seems more interested in the sciences and arts than religion.

If Orlais' army moves, it will be because the Empress thinks this is a good thing, not because the Divine says it's the Maker's will.

The Stolen Throne indicated that the Chantry heirarchy is very tangled in Orlesian pollitics, they wouldn't put Meghren on the Ferelden throne untill the Chantry declared that it was the will of the Maker

This is true, but Celene wasn't Empress during The Stolen Throne.

If you look at the Catholic Church, it's strength waxed and waned over time. Sometimes it worked well with various emperors and kings while other times it didn't. Right now, the Chantry is weak and its leader is weak. The current Divine needs to watch her steps because, I'm guessing, if she were to fall horribly ill or die in her sleep, there are many who wouldn't mind seeing her replaced.

[Raiil]

errant_knight wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

It could be both. Factions of templars fighting each other. That would be interesting, wouldn't it? The Chantry does seem ripe for a new schism. 

If that's the case, then the templars who favour not blasting every mage they see into orbit would probably be running to Ferelden as well. Alistair has the luxury of knowing how well a mage and a templar can fight together (since Morrigan and Alistair are both forced into your party for a short period of time), and Anora's too damn intelligent to not figure it out on her own. If he or she is looking to build an army with maximum nukage, enticing mages and friendly templars would be a pretty good start.

[_Somebody]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I wrote an Empress/Divine smut, the Empress would definitely be on top.

The current Divine is in a horrible position politically. She's unpopular, her reign has seen massive upheaval, and her base of power (Orlais) is ruled by someone who seems more interested in the sciences and arts than religion.

If Orlais' army moves, it will be because the Empress thinks this is a good thing, not because the Divine says it's the Maker's will.

The Stolen Throne indicated that the Chantry heirarchy is very tangled in Orlesian pollitics, they wouldn't put Meghren on the Ferelden throne untill the Chantry declared that it was the will of the Maker

This is true, but Celene wasn't Empress during The Stolen Throne.

If you look at the Catholic Church, it's strength waxed and waned over time. Sometimes it worked well with various emperors and kings while other times it didn't. Right now, the Chantry is weak and its leader is weak. The current Divine needs to watch her steps because, I'm guessing, if she were to fall horribly ill or die in her sleep, there are many who wouldn't mind seeing her replaced.

But the Orlesian Nobles are already wanting to go to war, if the divine gives the go ahead, there wont be much celene can do to stop it. The Divine gets her Exalted March without having to use her templars.

Wouldnt she have to worry more about the mages that are rebelling in Orlais? I imagine that they have or had a pretty large circle there.

[Patriciachr34]

If I remember correctly, one of the bartender's rumors in Act 3 says that the divine is getting old and needs to name a replacement soon. Just at the height of mage/templar unrest, the divine is going to kick it and leave a vacuum of power in the chantry. DA3 is sounding really good right now.

[errant_knight]

Somebody wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

It could be both. Factions of templars fighting each other. That would be interesting, wouldn't it?

They should put a Tevinter nuke in the Cathedral Chantry in Val Royeaux and end it.

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

[_Somebody]

errant_knight wrote...

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

I thought it would be the mages goal to overthrow the Chantry? (Or was that just Anders plan?)

Modifié par Somebody, 06 avril 2011 - 08:50 .

[errant_knight]

Valentia X wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

Has it been confirmed how the templars rebelled? I mean I've seen where people think they basically became rogue mage-hunters, but isn't possible that some went in the opposite direction? There seems to be two schools of thoughts with templars: those who think they're there to 'oppose' all a mage is, and others who are there to protect mages as much as they are supposed to protect from mages.


Kirkwall shows that if nothing else, the Chantry is not nearly as united in doctrine as it likes to present.

It could be both. Factions of templars fighting each other. That would be interesting, wouldn't it? The Chantry does seem ripe for a new schism. 

If that's the case, then the templars who favour not blasting every mage they see into orbit would probably be running to Ferelden as well. Alistair has the luxury of knowing how well a mage and a templar can fight together (since Morrigan and Alistair are both forced into your party for a short period of time), and Anora's too damn intelligent to not figure it out on her own. If he or she is looking to build an army with maximum nukage, enticing mages and friendly templars would be a pretty good start.

Sure would. It would put Ferelden in an excellent position. Which means that something bad would happen. It always does when things look too positive.

[errant_knight]

Somebody wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

I thought it would be the mages goal to overthrow the Chantry? (Or was that just Anders plan?)

That's what Anders wants, and no doubt other mages do to, but they probably want to be free, not destroy the church entirely. They haven't all suddenly become atheists.

[Raiil]

Somebody wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

I thought it would be the mages goal to overthrow the Chantry? (Or was that just Anders plan?)

Well, apparently the mages, Andrastrian or not, rolled with it, since they kicked their plate-wearing overlords in the junk and rode off for liberty, freedom, and a place where rooms actually came with doors.


I'm sure there are more than a few mages who wished to blast the Divine- as the head of the orgainsation that perpetually jails them- into next decade.

[AshenEndymion]

Somebody wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

I thought it would be the mages goal to overthrow the Chantry? (Or was that just Anders plan?)

You can't "overthrow" the Chantry any more tha someone could "overthrow" the Catholic church.

Seriously ask yourself what would happen if a tangible group (and not a crazy madman) killed the Pope and/or blew up the Vatican.  The same would happen in Thedas.  It would probably be worse in Thedas as 70% of the total population are Andrasteans, whereas on earth, less than a third of th epopulation is Catholic.

[Raiil]

errant_knight wrote...

Somebody wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Who's 'they?' I'm willing to bet that even most mages don't approve of what Anders did, and wouldn't want to see it happen again. Most people are Andrastean. A popular ruler might be able to replace the Orlesian Chantry, but they couldn't do away with it. I don't think they's want to, being Andrasean, too.

I thought it would be the mages goal to overthrow the Chantry? (Or was that just Anders plan?)

That's what Anders wants, and no doubt other mages do to, but they probably want to be free, not destroy the church entirely. They haven't all suddenly become atheists.

One doesn't have to be a Chantry supporter to have faith though. It's not a matter of being, say, Wynne or Leliana, or being Morrigan. Middle ground does exist.

[The Angry One]

thurmanator692 wrote...

They also have a Metric ****ton of templars, i don't have very high hopes for a rebellious Orlesian Circle. and if its the same First Enchanter from The Calling, I don't see them being too excited for revolution

The Templars who have, again, revolted.

[_Somebody]

thurmanator692 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

They also have a Metric ****ton of templars, i don't have very high hopes for a rebellious Orlesian Circle. and if its the same First Enchanter from The Calling, I don't see them being too excited for revolution

The Templars who have, again, revolted.

All of them?

The Order itself has broken apart from the Chantry, if I remember correctly. 

[The Angry One]

thurmanator692 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

They also have a Metric ****ton of templars, i don't have very high hopes for a rebellious Orlesian Circle. and if its the same First Enchanter from The Calling, I don't see them being too excited for revolution

The Templars who have, again, revolted.

All of them?

If not all, then most. Varric says the Templars have risen up against the Chantry, and Cassandra doesn't dispute this.

[AshenEndymion]

The Angry One wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

They also have a Metric ****ton of templars, i don't have very high hopes for a rebellious Orlesian Circle. and if its the same First Enchanter from The Calling, I don't see them being too excited for revolution

The Templars who have, again, revolted.

All of them?

If not all, then most. Varric says the Templars have risen up against the Chantry, and Cassandra doesn't dispute this.

Just because it's not disputed doesn't mean it's true...