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[Raiil]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

'to hunt the mages' seemed to infer that the Seekers are- not the templars. It's not stated specifically, at least I heard it, that the templars themselves are necessarily going awol to do what the Chantry would be telling them to do in the first place.

To the layman Seekers and Templars are the same. Which is probably why Varric asks why Cassandra even cares.

Varric's not your average citizen, though; he knows and has friended mages and templars (he'll say so when Merrill asks him); he's more likely to know the difference, I would think. Varric trades in information; he'd be the sort to know that difference.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yet Seekers are a secretive segment of the Chantry. If the Templars are the Chantry's sword, then the Seekers are the dagger hidden behind their back (so to speak anyway). To the average citizen the two appears however to fulfill the same role: enforece chantry law and hunt appostates, the Seekers are just more "elite". Even then Cassandra's response is: "Not all of us desire war", so either some Seekers also abbandoned the Chantry, or she is just playing along the popular thought that they are the same.

[AshenEndymion]

Even though Varric identifies Cassandra as a Seeker, he says "you" when he talks about the Templars abandoning the Chantry, and Cassandra responds with "Not all of us desire war."

Seekers may think of themselves as Templars...

[Raiil]

AshenEndemion wrote...

Even though Varric identifies Cassandra as a Seeker, he says "you" when he talks about the Templars abandoning the Chantry, and Cassandra responds with "Not all of us desire war."

Seekers may think of themselves as Templars...

I doubt that the Seekers see themselves as templars- perhaps as another military arm, but only just.


You can be the Chantry. I thought Varric spoke to Cassandra as if he regarded her as the 'mouth' of the Chantry itself.

[errant_knight]

I had the impression that Seekers were basically internal affairs, policing the templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

They are. They just aren't Templars. They also find and eliminate exterior threats to the Chantry, and can be sent to capture/kill a particularly cunning apostate. At least not according to the wiki.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 06 avril 2011 - 09:50 .

[AshenEndymion]

Valentia X wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Even though Varric identifies Cassandra as a Seeker, he says "you" when he talks about the Templars abandoning the Chantry, and Cassandra responds with "Not all of us desire war."

Seekers may think of themselves as Templars...

I doubt that the Seekers see themselves as templars- perhaps as another military arm, but only just.


You can be the Chantry. I thought Varric spoke to Cassandra as if he regarded her as the 'mouth' of the Chantry itself.

From the Epilogue, templar ending:

Varric - "In fact, haven't the templars rebelled as well?  I thought you decided to abandon the Chantry to hunt the mages."
Cassandra - "Not all of us desire war, Varric."

There are a number of different ways to interpret that, really....

[Raiil]

 

There are a number of different ways to interpret that, really....

I agree, and from that statement I inferred that the Seekers are, not the templars. I'm sure some of the templars went batcrap crazy and hunted the mages, but for every templar that seems hellbent on seeing the mages as the hand of the devil, there's a templar who acts as if they're human beings who shouldn't be treated like wild animals (Thrask, for example. Even Emeric, who seems to be concerned for his missing mage's safety more than her just being an apostate.)

[Ealos]

thurmanator692 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Yet Seekers are a secretive segment of the Chantry. If the Templars are the Chantry's sword, then the Seekers are the dagger hidden behind their back (so to speak anyway). To the average citizen the two appears however to fulfill the same role: enforece chantry law and hunt appostates, the Seekers are just more "elite". Even then Cassandra's response is: "Not all of us desire war", so either some Seekers also abbandoned the Chantry, or she is just playing along the popular thought that they are the same.

If this were the case, they wouldn't have a uniform, and she wouldn't have used "I am Cassandra Pentaghast, Seeker of the Chantry" as her introduction

She probably just can't help gloating. Anyway, it's in the best tradition of the secret service: "the name's Bond. James Bond. Er, I mean, a totally anonymous person of whom you've never heard, not involved in anything suspicious, don't worry. (That was close, but I think I got away with it.)"

[KnightofPhoenix]

Since the boon can only be asked with 1/6 wardens, out of 4 or 5 choices, I doubt what's happening is that important.

Unless Ferelden opted to free its Circle regardless.

[AshenEndymion]

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

[Ealos]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Ealos wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Yet Seekers are a secretive segment of the Chantry. If the Templars are the Chantry's sword, then the Seekers are the dagger hidden behind their back (so to speak anyway). To the average citizen the two appears however to fulfill the same role: enforece chantry law and hunt appostates, the Seekers are just more "elite". Even then Cassandra's response is: "Not all of us desire war", so either some Seekers also abbandoned the Chantry, or she is just playing along the popular thought that they are the same.

If this were the case, they wouldn't have a uniform, and she wouldn't have used "I am Cassandra Pentaghast, Seeker of the Chantry" as her introduction

She probably just can't help gloating. Anyway, it's in the best tradition of the secret service: "the name's Bond. James Bond. Er, I mean, a totally anonymous person of whom you've never heard, not involved in anything suspicious, don't worry. (That was close, but I think I got away with it.)"

Alright, we disregard the fact that she has a doofus introduction, she still walks out in her fancy neverwinter armor to meet up with Leliana in her fancy neverwinter armor, and then they walk outside to their legion of soldiers in fancy neverwinter armor. Not very secret organization-like

Aw, it's no fun if people don't know you have a secret organisation though! I mean, they have an unopenable book in Kinloch Hold about the Seekers - when you can't read it the codex says "The Seekers guard their secrets well". Totally wanted you to know they had secrets though, otherwise they wouldn't have written it. Just gloating...

Mind you, would be interested to know how many there are, that posse was quite large, so it doesn't seem to be just half a dozen agents. Unless that was a full company outing.

I thought the fact that Leliana was an agent of the Divine who favoured Seeker armour implied that she was a Seeker.

Modifié par Ealos, 06 avril 2011 - 10:13 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Since the boon can only be asked with 1/6 wardens, out of 4 or 5 choices, I doubt what's happening is that important.

Unless Ferelden opted to free its Circle regardless.

Essentially it has.  I've played with both the boon and without it, and while a couple of lines of dialog shift slightly, what King Alistair/Queen Anora has done in Fereldan essentially has not.  Essentially in Fereldan the crown has removed (by force) Chantry oversight over mages and make it a royal perogative.  He (She) doesn't (yet) have the raw military power to kick out the Templars in the Tower, but outside the tower, the Chantry/Templar have no legal authority anymore to hunt/regulate mages, and Fereldan is openly accepting and protecting apostates from elsewhere.

As I see it, Fereldan is one small step away from a Chuch of England type schism with the main Chantry especially given the resentment against Orlais (again my take on what is said but what I say above is what you are told).

-Polaris

[_Somebody]

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

She is a Seeker.

[IanPolaris]

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

Left hand of the Divine?  She sounds like a seeker to me.  Given her sudden hatred towards magic in DA2, I have to wonder if she was a seeker all along and played the Hero of Fereldan for a fool.  If so, then I wish I had killed her on top of that mountain.....

-Polaris

[_Somebody]

IanPolaris wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

Left hand of the Divine?  She sounds like a seeker to me.  Given her sudden hatred towards magic in DA2, I have to wonder if she was a seeker all along and played the Hero of Fereldan for a fool.  If so, then I wish I had killed her on top of that mountain.....

-Polaris

Its a conspiracy. 

[Ealos]

IanPolaris wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

Left hand of the Divine?  She sounds like a seeker to me.  Given her sudden hatred towards magic in DA2, I have to wonder if she was a seeker all along and played the Hero of Fereldan for a fool.  If so, then I wish I had killed her on top of that mountain.....

-Polaris

Except that she's immortal so it wouldn't have helped...though might have made you feel better

[AshenEndymion]

Somebody wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

She is a Seeker.

Somehow I don't think "Hand of the Divine" is a Seeker title...

It's like assuming Hawke is a templar just because he wears Templar armor...

[Ealos]

But Hawke is the protagonist, you know that no-one really changes their clothes in Kirkwall. Plus that would mean a lot of the Templars could have been fakes (or even empty suits of armour left around to look intimidating) - as Anders says, who can tell?

[_Somebody]

AshenEndemion wrote...

Somebody wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

She is a Seeker.

Somehow I don't think "Hand of the Divine" is a Seeker title...

It's like assuming Hawke is a templar just because he wears Templar armor...

Yes because thats the same thing...

If Leliana is not a Seeker, then why would they give her that armor?

[AshenEndymion]

Somebody wrote...

Yes because thats the same thing...

If Leliana is not a Seeker, then why would they give her that armor?

Because she's the Hand of the Divine, and she is infiltrating the Seekers for some reason? Why isn't she in her Seeker uniform 3 years prior when she talks to Hawke? Probably because she's the Hand of the Divine, in town covertly?

I just don't see Leliana taking the demotion... Unless "Hand of the Divine" equates to "Supreme Commander of the Seeker order."

[TobiTobsen]

Somebody wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Somebody wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

But Leliana isn't a seeker.... so her being in the fancy armor really doesn't mean anything, does it?

She is a Seeker.

Somehow I don't think "Hand of the Divine" is a Seeker title...

It's like assuming Hawke is a templar just because he wears Templar armor...

Yes because thats the same thing...

If Leliana is not a Seeker, then why would they give her that armor?

Leliana is a Seeker. Maybe she always was one. The trinket she starts with in Origins is called Seeker's Circle. So maybe she fooled the Warden all along. Who knows?