297 réponses à ce sujet

[neppakyo]

Otterwarden wrote...

Meesherbeans wrote...

There was a role to play, and a story to play through. You may not have appreciated how little say you had in how the story progressed, and I totally respect that opinion, but it's just that: an opinion. You are still taking a character and playing through their role: their story.

As for the "real question," that is a good question. I don't know the answer, or if there even is one. I am, however, beginning to see why people who actually like DA2 don't post on these forums. It's kind of sad.

Don't be sad...nobody wants sad. 

I'm even a fan of the shared character tale when it is implemented well.  Have both a paragon and renegade Shepard to prove it.  Yet, this kind of consensus script play needs to find its own genre so that people know in advance what they are buying into, and it really probably should not have snatched a beloved gameplay away from DA:O fans.  They are kinda sad about that

Very sad, with equal parts of nerd rage.

Modifié par neppakyo, 07 avril 2011 - 04:15 .

[Lord_Valandil]

Otterwarden wrote...
Don't be sad...nobody wants sad. 

I'm even a fan of the shared character tale when it is implemented well.  Have both a paragon and renegade Shepard to prove it.  Yet, this kind of consensus script play needs to find its own genre so that people know in advance what they are buying into, and it really probably should not have snatched a beloved gameplay away from DA:O fans.  They are kinda sad about that

*Sigh*
Indeed. More than angry or disappointed, I'm actually sad.

[Meesherbeans]

Otterwarden wrote...

Don't be sad...nobody wants sad. 

I'm even a fan of the shared character tale when it is implemented well.  Have both a paragon and renegade Shepard to prove it.  Yet, this kind of consensus script play needs to find its own genre so that people know in advance what they are buying into, and it really probably should not have snatched a beloved gameplay away from DA:O fans.  They are kinda sad about that

And that is fair enough. I knew what I was getting into when I bought DA2, so it doesn't bother me. Heck, I wasn't even going to buy it until about a week before it came out because of the more Mass Effect-style story of "have options but overall it's more decided than not." I only preordered after playing the demo and going "damn, it'll be a fun ride at least."

I think we all deserve a round of hugs. http://tinyurl.com/hugsforeveryone

Modifié par Meesherbeans, 07 avril 2011 - 04:17 .

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...
Just having a character avatar to equip does not constitute a role playing game either.

God damn thats a good line, pretty funny. But sad at the same time cause its true.

Ah, that cuts to one of my major disappointments perfectly!  I likened elsewhere to the old Disney Land ride of the cars on rails.  You had the illusion of driving but you never could swerve off the rail.

[Otterwarden]

Meesherbeans wrote...

I think we all deserve a round of hugs. http://tinyurl.com/hugsforeveryone

Too precious

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...

Meesherbeans wrote...

There was a role to play, and a story to play through. You may not have appreciated how little say you had in how the story progressed, and I totally respect that opinion, but it's just that: an opinion. You are still taking a character and playing through their role: their story.

As for the "real question," that is a good question. I don't know the answer, or if there even is one. I am, however, beginning to see why people who actually like DA2 don't post on these forums. It's kind of sad.

Don't be sad...nobody wants sad. 

I'm even a fan of the shared character tale when it is implemented well.  Have both a paragon and renegade Shepard to prove it.  Yet, this kind of consensus script play needs to find its own genre so that people know in advance what they are buying into, and it really probably should not have snatched a beloved gameplay away from DA:O fans.  They are kinda sad about that

Very sad, with equal parts of nerd rage.

Same here. I don't want to chase those who love it off. I am very sad about the game along with Lord V and you guys too.

[Pariah00]

Otterwarden wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...

The logic forming here is that the premise of DAII is that it is not an RPG.

The witcher and planescape torment are not RPGs.

For many people they are RPG-lite because of the narrowed customization.  Don't personally fall into this camp, but did understand when DA:O players scoffed at the Witcher because of the single character option.  I prefered both those games to DA:O, but here we have developers who have moved away from their own RPG creation to provide much less than they had the first time round.  That is what makes it an RPG-lite.

Say what you will about The Witcher, buuuuut...
*puts on theatrically dramatic countenance and clears comically empassioned voice* 
Don't dare utter such ghastly lies about Planescape! For shame, Serah.

Kidding aside, there is one major difference between DA2 and PS:T that goes far beyond the whole predetermined character thing- Choices in ROLE-playing through the story.  Oh, so many choices.  That's why, while people may dislike being TNO in all its gender and appearence predetermined glory, most people don't consider it not an RPG (at least not in serious circles).  The whole gender and appearence thing is so superficial in comparison the depths found elsewhere in that game.

edit: 'command x' is not always your friend when posting

Modifié par Pariah00, 07 avril 2011 - 04:23 .

[erynnar]

Meesherbeans wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...

Don't be sad...nobody wants sad. 

I'm even a fan of the shared character tale when it is implemented well.  Have both a paragon and renegade Shepard to prove it.  Yet, this kind of consensus script play needs to find its own genre so that people know in advance what they are buying into, and it really probably should not have snatched a beloved gameplay away from DA:O fans.  They are kinda sad about that

And that is fair enough. I knew what I was getting into when I bought DA2, so it doesn't bother me. Heck, I wasn't even going to buy it until about a week before it came out because of the more Mass Effect-style story of "have options but overall it's more decided than not." I only preordered after playing the demo and going "damn, it'll be a fun ride at least."

I think we all deserve a round of hugs. http://tinyurl.com/hugsforeveryone

And *HUGS* back to you too!<3

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

[Otterwarden]

Pariah00 wrote...

Say what you will about The Witcher, buuuuut...
*puts on theatrically dramatic countenance and clears comically empassioned voice* 
Don't dare utter such ghastly lies about Planescape! For shame, Serah.

Kidding aside, there is one major difference between DA2 and PS:T that goes far beyond the whole predetermined character thing- Choices in ROLE-playing through the story.  Oh, so many choices.  That's why, while people may dislike being TNO in all its gender and appearence predetermined glory, most people don't consider it not an RPG (at least not in serious circles).  The whole gender and appearence thing is so superficial in comparison the depths found elsewhere in that game.

edit: 'command x' is not always your friend when postin

Preaching to the choir... PS:T is my favorite by far and away... closest I ever came to blurring the lines between myself and the character.  Played it as the intellectual, so relatively few battles and the greatest choice options... loved every minute... simply the best.

Edit:  Passed it up when it first came out because of the gamebox art.  Had recently tried Fallout and it wasn't my cup of tea, and I thought the story was going to revolve around some nuclear catastrophe because of his looks.  Finally picked it up when the cult following gathered some steam.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 07 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[neppakyo]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

So, does that mean we can duel him? Then after that, sacrifice him to the dragon?

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

neppakyo wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

So, does that mean we can duel him? Then after that, sacrifice him to the dragon?

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact he chose the avatar of a character that betrays you under the veil of a greater cause that he believes is right.

[Otterwarden]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

xbox360.ign.com/articles/115/1158662p1.html

Have you checked out his favorite quote from the game?

[Barefoot Warrior]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

So, does that mean we can duel him? Then after that, sacrifice him to the dragon?

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact he chose the avatar of a character that betrays you under the veil of a greater cause that he believes is right.

OK, now that's just out right scary.     

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Otterwarden wrote...

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

I can't believe I just noticed that Laidlaw's avatar was Loghain.

Eerily fitting.XD

xbox360.ign.com/articles/115/1158662p1.html

Have you checked out his favorite quote from the game?

Well he never claimed to be classy.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

To be fair none of those lines on their own are that great.XD

[neppakyo]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

To be fair none of those lines on their own are that great.XD

Damn, your observations are scary..

and most of those quotes are silly and cater to the teens and drunk college kids..

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Lol most of those quotes weren't funny. The Flemeth one was appalling. Lol.

But I'm partial to the Anders and second Varric quotes, myself.

[Nashiktal]

I don't see how DA2 is "RPG-lite." It is of course an action rpg, but that doesn't make it a lesser rpg.

Dragon age origins has less choices than Oblivion, which in turn had less choices than fallout 2.

All this is proving that the "Scale" in which people are judging rpg's is flawed and inconsistent. DA2 is an rpg. Outside of the streamlining/trimming down of skills what has changed? Combat is largely the same, only faster. (Arguably easier depending on how well you build your character. Rogue classes are beast.) Your character speaks, but you still have a relatively similar number of conversations "lines" from DA:O. Three "tones" and a varying number of investigative lines.

Companions having limited armor is granted as a factor of whether or not its good for the game. (As in, opinion if you like it or not.) However that doesn't determine whether the game is an rpg or not. I don't remember Jade empire being bashed for a lack of armor choices for example.

I will admit the limited impact on story as valid though. I attribute that to the nature of the story itself, and not on whether or not the game is an rpg.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Nashiktal wrote...

I don't see how DA2 is "RPG-lite." It is of course an action rpg, but that doesn't make it a lesser rpg.

Dragon age origins has less choices than Oblivion, which in turn had less choices than fallout 2.

All this is proving that the "Scale" in which people are judging rpg's is flawed and inconsistent. DA2 is an rpg. Outside of the streamlining/trimming down of skills what has changed? Combat is largely the same, only faster. (Arguably easier depending on how well you build your character. Rogue classes are beast.) Your character speaks, but you still have a relatively similar number of conversations "lines" from DA:O. Three "tones" and a varying number of investigative lines.

Companions having limited armor is granted as a factor of whether or not its good for the game. (As in, opinion if you like it or not.) However that doesn't determine whether the game is an rpg or not. I don't remember Jade empire being bashed for a lack of armor choices for example.

I will admit the limited impact on story as valid though. I attribute that to the nature of the story itself, and not on whether or not the game is an rpg.

Not sure if trolling.

[Finnigan McBonk]

Otterwarden wrote...

Meesherbeans wrote...

...A role playing game is a game where you play a role. This does not mean it'll be a role of your choosing; only that you will be put into the shoes of a character. In this case, Hawke was the character. Some may not appreciate this fact, but that does not take Dragon Age 2 out of the RPG category. Everyone is allowed to love, hate, or not care about DA2; but please don't call it "not an RPG." It is. It's just one you don't like.

If you read the post directly above yours you will understand how some feel there was "no role to play".  It was simply a story told, to observe nothing less.  Choose side A or side B the conclusion will be the same.  Just having a character avatar to equip does not constitute a role playing game either.

It's a fine distinction that can be debated until the cows come home, but the real question is "Why does an RPG developer want to be on the borderline of what constitutes an RPG?"  Very nebulous territory with fewer fans I suspect.

There you go... dictating to us what the "real" question is. Here is a ... different... question. At the end of the day, is it the fact that a game package includes the letters "RPG" that determines whether the game is entertaining, or is it the actual content of the game? And another question... is there a specific formula to which all "RPG" games ever made have conformed? And, finally, is there any hypocrisy to a fanbase clamoring for "choice" while accusing the developer of "changing?"

[xkg]

Game packge includes "RPG" letter doesnt determine mentioned entertaining but it is telling you "If you like RPG this is game you should buy to be entertained"
They you fire that game up - but instead of playing promised RPG you gets smah button hack&slash awesome tm game - there when your (at least mine) entertaining ends
Put on package "warrning - this is no real RPG game" and i wont buy it and i wont say single word as i wont even care

Modifié par xkg, 07 avril 2011 - 11:05 .

[Finnigan McBonk]

xkg wrote...

Game packge includes "RPG" letter doesnt determine mentioned entertaining but it is telling you "If you like RPG this is game you should buy to be entertained"
They you fire that game up - but instead of playing promised RPG you gets smah button hack&slash awesome tm game - there when your (at least mine) entertaining ends
Put on package "warrning - this is no real RPG game" and i wont buy it and i wont say single word as i wont even care

Fair enough. Yet this one is of the opinion - and it is opinion - that that one's first statement holds true for DA2. "If you like RPG this is a game you should buy to be entertained."

This one likes RPGs.
DA2 is advertised as an RPG.
This one likes DA2.

This one is neither compelled to launch a wall of text defending nor defiling the game. This one was entertained. That is all this one requires from a videogame.

[FlintlockJazz]

Just gonna say one thing that's been buzzing around my head: was DAO called Origins because it was supposed to be the origin story for your character? Their start so to speak? Naming the entire game after the half-hour origin stories at the start isn't exactly representative of the game, obviously Bioware decided to do a major reboot instead.

[Tommy6860]

erynnar wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

1000questions wrote...

All the long explanation boils down to one thing in the lengthy post. 

I liked the game, I dont care about your opinon if you dont like it even if it is logical,rational or honest criticism.

Well, somehow I dont care about the plea made in the end too.

By all means, criticise. What I wanted to illustrate with that disclaimer was how I've grown tired of being accused of being willfully blind or a hired goon through the most incongruous speculation, simply for having a positive stance on the subject.
So if you want to address my points, go right ahead. But I would appreciate it if you didn't attempt to discredit me by reducing my argument to a single sentence.

About as tired as I am of being called a "hater" and a narrow minded RPG'er who just wants another epic save the world story (two archdemons stapled together to make  super Blight, which I find to be a highly insulting comment) and an exact copy of DAO. As tired as I am of being told that a story in which my protagonist does nothing to change the world, so much as she piddles around deciding who to sleep with while she waits for the the world to go BOOM (no spoilers) and does nothing about it because she can't due to the story being in flashback. I am tired of being told it's so much more nuanced and complex, when really it's not (I can't go into that here no spoilers). And I don't like a cinematic movie with some combat thrown in.

But that is what I don't like. I don't hate the game there are things I loved about it, some I liked, the majority of it  disappoints me, and a good portion felt disjointed and confusing.. I didn't go in with expectations (no going on the forum, and when friends would talk or specuate I hated it). I went into it with no expectations and I still wound up disappointed. It feels shallow, rushed, and not worthy of BioWare. And it is not a sequel to DAO, so it's name shouldn't be DA2. It should be DA "The Kirkwall Adventures," I think. That would have kept disappointment at bay somewhat.

Now, my opinion is like a certain smelly body part...so,  I am very glad for those who got their monies worth. I love that you love it, simply for the fact that I prefer to be a lover not a fighter (my claws come out only if you like that sort of thing...heheh):innocent: Seriously, we can all agree to disagree. I am hoping they take the best of DAO instead of stripping it out completely, fix what was broken, do the same for DA2 and meld the two.  OH NOES! It will be the DA 3 MEGA HARVESTER!!!!!

I really love this response. The ending rejoinder was a classic that made me smile!!
:happy: