297 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Silvernight wrote...

erynnar wrote...

This one wished they had a similar experience. *waves tentacles in sadness* But alas, this one did not. However, this one agrees with the noting of the characters talking to each other outside of talking to Hawke. This one will update that like on the reviews and constructive critcism threads by BioWare..  This one thanks you for something this one forgot. A terrible oversite! This one is trying to give both positive and negative feedback in a constructive manner.

This one is happy to help.

*HUGS*

[Otterwarden]

Tommy6860 wrote...

I like Fallout 1,2 and especailly 3. They were certainly different kinds of RPGs, but they played like an RPG, but you were only one person. F3 had some of the best humor and characters I have ever experienced. I know some say they are shooters, but that is over-simplifying how it really plays out. I do agree with you on PS:T, that game I played about 10 times over. I also really liked Gothic 2, though it didn't translate well to English. Icewind Dale, Morrowind, any of the Ultima series from the mid 80s to early 90s and Wizardry 8. But my absolute all time is BG1&2 with Origins a close second. I can name quite a few more, but you get the point what games I like.

This one has often wondered if they were too quick to judge Fallout... however, still has not been enticed by You Tube promos.  This one also has fond memories of being chased by blood flies while waiting for access into the Monestary, leading a stellar team through Icewind Dale, solving riddle chests in Krondor, pouring over stat tables in BG1 & 2, and laughing hysterically at Deekin in NW SoU.  For all these reasons, this one really identified with this message left by the one named skwervin:

BTW - 45 yr old gamer who has been using pc's since she was 18, played more games than I really want to list  and if something is sold to me as an RPG, then there had better be RPG in it!

This one chose to hire a Drell to play DA2.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 07 avril 2011 - 09:15 .

[Tommy6860]

Pariah00 wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Otterwarden wrote...

Pariah00 wrote...

Say what you will about The Witcher, buuuuut...
*puts on theatrically dramatic countenance and clears comically empassioned voice* 
Don't dare utter such ghastly lies about Planescape! For shame, Serah.

Kidding aside, there is one major difference between DA2 and PS:T that goes far beyond the whole predetermined character thing- Choices in ROLE-playing through the story.  Oh, so many choices.  That's why, while people may dislike being TNO in all its gender and appearence predetermined glory, most people don't consider it not an RPG (at least not in serious circles).  The whole gender and appearence thing is so superficial in comparison the depths found elsewhere in that game.

edit: 'command x' is not always your friend when postin

Preaching to the choir... PS:T is my favorite by far and away... closest I ever came to blurring the lines between myself and the character.  Played it as the intellectual, so relatively few battles and the greatest choice options... loved every minute... simply the best.

Edit:  Passed it up when it first came out because of the gamebox art.  Had recently tried Fallout and it wasn't my cup of tea, and I thought the story was going to revolve around some nuclear catastrophe because of his looks.  Finally picked it up when the cult following gathered some steam.

I like Fallout 1,2 and especailly 3. They were certainly different kinds of RPGs, but they played like an RPG, but you were only one person. F3 had some of the best humor and characters I have ever experienced. I know some say they are shooters, but that is over-simplifying how it really plays out. I do agree with you on PS:T, that game I played about 10 times over. I also really liked Gothic 2, though it didn't translate well to English. Icewind Dale, Morrowind, any of the Ultima series from the mid 80s to early 90s and Wizardry 8. But my absolute all time is BG1&2 with Origins a close second. I can name quite a few more, but you get the point what games I like.

I think these two bolded lines have a lot of truth for me. 

Fallout 3 is vastly different than, say, BG but both (indeed all of the games you mentioned that I have also played) succeed in one common thing:  Blurring the line between me and the game/character- they are more or less designed with this concept in mind.  It's a totally subjective thing and near impossible to explain, but I think it's real (and certainly replicable) and it has everything to do with why I enjoy the ME games but don't really consider them RPGs and why I can't view DA2 as an RPG. 

Many of us play video games as a form of escape and I have never found a more potent way to escape. 

Fallout 3 has ****** poor dialogue (in terms of meaningfulness), companions that are nothing more than extra fire power, and an after thought "story" in an sandbox world where exploration is the only worthy goal but when my character dresses up like Abraham Lincoln, complete with his repeater, and wages a full on assualt on the Slavers that's all me.

It's not pretermined characters, insofar as both Hawke and TNO are "predetermined," its how the game and the character are designed- with the player at the forefront conceptually or the writers?  Hawke comes alive via one of the scripts you choose and limited course of actions you take.  Combine that with gameplay one considers good and you have a game that I can see why people would enjoy but it is a far, far cry from creating the player-centered experience of many other RPGs.

Hope that made sense and sorry for the rant.

No rant taken here :-). Your points are valid, it just dpends on how one feels when they are playing the role. I felt I was developing my only possible character in a certain direction, by personality, their traits and their ability. Can change the ending of the game for good or evil, etc. I can only say that while the wizards and warriors only enthusiasts call Fallout 3, etals, shooters, that they base that notion of their preference of D&D and W&W only type games. I hear the same thing with Mass Effect, because it doesn't have their elements of preference. When I think shooters, I think little direction to no direction, no other game styled goal to develop your character other than to do missions with various weapons with little dialogue, and heavy use of grinding down enemies from area to area. All I can say is, the easiest means to make game not what it is, is to give an overly simpilified basis on how that game works, and Fallout 3, isn't as simplified as some say it is. It most certainly isn't along the lines of Origins, that's for sure, but it is most certainly an RPG.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 07 avril 2011 - 09:46 .

[blauwvis]

This one wishes to applaud the OP and add support. This one also enjoyed both DA2 and DA:O, and recognizes that both games - in fact, all games this one has ever played - were flawed. Having observed the cycle of hype and disappointment play out for the fans of many titles, over many years, this one believes in careful management of expectations, and is confused by those who do not. A game is what it is, regardless of the wishes of fans or the promises of developers. That a game like DA2 was made and played and enjoyed is enough for this one.

[Tommy6860]

erynnar wrote...


Aw! Thanks! Really, I do respect those who love it. I am agreeable to to agreeing to disagree. I see other's points of views, as long as we don't call each other names and belittle. I am not into that.

Exactly!
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

[Otterwarden]

Tommy6860 wrote...

erynnar wrote...


Aw! Thanks! Really, I do respect those who love it. I am agreeable to to agreeing to disagree. I see other's points of views, as long as we don't call each other names and belittle. I am not into that.

Exactly!
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

This one agrees with the sentiment, but it is also what has disturbed this one so much.  If the intentions were to broaden the base and grow the market, why start a civil war?  Retooling on this level was bound to be devisive, therefore, this one feels compelled to Illuminate the Folly of the Dancers.

www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/index.html
"We certainly knew there would be some friction between what Origins
players have come to expect and what Dragon Age II delivers."

Modifié par Otterwarden, 07 avril 2011 - 09:53 .

[cpmd4]

/applaud

Just want to add that I too enjoyed this game, even more than Origins! Here's to more great installments by BioWare! Now when can we get some DLC?

[Tommy6860]

Otterwarden wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

erynnar wrote...


Aw! Thanks! Really, I do respect those who love it. I am agreeable to to agreeing to disagree. I see other's points of views, as long as we don't call each other names and belittle. I am not into that.

Exactly!
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

This one agrees with the sentiment, but it is also what has disturbed this one so much.  If the intentions were to broaden the base and grow the market, why start a civil war?  Retooling on this level was bound to be devisive, therefore, this one feels compelled to Illuminate the Folly of the Dancers.

www.gamespot.com/features/6305575/index.html
"We certainly knew there would be some friction between what Origins
players have come to expect and what Dragon Age II delivers."

Good points, but I really don't think EA wanted to start a civl war, as they were attemtping to latch into the bigger market of gamer proclivities. I sometimes have to really catch my own words as not to reflect cycnicism, though my reaction (like in this case for DA2) can be cause for such. I can take giving cynicism when the mouth-piece of their products all but but warrants it; Laidlaw's and especailly Silverman's own words certainly can allow for it.

[Otterwarden]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Good points, but I really don't think EA wanted to start a civl war, as they were attemtping to latch into the bigger market of gamer proclivities. I sometimes have to really catch my own words as not to reflect cycnicism, though my reaction (like in this case for DA2) can be cause for such. I can take giving cynicism when the mouth-piece of their products all but but warrants it; Laidlaw's and especailly Silverman's own words certainly can allow for it.

Few rarely intend to start one, but my point was that given what happened with the changes from ME1 to ME2 Bioware had plenty of forewarning that there was enough tinder to ignite one.  They simply miscalculated that there was an untapped gaming segment that would save the day, and the calvalry seems to be playing Crysis 2 at the moment (well at least EA is happy about that).

About that cynicism...

The hanar have two names, a "face name" and a "soul name." The face name is used as a general label for use by strangers and acquaintances. The soul name is kept for use among close friends and relations, and tends to be poetic. For example, a hanar known for its cynicism may take a  name that means "Illuminates the Folly of the Dancers."

This one is still waiting for a "peacemaker" achievement badge to be uploaded to the profile.  Honestly though, that dragon is too cute.  Never seen anybody so enthusiastic about market research :happy:

Modifié par Otterwarden, 08 avril 2011 - 12:24 .

[Tommy6860]

Otterwarden wrote...


Few rarely intend to start one, but my point was that given what happened with the changes from ME1 to ME2 Bioware had plenty of forewarning that there was enough tinder to ignite one.  They simply miscalculated that there was an untapped gaming segment that would save the day, and the calvalry seems to be playing Crysis 2 at the moment (well at least EA is happy about that).

I guess there's a corollary there, but ME2 is much different than the case of DA2. ME2, at least followed the premise of its predecessor, DA2 just about completely misses the premise of Origins; there's a very defined difference between the two franchises at this point. Even the overall system was fairly maintained in ME2 from ME. I know that ME2 got a lot of flack from ME enthusiasts and I was one who was a little disappointed. But after playing through it again, I was more impessed as I found I was more "cynical" and less objective in the first run. Note though, that ME2 didn't suffer the backalsh that DA2 has so far, in-as-far that sales seem to be suffering hugely. Add that EA offering ME2 for free with a purchase of DA2, seems to have them think that the success of ME2 may entice one to get DA2.

About that cynicism...

The hanar have two names, a "face name" and a "soul name." The face name is used as a general label for use by strangers and acquaintances. The soul name is kept for use among close friends and relations, and tends to be poetic. For example, a hanar known for its cynicism may take a  name that means "Illuminates the Folly of the Dancers."

This one is still waiting for a "peacemaker" achievement badge to be uploaded to the profile.  Honestly though, that dragon is too cute.  Never seen anybody so enthusiastic about market research :happy:

That would be an achievement apropos for dialogue/discussion officiating .

[Otterwarden]

Tommy6860 wrote...

That would be an achievement apropos for dialogue/discussion officiating .

Exactly!  And it is not easy in this environment... the dialogue wheel doesn't always say what I intend!!

[LeBurns]

Dang you guys are just way to agreeable...

[Tommy6860]

LeBurns wrote...

Dang you guys are just way to agreeable...

Actually that's not true. I disagree with those who I have found to respect the most here. But it is more out of critical thinking and civil discourse, and not just pure criticism. Being able, and especially being critical of my own thoughts is something I do before I make responses here; at leat I really try to. There's no reason not to have civility in discussions such as these and not have it mean that it is simply being "agreeable" for agreement's sake.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 08 avril 2011 - 01:40 .

[Otterwarden]

LeBurns wrote...

Dang you guys are just way to agreeable...

You are in a Hanar thread...

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Hanar

The hanar are a species resembling Earth's jellyfish and are one of the few non-bipedal Citadel l races. Hanar are known for their intense politeness when speaking....

Modifié par Otterwarden, 08 avril 2011 - 01:44 .

[LeBurns]

Well that ... makes a whole lot more sense.
...
...
but I'm still right. 

Modifié par LeBurns, 08 avril 2011 - 01:52 .

[Tommy6860]

Otterwarden wrote...

LeBurns wrote...

Dang you guys are just way to agreeable...

You are in a Hanar thread...

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Hanar

The hanar are a species resembling Earth's jellyfish and are one of the few non-bipedal Citadel l races. Hanar are known for their intense politeness when speaking....

LOL, then again, I have yet to be called a "stupid jelly"

[LeBurns]

Tommy6860 wrote...

LOL, then again, I have yet to be called a "stupid jelly"

Just don't start preaching without a license.

[Tommy6860]

LeBurns wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

LOL, then again, I have yet to be called a "stupid jelly"

Just don't start preaching without a license.

This one does not want to cause trouble, this one will leave (for now) to find forgiveness at the alters of the Ekindlers.

[neppakyo]

Tommy6860 wrote...

LeBurns wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

LOL, then again, I have yet to be called a "stupid jelly"

Just don't start preaching without a license.

This one does not want to cause trouble, this one will leave (for now) to find forgiveness at the alters of the Ekindlers.

*gets the damned Hanar a license just to shut it up* There! *walks away shaking his head*

[Blackshayde]

erynnar wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Blackshayde wrote...

I apologize for insulting anyone, this was my first post, and I wasn't aware of the rules.  I just had to jump off the sidelines because I can't believe this game is getting bad reviews.

A lot of folks are claiming that the game lacks merit because its RPG elements have been "dumbed down"; I don't understand why the simplification of the inventory system in this game is obviously an issue, but when Bioware completed GUTTED the inventory system in Mass Effect 1, people didn't seem to care and it didn't affect the overall stellar ratings that game got.  

And if people claim that dumbing down includes making the game "too easy",  I had a damned hard time on Nightmare, and I consider myself a very skilled player, so I'm not sure where that's coming from.  And the complexity of the combat system is essentially still there, you can still pause and have complete control over party members.  The combat may be "flashier", but its essentially the same engine under the hood.  

Here are a few flaws to the game to give you some perspective.

Recycled Environments/Instances/Beastiary is very bad for a game and an embarrassment for a company like Bioware.

This must be your first Bioware game; all of their games use recycled areas and Beastiary. 

All enemies in DA: 2 were trained by Mystical Ninjas – their new training providing them with the
ability to appear out of thin air, and complete back flips in full plate armor.

WRONG.  Only rogues can backflip, and they don't use plate armor.  At least in D&D, rogues 
can have uncanny dexterity, and these movements are in harmony with that concept.  And you
think a 100 pound Elf can swing a 75 pound Greatsword like its a baseball bat?  Get real.  RPGs
aren't true to physics.  Origins was certainly no exception.  The appearing out of thin air is a 
simulation of a sneak attack/ambush.

Limited Dialogue/Interaction with Companions – What makes a great Companion? Well for me, it’s getting to know that companion and learning about their past, challenges they have faced the mistakes they have made, and their motivations. People don’t want two dimensional stereotypes. What was that Isabella? We can't talk now? Why not? Hello Isabella are you there? She was just talking to me, guess I have to wait for the next act.

Obviously you didn't give the NPCs a chance to banter.  And they will banter a lot.  
       
Lack of Race/Character Customization – The Origins was one of the greatest features of Dragon age. I can understand that EA has taken control and you will now cut corners/costs but you could have at least written Hawke as an elf, dwarf, or human. What is also interesting is that according to Bioware very few people played more than one play through, yet that is not apparent on the Bioware Social forum that has many users with multiple achievements for completed more than origin story. And why did Bioware not consider how many of those players that only did a single play through, what origin did they play. Human, Elf, or Dwarf.

This is a minor, insignificant gripe.
 
Very little choices affect the world around you – Consequences..What consequences? I'm a Blood Mage walking around the gallows flaunting my power. Choices I made in the first game, were retconned by Bioware or simply made not to matter. One of the biggest appeals to the game was that choices made in the first game would carry over, or why even bother giving them the choices in the first place. 

Hmmm, I don't think you actually finished the game. 

Little to No Replay Value – Choices in the game simply don’t matter, and doesn’t impact/change the journey in any way. The changes in dialogue depending on friendship/rivalry are not worth trudging through the game to here a few different lines of dialogue.

Most RPG fans don't replay for dialogue, if you want that, go watch a soap opera.  People replay for the 
satisfaction of a different class and different party combinations.  Some people have even beaten[/i]
the game on Nightmare with a three-mage party.

Inability to Upgrade Companion Armor/lack of Inventory – The reasoning for this was so the companion does not lose its uniqueness. If that was true, then why is the player forced to lose its uniqueness and is required to spend several hours regaining it. Last I checked that was part of the fun, and was not restricted to a single character. Oghren, for example looked much better in the warplate of the fallen. The real problem here that Bioware didn't want to tackle was how plain many of the leather/robe armors were. 

Its a major hassle to deal with companion inventory, get over it.  I don't hear you complaining about
Mass Effect 2.  And why is making a game more efficient mean its bad?
       
Since Bioware decided to remove the ability to gear companions armor, 90% of generate drops that would have been useable was vendored. On top of that, there is nothing more redundant then getting mage armor for your warrior or rogue and warrior and rogue gear for your mage.

Lazy Side Quests – turn in random item to random generated npc - So, um why am I returning someone’s pants and ribcage to them. How on Thedas, do I know who these belong too and where to even find them.

Crafting – Marginalized – why not just take it out completely and replace it with a Pill Dispenser.

Trees/Abilities/Specializations – less variety – what happened to the Bard, Ranger, Arcane Warrior,
Shapeshifter, Battlemage, Keeper, Legionnaire Scout, and Spirit Warrior? The answer is simple, cost and time that Bioware is no longer willing to spend.

Are you kidding?  There are just as many, if not more tree choices, and better overall customization.
For example, I can play two completely different types of rogue with this game: a combat rogue
(duelist etc...) or a sneaking rogue (Shadow talents  etc...)

Dual Wield - restricted to the Rogue class. It seems warriors forgot how to in DA:2.

Companion Roles - Relying on just Anders to be a healer and locking companions to one fighting style is a grievous error. It forces the player to bring certain companions instead of leaving that choice to the player. In DA: Origins, we decided which character was the healer, who was the tank, the archer, and so on.

Ummm, Merrill can be a healer as well as Hawke.  

Tactical Combat: Passed the game on Nightmare – No tactics required, nor did I have to use the cross class combos too win. The only challenged I faced was to make sure none of my party members killed each other. Which they were more adept at doing then killing the bad guys.

That's what everyone says: do me a favor, and prove it.  Recorded your exploits on FRAPS and post
the video.  And you're gonna tell me you never ever flanked a target throughout the whole game? 

You’ll have to forgive me, I did try to make this list a small one but they are just way to many glaring issues in the game. But, hey at least combat was sped up a bit. If you want to see all the other problems, drop by the constructive criticism thread.

'Awesome, totally awesome', Jeff Spicoli would have been proud! I agree with this post. May I reference this from time to time, with credits of course, since it was succinctly and definitively put in easy to understand in  "WTF happened to Dragon Age 2"?

Feel Free, and even more in the constructive criticism thread.

I don't need to read any more nonsense.  I've read enough in your post.  
I love that list! Very succint and lays it out right. Thanks sweetie.

Modifié par Blackshayde, 08 avril 2011 - 02:45 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ah...I miss the good old days.. The days when you had tons of options, different ways to tackle a quest - sometimes even different areas to visit based on your decisions.

The days where you could convince the big bad he was wrong (and talk him into commiting suicide) or the days where you could give the Big Bad the ultimate middle finger, by avoiding his speech entirely and blow him up wihout him ever seeing you.


Ah..BG2...Fallout. The Glod Standard of RPG's:crying:


EDIT:
Merrill can heal? Wutyoutalkingabout?
Companions in DA2 are redicolously specialized.

[snackrat]

I felt a bit sad Merrill couldn't be a Spirit Healer, given she was already communing with a 'spirit'. Alas. But many agree she would be too overpowered were that the case.

[Narreneth]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Ah...I miss the good old days.. The days when you had tons of options, different ways to tackle a quest - sometimes even different areas to visit based on your decisions.

The days where you could convince the big bad he was wrong (and talk him into commiting suicide) or the days where you could give the Big Bad the ultimate middle finger, by avoiding his speech entirely and blow him up wihout him ever seeing you.


Ah..BG2...Fallout. The Glod Standard of RPG's:crying:

I don't even know where to begin with this.  It all boils down opinion.  Quit asserting that your opinions are fact.  I don't have the energy nor the time to address this in full.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

EDIT:
Merrill can heal? Wutyoutalkingabout?
Companions in DA2 are redicolously specialized.

Haha. English much?