297 réponses à ce sujet

[axl99]

And all we're seeing here are opinionated users who are inexplicably compelled to enforce their opinion on others - all the while while enforcing their "love" for DA:O by bashing the sequel.

This was never a topic about liking/hating DA:O. This is a topic about the OP's discomfort about the sheer amount of negative criticism about DA2 on these forums.

Ok. A bajillion fans hate that game. You hate DA2. Good for you. That just goes to show how much you actually give a damn.

[1000questions]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

I, for one, am a very long time RPG fan, beginning with D&D pen and paper around 1979-1980, and have played many cRPGs since the mid to late 80's, my favorite at around that time being the original Pool of Radiance series published by SSL for the C-64 on 5.25" floppy disks, and later the Baldur's Gate series, NWN, up through DA: Origins and DA II.

Quite frankly, I enjoyed them all, and I can point out faults in every cRPG I have ever played. One thing I learned in all my years of playing computer games of any kind is that when I hear of a new game I have been waiting for, is to keep my expectations realistic.

I pay attention to what the developers are telling us, and take everything said by everyone with a healthy grain of salt. When I am interested, I buy the game and when I play a game, I develop my own opinions based on my perceptions of what the Developers were attempting to create when developing the game, judging each game on its own merit, as opposed to directly comparing every little detail to its predecessor, especially when the developer has already stated that the game will be different in some manner.

Keeping my expectations firmly grounded, I began my first run through DA II open-minded as I already knew DA II would be very different from Origins, based on the premise the Developers stated for DA II; A game focused on a specific Human family and the Champions rise to power, that we would be assuming the role of a single family member, etc.

In essence, the clues were all there as information was forthcoming in these very forums during pre-release.

In the end, I was not disappointed at all. and I really do enjoy DA II. This game isn't perfect, but neither are any other of my favored games I previously mentioned. I am currently working on playing Origins and completing some of those games with very different endings to import those into DA II just for the fun of it and to see the differences and how they may affect the character I play based on those particular histories...

Thank you for enlightening us about your experience in games. In your most , please do correct me if I am wrong, you echoed one major point and that is to keep the expectations right . If the expectations are/were set right before playing the game it wont be a disappointment.Here I would ask you a few questions. 

Isn't setting the expectations right the responsibility of the developer,marketing,pr team. As I stated earlier too the expectations were more or less set high by EA/Bioware itself through their advertisements and other medium. Infact I quoted one of the opening statements made by EA/Bioware about the game which sets the tone for it or sets the expectations.

If it wasnt the intention then why did EA/Bioware said " Experience the Epic Sequel...... etc etc etc, Go deeper into DA world ..... etc etc etc. " and the title had "2" . It is DA2 so that did set the expectations. They talked about fluidity of combat, the change of story line elements. The naration aspect etc but why didnt they said ruining,crafting will be almost eliminated, skills like poison making,herbalism,trap making will be ripped off. 

You are expecting an average gamer who loved DA:Origins and likes bioware game to go around and take notice of fine clues given in between where as the whole marketing echoes a different sentiment. 

It is a bit odd...

[Norskatt]

It baffles me how some people think that you can't honestly like both games and appreciate the difference between the two. I love DA:O but, I also love DA:II.

[axl99]

This one believes DA2 haters are wasting too much time in this thread, and in these forums. Take a break. You guys need it.

[CaimDark]

While this one liked DA2 and is by no means a "hater", This one was also severely let down by DA2 and doesn't think  DA2 is an example of stellar game design by any stretch of the imagination, but to each his own and the OP is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. This one also recognizes that this whole "this one" thing is getting old, but this one just can't help himself!

[axl99]

You're absolutely right JD, I am wasting too much time defending the OP's opinion in this thread. I'll go draw some pretty ladies.

Modifié par axl99, 06 avril 2011 - 11:39 .

[1000questions]

Pacifien wrote...

There is a genuine reluctance of people to post that they enjoyed this game on this forum because their opinion will not be taken as logical, rational, or honest. Only criticism is allowed to be those three things.

Why is it happening ?  Shouldnt it be the other way around ?

You can use your sarcasm again or care to throw somelight on it if it is within the realms of your capability.

Thank You^_^

[axl99]

^Troll.

[Thepeak12]

Norskatt wrote...

It baffles me how some people think that you can't honestly like both games and appreciate the difference between the two. I love DA:O but, I also love DA:II.

Agreed, they both have their flaws but I dont think one is better than the other.

[Otterwarden]

Selene Moonsong wrote...

Quite frankly, I enjoyed them all, and I can point out faults in every cRPG I have ever played. One thing I learned in all my years of playing computer games of any kind is that when I hear of a new game I have been waiting for, is to keep my expectations realistic.

This one thinks that much of the anger is also due to lost potential of a very rich IP that was DA:O.  The push for an immediate sequel did not seem to come from the fans so much as it did from the publisher's desire to cash in, and their desire to make console friendly games.

Realism related to what... time constraints, knowledge of how business works...What is limiting your expectations?  If your point is that one is less likely to be disappointed if one sets the bar low to begin with, I have to agree, however, the pragmatism also seems a bit defeatist.

BTW, this comes from someone who enjoyed "Pool of Radiance: The Ruins of Myth Drannor" (to give you an idea of how low my bar can be set )

[1000questions]

Norskatt wrote...

It baffles me how some people think that you can't honestly like both games and appreciate the difference between the two. I love DA:O but, I also love DA:II.

It baffles me too why you cant see that people find the reasons given in support of liking the game more unfathomable not the fact that x,y or z likes the game.

[Twulfster]

@axl99

This one admires your sensible attitude concerning the topic. Also your choice of charismatic headgear.

Off-Topic

Love your work, just had a nosey at your cghub link!

[Stegoceras]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Now, I'm perfectly aware that several people are just waiting to dissect the bilge above in an attempt to prove me wrong through some absurdist empirical study of "good" and "bad".
But I couldn't care less.
I got my money's worth. And I got an experience I cherish.
If you cannot say the same, I'm very sorry. But please stop insinuating that your perceived insight into the matter is objective truth.

I guess that's the problem here, both sides have merits and keep trying to persuade the others that theirs is the only way.
I just think a lot of people here have to make the decision to stop trying to force their opinions. State them and leave them be, feel free to comment here and there but keep it civil, there currently seems to be too much bickering and name-calling.

In the end Bioware will hopefully take close consideration of everyone's opinion and will learn the right lessons from the experience.

That all said I personally think the game was mediocre and if I would have to list it, it would probably be next to Gothic 4 on the list(which isn't a good thing). This isn't because it (to be honest) pales in comaprison to it's predecessors but because the game itself had elements I simply couldn't find no apprecaiton of (weak story/ugly interface/repetitive combat). I do however praise the maker of this post for his civil way of showing his appreciation for this game and hope more people would follow his example in the way of stating their opinions.

[Zjarcal]

Sabriana wrote...

However, I am observing that many, many posters resort to bashing DA:O to validate their "love" for DA 2. Including Bio employees.

Agreed. Bashing one game to validate the love for the other is not necessary. It works in both ways.

Sabriana wrote...
Guess what. I don't really care what *you* think of DA:O.

I doubt anyone really cares about what anyone else thinks. I for one love both Origins and DA2 and I don't care what anyone else thinks of that.

Sabriana wrote...
What really bugs me is that the people who are responsible for one of the best games in recent history think nothing of bashing it in favor to promote a far, far inferior sequel.

I really haven't seen any Bioware developer actually bashing Origins. They may have said they didn't like certain elements and wanted to change them (and they are well within their rights to do that, whatever anyone else thinks), but I really haven't seen any "bashing" of Origins from the developers themselves.

And I doubt they think they are promoting a "far, far inferior sequel".

Modifié par Zjarcal, 06 avril 2011 - 11:47 .

[Pacifien]

1000questions wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

There is a genuine reluctance of people to post that they enjoyed this game on this forum because their opinion will not be taken as logical, rational, or honest. Only criticism is allowed to be those three things.

Why is it happening ?  Shouldnt it be the other way around ?

You can use your sarcasm again or care to throw somelight on it if it is within the realms of your capability.

Thank You^_^

I can't describe to you why I like the characters of Dragon Age 2. I can't describe to you why I liked the storyline concerning the Arishok, the qunari, and their affect on Kirkwall. I can't describe to you how I find the story of a hero heading toward a decision demanded of him no matter what he does a compelling look into the concept of destiny. I can't describe to you how I find it interesting that a person would push to inevitable war by eliminating any obstacle that works for peace.

I am not capable of writing that essay for you. I can't simply discuss the game because I have to first defend even liking it. But this is my own fault because my chosen venue is the Dragon Age II General Discussion forum where discussing the game in detail isn't even allowed.

Instead, I did use my sarcasm to point out that when someone did try to explain it to you, you dismissed them because they have a fear that you were planning to dismiss their argument anyway. Which you did.

[Norskatt]

1000questions wrote...

Norskatt wrote...

It baffles me how some people think that you can't honestly like both games and appreciate the difference between the two. I love DA:O but, I also love DA:II.

It baffles me too why you cant see that people find the reasons given in support of liking the game more unfathomable not the fact that x,y or z likes the game.

I didn't really give reasons as to why I liked the game.. I just simply liked it. Why do people like chocolate ice cream over vanilla? They're both good and they're both ice cream.  Eat up & enjoy! 

[1000questions]

Norskatt wrote...

1000questions wrote...

Norskatt wrote...

It baffles me how some people think that you can't honestly like both games and appreciate the difference between the two. I love DA:O but, I also love DA:II.

It baffles me too why you cant see that people find the reasons given in support of liking the game more unfathomable not the fact that x,y or z likes the game.

I didn't really give reasons as to why I liked the game.. I just simply liked it. Why do people like chocolate ice cream over vanilla? They're both good and they're both ice cream.  Eat up & enjoy! 

I never said you are being dishonest  

Anyways , I like combination of both too.... 1 scoop of both 

[Lord_Valandil]

LiquidGrape wrote...

While I will readily agree that DA2 needed more development time to reach its full potential, I honestly cannot comprehend those who claim Origins was superiour in its storytelling and thematic contents.

The fundamental intrigue of Origins never added up to anything more than the proverbial "beat this reptilian manifestation of evil over the head with a big stick". A finely crafted big stick, and a big stick with the best of intentions, sure; but a big stick all the same. The more imaginative passages were consistently found outside of the main storyline.
Dragon Age 2, however, provided a truly subtextually dense experience. At times heavy-handed, I'll grant you that much, but with that level of ambition involved, I'm ready to ignore the occasional slip into rhetorics. The same applied to the more inspired moments of Origins and the Mass Effect series, after all.

Also, where Origins would present conflicts with seemingly only two possible solutions, often violent and diametrically opposed, it would more often than not gladly slap on a rather forced "everyone wins" scenario if you had accumulated an arbitrary amount of "persuasion points" or similar (read: Connor, Dalish, et al.).
DA2 grants you no such opportunity. The player's interaction with the conflicts portrayed are accounted for within the framework of what the developers thought was relevant for direct involvement. Origins story arc was just as linear, make no mistake, the difference here being that DA2 has the courtesy to tell a more focused and sequentially experimental story, with more emphasis on the personal and its struggle to adapt to a foreign place with a foreign political climate.

On the subject of personal, another point in DA2's favour: the characters exist outside the sphere of the player's bias and influence. Yes, you shape relationships with these people, friendly or otherwise, but at no point does their individuality give way for the benefit of fan wish fulfillment.
Isabela is likely the most complex romance in BioWare's catalogue. She doesn't fawn over Hawke, she doesn't fall head over heels in love simply because she recognises the player character upon first sight. Your relationship with her is built over a considerable timeline, and when/if you finally reach that point where she admits to having feelings she was previously unwilling to admit to herself, it feels like a real achievement, not only for Hawke, but for Isabela herself.
I've heard some people murmur about "pandering" in the light of the four love interests all being bisexual, but it's a non-calory problem and only an issue to those who are eager to find one. Had pandering being operative it would've been problematic, not to mention counter-productive, but the characters in question are so thoroughly developed that I never considered the notion.
I never had any reason to.

Now, I'm perfectly aware that several people are just waiting to dissect the bilge above in an attempt to prove me wrong through some absurdist empirical study of "good" and "bad".
But I couldn't care less.
I got my money's worth. And I got an experience I cherish.
If you cannot say the same, I'm very sorry. But please stop insinuating that your perceived insight into the matter is objective truth.

All right.
Expect an answer soon enough, and don't worry. I'm not going to flame you or something like that.

[fchopin]

This one likes vanilla ice cream.

[1000questions]

Pacifien wrote...

I can't describe to you why I like the characters of Dragon Age 2. I can't describe to you why I liked the storyline 
concerning the Arishok, the qunari, and their affect on Kirkwall. I can't describe to you how I find the story of a hero heading toward a decision demanded of him no matter what he does a compelling look into the concept of destiny. I can't describe to you how I find it interesting that a person would push to inevitable war by eliminating any obstacle that works for peace.

The execution of game didnt make the mark on most people considering the fact it is an rpg.Things are rather forced than intriguing.If DA2 would have been a game in different genre like adventure/action or something you arguements would be well accepted. 

Pacifien wrote...

I am not capable of writing that essay for you. I can't simply discuss the game because I have to first defend even liking it. But this is my own fault because my chosen venue is the Dragon Age II General Discussion forum where discussing the game in detail isn't even allowed.

Your decision.

Pacifien wrote...

Instead, I did use my sarcasm to point out that when someone did try to explain it to you, you dismissed them because they have a fear that you were planning to dismiss their argument anyway. Which you did.

 

So , if anyone says anything you dont need to validate on the basis of logic,rational etc ?

[xkg]

there is no excuse in calling this game "2" - remind me - what was DA:1 then because i cant remember seeing one - should be called DA:Hawke Stories or DA:Rising to Power
lets look - if Rambo 2 movie was about Vietnamese dude durning war trying to get his way into politics would that be ok to call it Rambo 2 ? would you say "oh it is still same setting still in Vietnam still durning war - just other story than Rambo 1" rly? because i would say "wth is this"

[MingWolf]

Finnigan McBonk wrote...

Alex Kershaw wrote...

'Unfair'

Metacritic score: 82
Worst Bioware RPG ever by quite some margin

You can state your opinion, but don't say that the majority are wrong or unfair.

I'm not sure what you intend to communicate here. You say a score of 82 is the worst bioware rpg ever by quite some margin? But it is still an 82.... That makes this game better than dozens, if not hundreds of other games out there And by a large margin, correct? You can state the majority opinion, but don't say that mine or anyone else's is wrong or unfair.

Just a quick comment about the 82. The 82 is based on a few select sites that offered reviews on the game. 42 in total. Looking at the user reviews, however, it might be interesting to note the following:

Discounting the fact that indeed some users may be a bit unfair in rating DA2, the user score is still 43 for the PC platform. Out of 269 RPG games released for the PC that is mentioned on that site, only 6 has a lower score than that 43 attached to DA2. Now, its hard to make an objective statement on that 43, given the difficulty in measuring what constitute as a fair review, but its still hard to discount the approval/disapproval of the 2,349 people who gave the game a rating.

Not saying yours nor anyone's opinion is wrong. It just doesn't seem as though its better than the hundreds, let alone the dozens. In the end, it doesn't really matter. Just thought I'd point that out since I had nothing better to do.

Modifié par MingWolf, 07 avril 2011 - 12:16 .