38 réponses à ce sujet

[solstickan]

Indeed. Just some tiny reaction from an NPC or a companion would have been very nice. I missed having to make a deal with a demon to unlock it as well. Though I usually imagine it happened sometime when I'm not playing her. It felt odd to have everything availiable from the go when you had to work for it in DAO...

Alas, too much work, too little time, it seems.

[legbamel]

Bekkael wrote...

legbamel wrote...
I thought at least a +15 rivalry for Fenris for taking the specialization would have worked. I do love it when my super-nasty blood mage yells, "I'm going to gut you, blood mage!" before using blood magic to do so, however.

Definitely LOL-worthy. The rivalry option would have been nice too...but it would have had to include other party members that disapprove of blood magic (like Anders). It could have also included a friendship increase from Merrill...or a fist bump in conversation. I'm easy to please.

A fist-bump would have had me on the floor.  I imagine merrill would miss the first time.  

[Bekkael]

legbamel wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

legbamel wrote...
I thought at least a +15 rivalry for Fenris for taking the specialization would have worked. I do love it when my super-nasty blood mage yells, "I'm going to gut you, blood mage!" before using blood magic to do so, however.

Definitely LOL-worthy. The rivalry option would have been nice too...but it would have had to include other party members that disapprove of blood magic (like Anders). It could have also included a friendship increase from Merrill...or a fist bump in conversation. I'm easy to please.

A fist-bump would have had me on the floor.  I imagine merrill would miss the first time.  

You're right, Merrill would probably look at your fist with a bewildered expression. Scratch the fist-bump cut scene.

[Masako52]

I seem to remember making Anders a blood mage in DA: Awakening. That was because I liked using blood magic, but it certainly makes Anders' freak out about blood magic in DA2 funny.

I also made Wynne a blood mage. For the lolz.

[Blze001]

legbamel wrote...
A fist-bump would have had me on the floor.  I imagine merrill would miss the first time.  

Mental image of Merrill taking a swing, missing, and falling flat on her face with a squeak while Hawke just slowly facepalms... priceless.

[Alren]

The PC should never have been given the option to be a blood mage. It just goes against the story. Being an apostate in Kirkwall in general doesn't make sense. The story of DA:2 is too narrow and restricting that a warrior (and maybe rogue in some areas) is really the only class that totally makes sense. A warrior would be hired as a protection on the deep roads expedition, the Arishok would only respect and challenge a warrior to a duel. Only a warrior (or maybe rogue) would be able to side with Meredith against the mages.

It always bothered me that you could spec Wynne as a blood mage. Her character would obviously never willing use blood magic. In fact there should have been a point where if you choose to spec into blood magic, Leiliana, Alistair, Wynne all decide to leave.

Having the characters talk about how bad blood magic is, then allowing the the PC to use blood magic and no one even mentions it takes the player completely out of the story

[sereture]

Masako52 wrote...

I seem to remember making Anders a blood mage in DA: Awakening. That was because I liked using blood magic, but it certainly makes Anders' freak out about blood magic in DA2 funny.

I remember there being ONE dialogue choice, back then, acknowledging him having the specialization.

[Bekkael]

Alren wrote...

The PC should never have been given the option to be a blood mage. It just goes against the story. Being an apostate in Kirkwall in general doesn't make sense. The story of DA:2 is too narrow and restricting that a warrior (and maybe rogue in some areas) is really the only class that totally makes sense. A warrior would be hired as a protection on the deep roads expedition, the Arishok would only respect and challenge a warrior to a duel. Only a warrior (or maybe rogue) would be able to side with Meredith against the mages.

It always bothered me that you could spec Wynne as a blood mage. Her character would obviously never willing use blood magic. In fact there should have been a point where if you choose to spec into blood magic, Leiliana, Alistair, Wynne all decide to leave.

Having the characters talk about how bad blood magic is, then allowing the the PC to use blood magic and no one even mentions it takes the player completely out of the story

You are right, of course. Impossible to be all things to all people/classes in a game, I guess. The devs have really done a stellar job, considering all the game needs to encompass for the three classes, and numerous specializations.

It's a fans' job to nitpick and whine, and I'm just doing my part. :innocent:

[Masako52]

Alren wrote...

The PC should never have been given the option to be a blood mage. It just goes against the story. Being an apostate in Kirkwall in general doesn't make sense. The story of DA:2 is too narrow and restricting that a warrior (and maybe rogue in some areas) is really the only class that totally makes sense. A warrior would be hired as a protection on the deep roads expedition, the Arishok would only respect and challenge a warrior to a duel. Only a warrior (or maybe rogue) would be able to side with Meredith against the mages.

It always bothered me that you could spec Wynne as a blood mage. Her character would obviously never willing use blood magic. In fact there should have been a point where if you choose to spec into blood magic, Leiliana, Alistair, Wynne all decide to leave.

Having the characters talk about how bad blood magic is, then allowing the the PC to use blood magic and no one even mentions it takes the player completely out of the story

I made Wynne a blood mage because it was funny, but honestly I agree. The only justification in my head I got was maybe on the journey to save the world, all your companions recognize that the actions they take are for the greater good. Blood magic is certainly bad in DA:O, but I half had to wonder if it wasn't just the stigma of blood magic rather than actual blood magic that was the big deal. Most of the blood mages we meet, as I remember, are perfectly "normal". For example, Jowan used blood magic out of desperation, he's not controlled by it. The Mage Tower blood mages were fighting for their freedom. In DA:O I assumed that blood magic was mostly just taboo in priniciple, because the reality was made clear that ALL mages are vulnerable to demonic possession. It wasn't just a blood mage thing.

So maybe Wynne could compromise herself for the power to end the Blight... I don't know.

Still, I do agree. Blood magic as a specialization is cool, but since it's such a huge plot element recognition of it would be nice. Logically, for Wynne and Anders, it should have been disabled completely (maybe unless you "hardened" them). Morrigan makes a good blood mage though, I think. lol

It's funny though, because I played DA2 as a male mage the first time through (I'm biased toward mages because it's the most fun... and easiest, tbh) and so Hawke is, in my head, a mage. It makes the romances better for one thing, imo, especially Fenris. And gives you more reason to hate Meredith. I can understand that after you're the Champion, you're too popular to just lock up in the Tower. At one point she threatens Anders with the same thing, which also felt funny - Anders is a Gray Warden, doesn't he have automatic clemency? Especially so soon after the Blight, it always seemed a little weird when Meredith says "the only reason we've tolerated you is because you're close to the Champion" or whatever.

[LobselVith8]

One of the failings of Dragon Age 2 is the lack of an apostate POV. As an illegal mage Hawke, we're never given any storyline that addresses the dangers of the templars, being discovered, having to deal with people who may try to use Hawke's apostate status against him (or her), or even the perils of our apostate companions Merrill and Anders.  Plenty of things don't make sense for an illegal mage Hawke coming to the Gallows, using magic right in front of the city guard and no one taking notice because everyone has selective amnesia when Hawke uses magic in front of them.

While I enjoy the mage class, no effort was made to really accomodate it into the storyline a despite what we know about the Chantry, the templars, and the fate of apostates in Thedas. I think the story would have benefited from addressing Hawke as an apostate instead of ignoring it almost entirely.

[Quasar7]

Alren wrote...

The PC should never have been given the option to be a blood mage. It just goes against the story. Being an apostate in Kirkwall in general doesn't make sense. The story of DA:2 is too narrow and restricting that a warrior (and maybe rogue in some areas) is really the only class that totally makes sense. A warrior would be hired as a protection on the deep roads expedition, the Arishok would only respect and challenge a warrior to a duel. Only a warrior (or maybe rogue) would be able to side with Meredith against the mages.

It always bothered me that you could spec Wynne as a blood mage. Her character would obviously never willing use blood magic. In fact there should have been a point where if you choose to spec into blood magic, Leiliana, Alistair, Wynne all decide to leave.

Having the characters talk about how bad blood magic is, then allowing the the PC to use blood magic and no one even mentions it takes the player completely out of the story

I agree.  It is especially weird when playing through as a mage, using blood magic, and confronting Meredith at every opportunity, at the end then, when Anders blows up the chantry, she turns to you.  So, apostate, friend of the apostate who has blown up the chantry, join with me in massacring the mages not responsible!  WTF?  Hey, I think if you play as a mage, Meredith should turn to ORSINO and say, let's put aside our differences and put down these murderous apostates!  Then fighting Orsino would have actually made sense.

Yes, I too was expecting SOME reaction to my practicing blood magic, from my companions at least.  Then I hear Fenris telling Anders that Hawke is not weak.  Maybe he is referring to the fact that I haven't morphed into an abomination and ripped their heads off?

[Quasar7]

EDIT: Deleted. Double post, sorry, thought my first had disappeared into the Fade...

Modifié par Quasar7, 10 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[Rabies]

It doesn't make sense, but from a development stand point it would have taken a lot more time and effort to work all that in. The story would have been drastically different. I try to justify it by thinking my Hawke is being deceptive about it...

"You used magic!"
"Yes, well I am with the Circle in Fereldan here. I'm accompanying these people."
"Oh, guess you're fleeing the Blight."
"Yes, exactly."

...and from there on you just don't use magic in the open - or you killed all the witnesses. Then it begins to make more sense. It's also not as if the templars had a handle on every mage in Kirkwall. We saw that firsthand with all the apostates running around and mages fleeing the Circle on a regular basis.

It just seems like the templars have bitten off more than they can chew, and their actions create a snowball-like effect. You combine this with the city being totally corrupt and open to graft and bribery and you can begin to see how Hawke could escape notice for all that time - at least up until becoming the Champion. Then he's just gained enough fame and political weight to tell Meredith to go stick her sword somewhere inappropriate.

[Bekkael]

LobselVith8 wrote...

One of the failings of Dragon Age 2 is the lack of an apostate POV. As an illegal mage Hawke, we're never given any storyline that addresses the dangers of the templars, being discovered, having to deal with people who may try to use Hawke's apostate status against him (or her), or even the perils of our apostate companions Merrill and Anders.  Plenty of things don't make sense for an illegal mage Hawke coming to the Gallows, using magic right in front of the city guard and no one taking notice because everyone has selective amnesia when Hawke uses magic in front of them.

While I enjoy the mage class, no effort was made to really accomodate it into the storyline a despite what we know about the Chantry, the templars, and the fate of apostates in Thedas. I think the story would have benefited from addressing Hawke as an apostate instead of ignoring it almost entirely.

I think that is really my issue. In DA:O, you have become a Grey Warden, so you aren't an illegal mage. If you are a blood mage, you could understand it being ignored a bit, cause, ya know, an archdemon trumps. Templars don't have jurisdiction over the Wardens, so you could basically flip them off with impunity.

Not so in DA2- there is no real reason why apostate Hawke shouldn't be slapped into the tower the first time s/he uses magic in public. While I found the story more compelling to play as a mage character, I also thought it made less sense in the storytelling.