The scene with Karl and Anders in the Chantry got me thinking about tranquil. I thought it was a little strange that Karl would go along with the Templar's plan. Even if he didn't have any emotions left and couldn't care about Anders, shouldn't he still need a reason to do anything? Owain seemed to still prefer to be alive than not and prefered familiarity to uncertainty so they still seem to be able to think and reason on their own. So why is it that he would still prefer to side with the Templars over his friend? I would have imagined it's still possible for a Tranquil to support the idea of mages' being freed if he logically concluded that was the best option for stability, but apparently not Karl. Anders seemed to imply that he only cares about following the rules now, which is why he betrayed him to the Templars but that still doesn't exactly explain it either. The very act of making him Tranquil was against the laws of the Chantry and they should be higher than the rules the Templars are enforcing in Kirkwall, so why would he follow what the law breaking Templars told him to do?
What exactly is it that motivates tranquil?
Débuté par
Jedi Master of Orion
, avril 06 2011 09:21
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#2
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:25
Maria Caliban
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Every Tranquil you speak with in DA:O and DA II says they're better because of it. Even the gal walking around the gallows talking about how Ser Alrick forced her to become a Tranquil because she was weak seems to think that was the right thing to do.
#3
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:34
PirateT138
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Laws and rationality, I believe. Karl determined that it was in Anders' best interest, and the best interest of everyone else, if he (being an abomination) were to be made tranquil.
The other option was that the templars would eventually find him and kill him, probably at the cost of several of themselves.
Tricking Anders into being made tranquil would save lives (and boy, it would have...).
The other option was that the templars would eventually find him and kill him, probably at the cost of several of themselves.
Tricking Anders into being made tranquil would save lives (and boy, it would have...).
#4
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:37
Stazro
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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I would have imagined it's still possible for a Tranquil to support the idea of mages' being freed if he logically concluded that was the best option for stability, but apparently not Karl.
It is, but he doesn't.
#5
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:52
Ealos
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In DA2 the tranquil seem to be suggestible, Alrick implies that they will obey everything people ask them to, whereas in DAO they just seemed passive and emotionless. Not sure which is correct.
#6
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:54
Mnemnosyne
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Well my take on it tends to be that from a non-emotional purely logical standpoint of considering what's good for the largest number of people, making every mage tranquil makes perfect sense. It's completely ignoring any personal preference for those people, but from an objective standpoint it is the best thing for society as a whole.
#7
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:55
Darth Krytie
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Ealos wrote...
In DA2 the tranquil seem to be suggestible, Alrick implies that they will obey everything people ask them to, whereas in DAO they just seemed passive and emotionless. Not sure which is correct.
Well, I think all Alric would have to say is let me violate you or I'll kill you and an emotionless, rational decision would be to acquiesce in lieu of being killed.
#8
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:56
Ealos
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So no magical healing or anything like that? Never mind the untapped potential for magic in non-combat situations.
#9
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 07:51
Stazro
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Well, I have yet to meet a Tranquil who has expressed the opinion that every mage should be tranquilized. I remember, when the Warden suggests that to the Tranquil in Ostagar, he - evading to answer directly, though - says that you may think differently if you were a mage. To come back to Karl, he is probably aware (more so than Hawke at that point anyway), from their earlier acquaintance, that Anders will stop at nothing to put his convictions into effect. So tranquil Karl computes that it is best to stop Anders before he unleashes chaos and brings death to the innocents.
#10
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 11:17
Kelleth
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Tranquil are like Vulcans... Need I say more?
#11
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 12:12
Ahriman Dragonhand
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There seems to be a difference between DAO and DA2 tranquil. Karl states that a tranquil don't remember their life before, when in DAO one of the tranquils (don't remember who, Owain maybe?) compares his state to his life before tranquility.
To me it looks like, apart from being cut from the Fade and their emotions removed, they are also subject to some sort of conditioning, and for example someone like Meredith or Alrik would certainly handle this in a different way than Greagoir.
It would be interesting if Bioware gave us the chance to to discuss with a tranquil about their situation longer and deeper than we've been able so far.
To me it looks like, apart from being cut from the Fade and their emotions removed, they are also subject to some sort of conditioning, and for example someone like Meredith or Alrik would certainly handle this in a different way than Greagoir.
It would be interesting if Bioware gave us the chance to to discuss with a tranquil about their situation longer and deeper than we've been able so far.
#12
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 01:01
Relshar
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The Keeper of the Elves made it sound better to me. In that your soul dies in the fade and hence a mage is made tranquil.
Sounds an awful state to be in. I would rather die than have my soul killed off in the fade.
Sounds an awful state to be in. I would rather die than have my soul killed off in the fade.
#13
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 12:58
Jedi Master of Orion
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Karl didn't even seem to remember the conversation he had with Anders when his exposure to the fade faded, but the Codex entry about a journal of a Tranquil member, that I'm pretty sure is in this and DOA, mentions a Tranquil comparing his life before and after as well. So I suspect there's a bit of inconsistency and a sort of retcon in the game.
#14
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 01:02
kimbabini
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k so wait so
ok so
the way i've always understood it
you die in the fade, or what this person said, your soul dies in the fade. so why exactly does this render you emotionless? I MEAN WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT, THE FADE.
ok so
the way i've always understood it
you die in the fade, or what this person said, your soul dies in the fade. so why exactly does this render you emotionless? I MEAN WHAT'S IT ALL ABOUT, THE FADE.
#15
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 01:59
kedcoleman
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The Fade is the realm of dreams, souls, magic and emotions. If you have no connection tot hat, through being made tranquil/"dying" in the Fade, you lose your connection to all of it.
#16
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 02:22
Sarielle
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What I think is MORE interesting about the whole Karl thing is the suggestion that Tranquility is not permanent. If Karl were permanently cut off from the Fade, then he should not have been able to react to Anders' transformation. It shouldn't matter if Anders literally did bring a hunk o' Fade into Thedas...Karl shouldn't be able to notice.
#17
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 02:25
Icy Magebane
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Yeah, that was weird. Wouldn't that mean that all mages could be cured of Tranquility if they were... I don't know, brought back into the Fade? Maybe it's possible to cure, but nobody has done the research yet?Sarielle wrote...
What I think is MORE interesting about the whole Karl thing is the suggestion that Tranquility is not permanent. If Karl were permanently cut off from the Fade, then he should not have been able to react to Anders' transformation. It shouldn't matter if Anders literally did bring a hunk o' Fade into Thedas...Karl shouldn't be able to notice.
Or, it could have been done for dramatic effect... I don't know. It can't just be close proximity to a powerful Spirit, or somebody would have noticed it sooner.
#18
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 02:39
Sarielle
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Icy Magebane wrote...
Yeah, that was weird. Wouldn't that mean that all mages could be cured of Tranquility if they were... I don't know, brought back into the Fade? Maybe it's possible to cure, but nobody has done the research yet?Sarielle wrote...
What I think is MORE interesting about the whole Karl thing is the suggestion that Tranquility is not permanent. If Karl were permanently cut off from the Fade, then he should not have been able to react to Anders' transformation. It shouldn't matter if Anders literally did bring a hunk o' Fade into Thedas...Karl shouldn't be able to notice.
Or, it could have been done for dramatic effect... I don't know. It can't just be close proximity to a powerful Spirit, or somebody would have noticed it sooner.
Right. Because a very powerful demonic abomination (like happened in the Ferelden Circle) should have triggered this as well. And I'm sure Tranquil have been around abominations before...
#19
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 02:41
The Angry One
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Well keep in mind that Karl doesn't have his emotions restored just by Anders' presence alone, but when Justice manifests in a burst of power.
And there's always the thin veil excuse to fall back on.
And there's always the thin veil excuse to fall back on.
#20
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 02:48
Camenae
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Is the fade-cut-off process foolproof? Maybe if the person doing it was a newbie and screws it up then there might be a chance that the cutoff would have holes in it that can be exploited? Like if a doctor messes up a vasectomy? 
#21
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 03:05
Sarielle
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The Angry One wrote...
Well keep in mind that Karl doesn't have his emotions restored just by Anders' presence alone, but when Justice manifests in a burst of power.
And there's always the thin veil excuse to fall back on.
True...but that still comes back to him still being able to feel The Fade, which he should have been cut off from.
Camenae wrote...
Is the fade-cut-off process foolproof? Maybe if the person doing it was a newbie and screws it up then there might be a chance that the cutoff would have holes in it that can be exploited? Like if a doctor messes up a vasectomy?
Lol, love your analogy.
We don't actually know how the Rite of Tranquility works, do we? Supposedly if you do the Wayward Son thing, killing a mage in the Fade makes them Tranquil. Maybe the Circle is all like "It's time for your uh...Harrowing. Yeah, Harrowing. Go on into the Fade..." <30 mages already lurking in The Fade to gangbang hapless other mage when he gets there>
Still...to me that would seem hard to bork. Either you kill them in The Fade, or not. But there may be some other method we/I don't know about.
Modifié par Sarielle, 08 avril 2011 - 03:05 .
#22
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 03:07
Aurelet
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Well, Justice isn't in the fade. Uldred's demon was still operating in the fade during the blight
#23
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 03:08
Camenae
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Sarielle wrote...
Maybe the Circle is all like "It's time for your uh...Harrowing. Yeah, Harrowing. Go on into the Fade..." <30 mages already lurking in The Fade to gangbang hapless other mage when he gets there>
I seriously lol'ed. Now I feel like a bad person for making light of the process.
#24
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 03:09
TheBlackBaron
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Sarielle wrote...
We don't actually know how the Rite of Tranquility works, do we? Supposedly if you do the Wayward Son thing, killing a mage in the Fade makes them Tranquil. Maybe the Circle is all like "It's time for your uh...Harrowing. Yeah, Harrowing. Go on into the Fade..." <30 mages already lurking in The Fade to gangbang hapless other mage when he gets there>
It involves somehow using a lyrium brand to cut off the Fade connection...but I like your idea much better.
#25
Posté 08 avril 2011 - 03:12
Sarielle
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@Camenae: Well I made fun first xD;
Hmm. I kind of assumed that was just for aesthetics. I should actually read up on the wiki before I talk about this more, probably. :B
Still. That seems much easier to bork than the "dead in The Fade || not dead in The Fade" method.
TheBlackBaron wrote...
Sarielle wrote...
We don't actually know how the Rite of Tranquility works, do we? Supposedly if you do the Wayward Son thing, killing a mage in the Fade makes them Tranquil. Maybe the Circle is all like "It's time for your uh...Harrowing. Yeah, Harrowing. Go on into the Fade..." <30 mages already lurking in The Fade to gangbang hapless other mage when he gets there>
It involves somehow using a lyrium brand to cut off the Fade connection...but I like your idea much better.
Hmm. I kind of assumed that was just for aesthetics. I should actually read up on the wiki before I talk about this more, probably. :B
Still. That seems much easier to bork than the "dead in The Fade || not dead in The Fade" method.
