41 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

I play it as a mage usually, just because it makes more sense to me.

[Apollo Starflare]

levi.porphyrogenitus wrote...

If nothing else, the option for a warrior with the Templar specialization makes the story more interesting.

Perhaps another question to ask would be "Would the story be better if Warrior Hawke was always a Templar at some point in the story?"

Rogues could get involved with the Coterie or something.

It would be interesting to see, and the added dynamic of having those three groups play a bigger role in your development would no doubt be beneficial to the story in some ways. I just can't see people being happy having their character shoehorned into working with them though, even if you had the option to undermine or otherwise play your role differently.

[Statulos]

I don´t like to play as mages for my main character on a general basis but I agree with Maria on this: the central plot element of DA2 is the conflict between mages and templars. Considering that being a non-mage, you emotional connection with them (Bethany) may perfectly die and roleplaying the "what would Bethany do" does not seem that consistant as something happening to her or yourself because of condition.

On the other hand, my beef with the plot elements is the fact that you can lean to the "dark side" and have no response whatsoever. Being a blood mage should definetly alteer things but I also think that being a reaver (that is also being close to something comparable with blood magic) should count too.

[Stick668]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It occurred to me that if instead of having to be a human, Hawke could be a human or elven mage, they could have brought the mage/templar conflict to the fore much sooner and integrated Orsino and Meredith in the story during Act 2.

I think you may be on to something.

I suppose the need for "one-size-fits-most" interactions is what led to the generally magic-blind Templars. "Can't use too many zots on 1/3 of the classes." Yeah, there are exceptions, but few and far between.

As it stands, it's a bit like playing a Nosferatu in Bloodlines, but with no sewer travel necessary. "What Masquerade? It's not like it's in the game's title - or theme - or anything..."

And ignoring that "no class choice at all" would lead to forum furor that'd make even the current muppetry seem sane and sensible...

I kinda like the idea of a single-class PC. Plenty of customization to be had if you're focused on one thing from the start. (I.e, imagine a Witcher leaning more towards magic than poking stuff with pointy bits, but definitely capable of melee.)

Actually... you wouldn't even have to go that far.

Filament wrote...

What they could do, I suppose, is move to a classless system where you play a magically gifted person, who can still take warrior or rogue talents. Then you could get the benefit of a more tightly focused storyline while still being able to play with any of the playstyles you could before. And probably quite a few new ones as well. Hypothetically, anyway.

Right, so class selection becomes:

1) Archmage - "Magic. Lots of magic."
2) Arcane Trickster - "Sneaky, stabby and a bit zappy."
3) Arcane Warrior - "I have crazy sustainables up the wazoo and enough mana to cast half a fireball."

Well, I wouldn't mind.

Anyways. Ze point, she is moot.

Modifié par Stick668, 07 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[Stick668]

* EDIT: Snip. Technical issues. *

Modifié par Stick668, 07 avril 2011 - 08:33 .

[fluffyamoeba]

In the end you didn't get asked to pick a side really. You were asked to chose whether to assist in killing 100s of kittens to avoid the future death of 1000s of puppies by the hands of other people. Whether your PC preferred kittens or puppies didn't really matter at that point.

Earlier on, it would have been more interesting if your character had to be a mage. Not least that getting people to react to picking the blood mage spec could be added. Plus unlocking (or not unlocking) the spec could have been turned into a demon temptation or something quest in its own right. It would have got around the "I don't like Anders and my PC would never trust a blood mage, but I'm in act 2 so now what?" issue too.

There's already lots of wiggle room in the lore for still letting the PC focus on warrior or rogue skills. In DA:O it is implied heavily in the circle quest from the notes lying around that mages can't fight because they are are deliberately forbidden from learning martial skills to keep the templars' anti-magic training effective. As you're an apostate *and* you had to hide being a mage in Lothering, it fits that you would have learned other skills to defend yourself.

Having said all that, I felt that mage vs non-mage were the 2 origin stories of DA2. I really think that given more time, they would have made the game react more than it did.

[AlexXIV]

It would be better if Hawke would be a multi class character like the Witcher. Hate to say that, but there it is. So he could be 'mage' but also choose to learn melee skills, hence please the melee crowd and at the same time be a thorn in the eye of the Chantry/templars.

[Camilladilla]

Stick668 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

It occurred to me that if instead of having to be a human, Hawke could be a human or elven mage, they could have brought the mage/templar conflict to the fore much sooner and integrated Orsino and Meredith in the story during Act 2.

I think you may be on to something.

I suppose the need for "one-size-fits-most" interactions is what led to the generally magic-blind Templars. "Can't use too many zots on 1/3 of the classes." Yeah, there are exceptions, but few and far between.

As it stands, it's a bit like playing a Nosferatu in Bloodlines, but with no sewer travel necessary. "What Masquerade? It's not like it's in the game's title - or theme - or anything..."

And ignoring that "no class choice at all" would lead to forum furor that'd make even the current muppetry seem sane and sensible...

I kinda like the idea of a single-class PC. Plenty of customization to be had if you're focused on one thing from the start. (I.e, imagine a Witcher leaning more towards magic than poking stuff with pointy bits, but definitely capable of melee.)

Actually... you wouldn't even have to go that far.

Filament wrote...

What they could do, I suppose, is move to a classless system where you play a magically gifted person, who can still take warrior or rogue talents. Then you could get the benefit of a more tightly focused storyline while still being able to play with any of the playstyles you could before. And probably quite a few new ones as well. Hypothetically, anyway.

Right, so class selection becomes:

1) Archmage - "Magic. Lots of magic."
2) Arcane Trickster - "Sneaky, stabby and a bit zappy."
3) Arcane Warrior - "I have crazy sustainables up the wazoo and enough mana to cast half a fireball."

Well, I wouldn't mind.

Anyways. Ze point, she is moot.

I... really wish that you'd worked for Bioware when they were coming up with DA2 ideas

[nranola]

Maria Caliban wrote...

TJPags wrote...

To do that, I'd think they'd have had to alter the storyline. Make consequences attach to being a mage. Templars are after you, unless you make a deal with them. Turn in mages, or they hunt you . . .or your family, or friends.

Indeed. And that would have tied in nicely with the mage vs templars storyline.

They couldn't include that because only 1/3 of the character classes would be able to experience it.

I agree. There were so many possibilities for the mage route, but alas. If they implemented just one class then they would have been able to focus more on the pros and cons of living as an apostate in Kirkwall. It would have definitely been interesting to see.

[The Morrigan]

I think making the story mage-centric makes sense, seeing as it practically already is. I don't usually play casters on my first playthrough - I'm a roguey gal - but it seemed clear from advertising that Bioware were championing (hoho) mages. So I played a mage. And it would have been awesome if I'd actually had to be careful with my powers, and run away from Templars on occasion. Even a side-plot where you get chucked in the Gallows and have to make a gallant escape would have been interesting.

But getting rid of options (classes) isn't a good thing. People would've whipped up a shrieking storm if Bioware had taken class choices away.

Koyasha wrote...

Alternately, it wouldn't have hurt to make Hawke always some form of hybrid.  Give the main character a special talent tree with unique magical abilities - so that technically every Hawke is a mage, but warrior and rogue Hawkes just use that magic in a different way.  The trailers certainly gave some impression of Hawke being a mage/fighter, for instance.

This would've been a great idea. It would mean they could throw in near-the-knuckle moments for any class where you had the templars on your heels and Hawke actually has a reason to be dragged into the conflict by Orsino and Meredith. Heck, it even gives more of a reason why people keep asking Hawke to do things for them, besides Player Character Syndrome. Why does the Viscount ask for your help? Because you're made of magic, that's why.

Apollo Starfire wrote...

I could see it working in essence much like a particularly game affecting Origin story, with each class having a different unique twist to their gameplay in certain situations; as well as altering (to a greater degree) how they are perceived by various characters.

It would have essentially made your class choice in DA2 as important as your Origin choice in DAO (perhaps even more so). Something that I think would have fit in quite well with the games theme of developing your Champion on his or her rise to power (what sort of Champion were they etc.)

This would be my ideal and I hope the only reason Bioware didn't go with this was because of the time constraints (read: rush job). It would have made DA2 ten times more replayable; the story would have been unique, even though you were always Hawke.

It's just a shame that Bioware didn't (get the chance to?) focus more on Hawke's involvement in the conflict. They play around with it a little bit with Carver and Bethany, but then you lose them, one way or another. I think having Carver as a genuine rival against my magey antics throughout the game would have been good fun and provided a hell of a lot of tension. I haven't had him become a Templar yet, though (alas), so please correct me if something fascinating happens when he does.
Or having Bethany actually fleeing templars, with Hawke smiting them down justly to protect her little sister.

I enjoyed DA2, but the more I think about it in retrospect, the more I see what a missed opportunity it was. Sadface.

Modifié par The Morrigan, 07 avril 2011 - 01:13 .

[RazorrX]

The problem with DA2 is that it is mostly written that you are NOT a mage. With the development time put into the game they did the best they could and thus the game is written as if you are a rogue or warrior. This is why you get the really out of place comments like "your role would change little if you embraced the qun." and such.

When you have Bethany in your group entire conversations change. (She proves she is a mage to appease Dreamer boy's dad to tell him where he was, she talks about needing money to pay off the people who have been extorting you with threats of turning her in to the Templars, etc.). You get none of this without her. Your Mage Hawke has dialog that says "I'm a mage too!" but what he says is the same as warrior/rogue hawke (not every mage is bad).

They got around the player being a mage in Origins because he/she was a Warden, and they are outside the Circle. In DA2 you are not only NOT outside the circle, you are in a place where the circle holds a LOT of power and is very harsh to apostates.

Yes it would have been cool if they had taken into consideration that Hawke was a mage, but that would have required a different game - both writing wise as well as game play wise. You would have had to change how you played, used disguise, cloaked your magic, etc. There would have had to be a hounding mechanic like in Assassin's Creed when templars saw you use magic, You could never be Viscount as a Mage can not RULE. The warden being an exception as they are outside the circle. You would basically feel that you were always on the run, etc. Would it have been more fun? To me - Yes. Would it have taken longer than 18 months to implement properly? Yes.

[Torax]

Those times when bethany can interrupt about being a mage, so can hawke. For example a Hawke mage can use magic to convince the antivan dad to tell you where his son is. Just like bethany could. That is rare no matter the situation.

The lose part we have to accept is more than you are Hawke. So by the start of Act 1 you made a name for yourself in the underbelly of the city. Most know not to screw with you. Infact about all who they would send after you are probably scared of you. Varric handles the rest. He is especially good at getting others to fear you and having them wanting to be on your side and not fighting you.

We have to take that on a leap of faith. But I wouldn't say it's all written as if you're a warrior or rogue. There is even unique responses only if you are a mage. Like the joke about the deep roads being clear to flemeth.

[Rifneno]

Suron wrote...

considering the story is at it's WORST when you're a mage because of idiotic hand-waving of him/her being such...

...no

That's just the thing.  That idiotic hand-waving wouldn't have to happen if Hawke had to be a mage.  The reason it has to happen is because it'd require a bunch of extra content that only applies to 1/3rd of characters and makes the game much more difficult for that 1/3rd.

I think the game would be better if Hawke had to be a mage.  But for fairness sake, there would need to be an option for Hawke to supress his/her magic and play as a warrior or rogue normally would.  Honestly it's kind of silly the way it is now where every mage totally relies on magic and can't even use a normal weapon.  If you might end up battling templars who are very resistant to magic, don't you think it might behoove you to maybe learn some standard combat?

[Torax]

Rifneno wrote...

Suron wrote...

considering the story is at it's WORST when you're a mage because of idiotic hand-waving of him/her being such...

...no

That's just the thing.  That idiotic hand-waving wouldn't have to happen if Hawke had to be a mage.  The reason it has to happen is because it'd require a bunch of extra content that only applies to 1/3rd of characters and makes the game much more difficult for that 1/3rd.

I think the game would be better if Hawke had to be a mage.  But for fairness sake, there would need to be an option for Hawke to supress his/her magic and play as a warrior or rogue normally would.  Honestly it's kind of silly the way it is now where every mage totally relies on magic and can't even use a normal weapon.  If you might end up battling templars who are very resistant to magic, don't you think it might behoove you to maybe learn some standard combat?

Nothing to fear. Just carry a physical damage staff. Plus there is always the force magic school. Well and Stone Fist is physical I think.

[The Baconer]

Actually, I wouldn't have minded a complete offshoot game with a Mage-only Hawke. It would be more action-y and since there wouldn't be a need for class-balancing you could go crazy flinging spells and fighting with your staff like in the Destiny trailer. It depends on how well they could do the combat system I suppose. Still couldn't be a full sequel, though.

[Last Vizard]

Yes it would, Living God PC for the win.

Will never be able to understand why someone would want to play as a cut purse Rogue or knuckle dragging Warrior.... Raymond E. Feist has created some really  cool characters that use magic

Modifié par Last Vizard, 07 avril 2011 - 04:15 .