89 réponses à ce sujet

[Captmorgan72]

The hero of Ferelden defeated the archdemon and ended the fifth blight. The events of Kirkwall started a threat that the people of Thedas haven't seen since the Magisters stormed the Golden City and started the Darkspawn taint. A string of events in Kirkwall would swirl and create the perfect storm of tragedy. This would lead to the spark that would start the mage war of independence.  A conflict that could split Thedas in half.

  At the heart of this was Hawke. He/she either stood with the mages or the templars. Either way, Hawke was there when it all began. Hawke knows the real story, what really happened and why. This war began because of circumstances that fueled hatered and encouraged action. Horrible acts against the mages from templars that were disillusioned. Mages that practiced the forbidded school of magic, blood magic. Mages that consorted with demons. The worst of both templars and mages. This alone would not spark this war but add a possessed mage (Anders) and a templar leader whose sanity was slipping (Meredith) because of the idol and you have a recipe for disaster. The destruction of the chantry lead to the right of annulment and the beginning of a war that has less to do with independence than it does with the very reason the circle and the templars exist to begin with. What happen to Meredith was a unusual event. Something that is not common. However, what happen to Anders is a common threat to mages, possession.

Hawke is so important because he/she is the only one that can stop this war. Unless you are a evil mage, would you fight for a cause that was started by a possessed mage? The Anders of Awakenings would never have done what he did in Dragon Age 2. The moment he was possessed by Justice/Vengance he ceased being the Anders we knew.  Every mage faces this threat, that is why the circle exist, to train and prepare mages to resist this. They are beacons that attract spirits of the fade like moths to flame. The templars are there to "help" if they fail. There will be those of both orders that will abuse their authority and those that are noble like Meredith (before corruption) Cullen and First Enchanter Irving from Origins. A few rotten apples does not make the orchid spoiled. Hawke can stop this, Hawke knows what really happened.

Any Grey Warden could have defeated the Archdemon and ended the Blight. Only Hawke can stop this war that will destroy all of Thedas.

Modifié par Captmorgan72, 07 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[Maria Caliban]

Have you noticed that many times when you push a button in the game, nothing awesome happens?

Marketing slogans do not define a game.

Hawke isn't all that important. She was there at a turning point in history, but that's it.

[Beerfish]

Hawke is very important because he or she has a reload from previous save button that no one else has. In essence you are the best fighter, mage or rogue in the land with enough charisma or leadership to attract the best followers. That is one reason why you are ignored even though you are an aposate, the powers that be might just realize you are not to be triffled with and want you on their side.

[Miashi]

Hai guys, I was alive when the challenger exploded.
Therefore that makes me a important person in the world.

[AshenEndymion]

Is the question of "importance" essentially: "If this person didn't exist, how drastically would the story change?"

If it is, then the most important person of the Dragon Age is Loghain. Hands down.

Modifié par AshenEndemion, 07 avril 2011 - 02:15 .

[Maria Caliban]

Miashi wrote...

Hai guys, I was alive when the challenger exploded.
Therefore that makes me a important person in the world.

That didn't lead to a World War. You suck.

[UnresoIved]

AshenEndemion wrote...

Is the question of "importance" essentially: "If this person didn't exist, how drastically would the story change?"

If it is, then the most important person of the Dragon Age is Loghain. Hands down.

I disagree, if Loghain did not betray Cailan, then the blight probably would have concluded one way or another. Loghain is only important to the story of Dragon Age:Origins, not Dragon Age's history overall.

On the otherhand, I believe that Hawke is extremely important to DA's history because she was/is the center of the mage/templar conflict. If she did not exist, then the lyrium idol would never have been discovered, the Qunari may have taken over Kirkwall without the mages ever revolting, and the Chantry may never have been blown up without the aid she gave to Anders. The Champion's story might only be a localized story, but she is even more important than the Warden in Thedas. The Warden only saved Ferelden, not every country while Hawke provoked a Thedas-wide war and split the Chantry apart.

[Miashi]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Miashi wrote...

Hai guys, I was alive when the challenger exploded.
Therefore that makes me a important person in the world.

That didn't lead to a World War. You suck.

Way to shatter my glass dreams...
And I was trying so hard!

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 02:30 .

[Urazz]

UnresoIved wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Is the question of "importance" essentially: "If this person didn't exist, how drastically would the story change?"

If it is, then the most important person of the Dragon Age is Loghain. Hands down.

I disagree, if Loghain did not betray Cailan, then the blight probably would have concluded one way or another. Loghain is only important to the story of Dragon Age:Origins, not Dragon Age's history overall.

On the otherhand, I believe that Hawke is extremely important to DA's history because she was/is the center of the mage/templar conflict. If she did not exist, then the lyrium idol would never have been discovered, the Qunari may have taken over Kirkwall without the mages ever revolting, and the Chantry may never have been blown up without the aid she gave to Anders. The Champion's story might only be a localized story, but she is even more important than the Warden in Thedas. The Warden only saved Ferelden, not every country while Hawke provoked a Thedas-wide war and split the Chantry apart.

Not only that but we don't know if Bioware is done with using Hawke yet in their games, expansions, DLC, etc.  We could easily get another expansion which has Hawke do some more important things in Thedas.

[Miashi]

We could easily get another expansion which has Hawke do some more important things in Thedas.

I have a few ideas:

DLC 1 idea: Hawke casually drinks tea with Empress Celestine
DLC 2 idea: Hawke frowns at Bethany for farting in public
DLC 3 idea: Hawke tells a joke to a TalVashoth

Helen0rz idea for DLC 4 : Hawke chasing rainbows and butterflies with Merrill while sharing cookies with Sten who magically appeared in Kirkwall one day

DLC 5: Hawke must find the dead cat of Anders and return it to him.
Ensues a sad and dramatic cutscene, involving sandwiches and cupcakes
stolen from crying kid.

Helen0rz idea for DLC6: A day with a companion, where you spend a day with each companion
once, just to see what they do on their own time. Isabella will drink;
Varric will do creepy things to Bianca; Fenris will brood! Featuring all
new mini game, trauma center style, with Anders taking care of the
patients around darktown! (forget about the many many rashes!)

Maybe I'll find a few more as time goes by.

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 03:01 .

[HolyWarrior21]

I wonder, if hawke never found the idol, would meredith have gone insane, or was she already beginning to lose her sanity beforehand and the idol just sped the process up?

[Miashi]

Anders is already getting quite paranoid even before meredith completes the sword. I think it wouldn't have really mattered.

[Helen0rz]

Miashi wrote...

We could easily get another expansion which has Hawke do some more important things in Thedas.

I have a few ideas:

DLC 1 idea: Hawke casually drinks tea with Empress Celestine
DLC 2 idea: Hawke frowns at Bethany for farting in public
DLC 3 idea: Hawke tells a joke to a TalVashoth

Maybe I'll find a few more as time goes by.

DLC 4 idea: Hawke chasing rainbows and butterflies with Merrill while sharing cookies with Sten who magically appeared in Kirkwall one day

[TJPags]

Miashi wrote...

We could easily get another expansion which has Hawke do some more important things in Thedas.

I have a few ideas:

DLC 1 idea: Hawke casually drinks tea with Empress Celestine when the flower shop next door is robbed
DLC 2 idea: Hawke frowns at Bethany for farting in public as someone gets mugged in front of them
DLC 3 idea: Hawke tells a joke to a TalVashoth while a blood mage sells someone into slavery

Maybe I'll find a few more as time goes by.

Helped you out with those ideas.  Can't forget the important doings of Hawke, after all. 

[Miashi]

DLC 5: Hawke must find the dead cat of Anders and return it to him. Ensues a sad and dramatic cutscene, involving sandwiches and cupcakes stolen from crying kid.

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 02:52 .

[AshenEndymion]

UnresoIved wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

Is the question of "importance" essentially: "If this person didn't exist, how drastically would the story change?"

If it is, then the most important person of the Dragon Age is Loghain. Hands down.

I disagree, if Loghain did not betray Cailan, then the blight probably would have concluded one way or another. Loghain is only important to the story of Dragon Age:Origins, not Dragon Age's history overall.

On the otherhand, I believe that Hawke is extremely important to DA's history because she was/is the center of the mage/templar conflict. If she did not exist, then the lyrium idol would never have been discovered, the Qunari may have taken over Kirkwall without the mages ever revolting, and the Chantry may never have been blown up without the aid she gave to Anders. The Champion's story might only be a localized story, but she is even more important than the Warden in Thedas. The Warden only saved Ferelden, not every country while Hawke provoked a Thedas-wide war and split the Chantry apart.

You're not thinking on the grand scale.... 34 years happened in the Dragon Age prior to Ostagar.

Without Loghain, Merric is never saved from the betrayal of the Banns.  There is no rebellion, and Ferelden doesn't gain its independance.  Ferelden is still under the grip of Orlais during the Fifth blight, and so there is no betrayal at Ostagar, nor are the Grey Wardens expelled from Ferelden (since it's still Orlesian territory)... But that really doesn't matter because Duncan and crew never get that guide who knows the Deep Roads since Merric is dead, and so that expedition probably goes worse than it went...  And there is no Cailen to betray at Ostagar, since he was never born... et cetera, et cetera....

Loghain's actions at Ostagar pale in comparison to the amount of damage that could be caused if he was removed from the Age completely....

Modifié par AshenEndemion, 07 avril 2011 - 02:54 .

[Helen0rz]

DLC6: A day with a companion, where you spend a day with each companion once, just to see what they do on their own time. Isabella will drink; Varric will do creepy things to Bianca; Fenris will brood! Featuring all new mini game, trauma center style, with Anders taking care of the patients around darktown! (forget about the many many rashes!)

[Miashi]

Helen0rz wrote...

DLC6: A day with a companion, where you spend a day with each companion once, just to see what they do on their own time. Isabella will drink; Varric will do creepy things to Bianca; Fenris will brood! Featuring all new mini game, trauma center style, with Anders taking care of the patients around darktown! (forget about the many many rashes!)

I *has* to have something to do with Edwina though!

[UnresoIved]

AshenEndemion wrote...
You're not thinking on the grand scale.... 34 years happened in the Dragon Age prior to Ostagar.

Without Loghain, Merric is never saved from the betrayal of the Banns.  There is no rebellion, and Ferelden doesn't gain its independance.  Ferelden is still under the grip of Orlais during the Fifth blight, and so there is no betrayal at Ostagar, nor are the Grey Wardens expelled from Ferelden (since it's still Orlesian territory)... But that really doesn't matter because Duncan and crew never get that guide who knows the Deep Roads since Merric is dead.  And there is no Cailen to betray at Ostagar, since he was never born.

Loghain's actions at Ostagar pale in comparison to the amount of damage that could be caused if he was removed from the Age completely....

Well, to be honest, Ferelden isn't the most important thing in Thedas. Sure, all of Ferelden's history would have been rewritten, but that pales in comparison to the impact of the mage/templar conflict. The conflict has the potential to completely reverse everybody's role in society. Hawke's potential impact far outweighs what Loghain impacted.

[AshenEndymion]

UnresoIved wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...
You're not thinking on the grand scale.... 34 years happened in the Dragon Age prior to Ostagar.

Without Loghain, Merric is never saved from the betrayal of the Banns.  There is no rebellion, and Ferelden doesn't gain its independance.  Ferelden is still under the grip of Orlais during the Fifth blight, and so there is no betrayal at Ostagar, nor are the Grey Wardens expelled from Ferelden (since it's still Orlesian territory)... But that really doesn't matter because Duncan and crew never get that guide who knows the Deep Roads since Merric is dead.  And there is no Cailen to betray at Ostagar, since he was never born.

Loghain's actions at Ostagar pale in comparison to the amount of damage that could be caused if he was removed from the Age completely....

Well, to be honest, Ferelden isn't the most important thing in Thedas. Sure, all of Ferelden's history would have been rewritten, but that pales in comparison to the impact of the mage/templar conflict. The conflict has the potential to completely reverse everybody's role in society. Hawke's potential impact far outweighs what Loghain impacted.

But that's the even bigger beauty.  Hawke went to Kirkwall from Lothering (in Ferelden).  With no betrayal at Ostagar, there is no garauntee that Lothering is destroyed.  No garauntee that Hawke goes to Kirkwall.  Hell, there is no garauntee that Hawke's father returns to Ferelden if it is still under the grip of Orlesians....

Hawke's potential impact is a direct result of Loghain's actions... without Loghain's actions, does Hawke even have a potential impact?!?

[Helen0rz]

Miashi wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

DLC6: A day with a companion, where you spend a day with each companion once, just to see what they do on their own time. Isabella will drink; Varric will do creepy things to Bianca; Fenris will brood! Featuring all new mini game, trauma center style, with Anders taking care of the patients around darktown! (forget about the many many rashes!)

I *has* to have something to do with Edwina though!

that's for DLC7, you can't rush things like that

[UnresoIved]

AshenEndemion wrote...
But that's the even bigger beauty.  Hawke went to Kirkwall from Lothering (in Ferelden).  With no betrayal at Ostagar, there is no garauntee that Lothering is destroyed.  No garauntee that Hawke goes to Kirkwall.  Hell, there is no garauntee that Hawke's father returns to Ferelden if it is still under the grip of Orlesians....

Hawke's potential impact is a direct result of Loghain's actions... without Loghain's actions, does Hawke even have a potential impact?!?

If Ferelden had remained under Orlesian influence and Hawke's father did not move to Ferelden, where would they have lived? They most likely would have lived in Kirkwall because that's where Hawke's parents met. But I can't say what would have happened to Lothering if there was no betrayal. I can only guess that Lothering would have been destroyed eventually because though I don't remember a whole lot of it, it didn't have as strong of a defense as other places did such as Redcliffe. It could have been overrun eventually, but that's all hypothesizing. You make valid points and I see where you're going with Loghain and all. 

But that's enough debating for me tonight. I need to sleep...

Modifié par UnresoIved, 07 avril 2011 - 03:16 .

[TheBlackBaron]

UnresoIved wrote...

On the otherhand, I believe that Hawke is extremely important to DA's history because she was/is the center of the mage/templar conflict. If she did not exist, then the lyrium idol would never have been discovered, the Qunari may have taken over Kirkwall without the mages ever revolting, and the Chantry may never have been blown up without the aid she gave to Anders. The Champion's story might only be a localized story, but she is even more important than the Warden in Thedas. The Warden only saved Ferelden, not every country while Hawke provoked a Thedas-wide war and split the Chantry apart.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Bartrand's expedition would have gone ahead regardless, with Varric finding somebody else to invest in it. Kirkwall would have eventually rallied and pushed back the qunari, although it would likely have required intervention from the Circle under Meredith and Orsino and reinforcements from Starkhaven, Ostwick, Nevarra, and other nearby cities. And finally, the damn Chantry blows up irregardless of whether or not you help out Anders - you can completely ignore every quest he ever gives and it'll still get the 9/11 treatment in the end. 

Hawke may have been the one to do all these things, and is in a position of power and influence because of it, but without her around somebody else would have accomplished the same things in the end. And Hawke did nothing on her own to start the war - she was just along for the ride. 

Also, the Warden saved the entire damn continent from another Blight, by stopping it there in Ferelden. The loading screens say as much. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 07 avril 2011 - 03:20 .

[tmp7704]

Miashi wrote...

Helen0rz idea for DLC 4 : Hawke chasing rainbows and butterflies (..)

Robot Hawke Attack?

day one buy.