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[AlexXIV]

Nashiktal wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Hawke was at the center of the events that (might) have caused the biggest war in thedas.

The re-ignited conflict with the Qunari. The war between Chantry-Templar-Mages. Revealing the startling nature of the Old Thaig.

Varric was also at the center of these events. Just sayin'. Just being at the center of a tornado doesn't make you a tornado.

Varric wasn't at the center. Varric was at the edge of the circle. Without Hawke, some of these events might not have happened, or they would have been worse.

Its been explained in a post above.

Nothing is explained. Assumptions are made. Tell me one thing Hawke did that without doubt changed history.

[Aldandil]

AlexXIV wrote...

Nothing is explained. Assumptions are made. Tell me one thing Hawke did that without doubt changed history.

Hawke hasn't "changed history", s/he's taken part in it. S/he's still important, for reasons made clear in the epilogue. Anyone could have been in the same place, but as it stands, Hawke is.

[jds1bio]

Ah, I get it now. Hawke IS the single most important person in Dragon Age, but it has nothing to do with Kirkwall, the idol, the templars, the mages, or the qunari.

Hawke, by delivering the amulet to Sundermount, has kept Flemeth alive. And by doing so has made what the Warden may or may not have done to Flemeth (and possibly Morrigan) irrelevant. Without Hawke, we don't know if Flemeth would have found another to make the delivery. Is it fate or chance, I can never decide...

Thus, the Seekers are going after the wrong things. Instead of going after Hawke (who has no effect on the outcome in Kirkwall no matter what order things take place) and the Warden (who did defeat the Blight but isn't useful anymore except as a Grey Warden), they should be going after the idol, assuming it was brought back from the deep roads anyway. And possibly the relic (if it wasn't found during DA2, just to pull out the Qunari thorn in Thedas' side, or in case the idol wasn't found and the Qunari took over Kirkwall). Since Orsino so easily broke the integrity of the Circle and became an abomination at the end of DA2, I will conjecture that any city takeover where he was backed into a corner would have led to the same outcome.

The seekers should also be trying to recruit either Flemeth or Morrigan to their side in the blowup between templars and mages. Now that we've experienced Witch Hunt and DA2, we realize that the Warden and Hawke really can't go up against Morrigan or Flemeth. Who in Thedas is currently most powerful, if not Flemeth and Morrigan?

But no, instead the Seekers go after people who cannot possibly help them. It's kind of sad to realize that idols, relics, and amulets end up being more important to a story than people.

[barryl89]

The epilogue explains fairly clearly why he is important. He can talk down the Templars or he can talk down the mages.

Hawke took a side, he made a stand, he stopped two extremely powerful entities from destroying the city.

As for the warden.... Riordan says: If the Fereldan's are too stupid to stop the blight on their own, we will be there. Thats not exact but it is close. He says that after you ask him about the Orlesian army that marched with the Warden's that was turned back at the border.

(I use he, you use whatever you want )

[Aldandil]

jds1bio wrote...

Ah, I get it now. Hawke IS the single most important person in Dragon Age, but it has nothing to do with Kirkwall, the idol, the templars, the mages, or the qunari.

Hawke, by delivering the amulet to Sundermount, has kept Flemeth alive. And by doing so has made what the Warden may or may not have done to Flemeth (and possibly Morrigan) irrelevant. Without Hawke, we don't know if Flemeth would have found another to make the delivery. Is it fate or chance, I can never decide...

Thus, the Seekers are going after the wrong things. Instead of going after Hawke (who has no effect on the outcome in Kirkwall no matter what order things take place) and the Warden (who did defeat the Blight but isn't useful anymore except as a Grey Warden), they should be going after the idol, assuming it was brought back from the deep roads anyway. And possibly the relic (if it wasn't found during DA2, just to pull out the Qunari thorn in Thedas' side, or in case the idol wasn't found and the Qunari took over Kirkwall). Since Orsino so easily broke the integrity of the Circle and became an abomination at the end of DA2, I will conjecture that any city takeover where he was backed into a corner would have led to the same outcome.

The seekers should also be trying to recruit either Flemeth or Morrigan to their side in the blowup between templars and mages. Now that we've experienced Witch Hunt and DA2, we realize that the Warden and Hawke really can't go up against Morrigan or Flemeth. Who in Thedas is currently most powerful, if not Flemeth and Morrigan?

But no, instead the Seekers go after people who cannot possibly help them. It's kind of sad to realize that idols, relics, and amulets end up being more important to a story than people.

The Seekers might be wrong, but both Cassandra and Varric (who tends to keep himself informed of current events) seems to think that Hawke could influence either mages or templars, depending on who you sided with. That's three years after the end of the game, and since we don't know anything about the exact state of affairs, we have no reason to think they are wrong.

[Bmeszaros]

But Hawke didn't take a stand against both sides.... The game doesn't give us the option to use that "Neither of you are right/I'm not getting involved" line. 
 
Hawke wasn't protecting the city from two entities intent on tearing it apart, he was going to help tear it apart.

He sides with the templars KNOWING Orsino will have to die. He doesn't know he will have to fight Meredith to the death. If he sides with the Mages, he doesn't know he will end up saving more Templars than Mages at the end.

The only question seems to be: Do you or do you not want to be recognized as the new Viscount during the epilogue.

Modifié par Bmeszaros, 07 avril 2011 - 04:29 .

[AlexXIV]

Aldandil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Nothing is explained. Assumptions are made. Tell me one thing Hawke did that without doubt changed history.

Hawke hasn't "changed history", s/he's taken part in it. S/he's still important, for reasons made clear in the epilogue. Anyone could have been in the same place, but as it stands, Hawke is.

Well I didn't say Hawke is unimportant. But from 'important' to most important character in the world of Dragon Age' there is still way to go. I personally hope Hawke will again be protagonist tbh. I want my Hawke to be the most imporant character of DA. And for that Hawke would have to at least surpass Anders, Meredith and Cullen. If not even the Hero of Ferelden. There are alot of important things to do to accomplish that.

[jds1bio]

Bmeszaros wrote...

The only question seems to be: Do you or do you not want to be recognized as the new Viscount during the epilogue.

And considering that Varric doesn't know, or won't divulge, Hawke's whereabouts at the end, we don't know if Hawke's stint as viscount made any kind of difference.

[Aldandil]

AlexXIV wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Nothing is explained. Assumptions are made. Tell me one thing Hawke did that without doubt changed history.

Hawke hasn't "changed history", s/he's taken part in it. S/he's still important, for reasons made clear in the epilogue. Anyone could have been in the same place, but as it stands, Hawke is.

Well I didn't say Hawke is unimportant. But from 'important' to most important character in the world of Dragon Age' there is still way to go. I personally hope Hawke will again be protagonist tbh. I want my Hawke to be the most imporant character of DA. And for that Hawke would have to at least surpass Anders, Meredith and Cullen. If not even the Hero of Ferelden. There are alot of important things to do to accomplish that.

Well, Meredith is dead, so she's hardly important any more. She can't affect the conflict between mages and templars. I find it difficult to believe that Anders could either, and the same goes for Cullen (but I suppose it's possible that he'll become the leader of the renegade templars, considering how characters tend to be re-used in fiction). Still, I refer to my post on the last page for why Hawke can be considered the most important character.

[Lord Gremlin]

Well, my Hawke IS an evil mage. Evil blood mage. War is already won in fact, the dictate of magic begins.

[Bmeszaros]

Anders action triggered the Rite of Annulment to be called though. I doubt the various Circles would have risen up and rebelled against the Chantry if not for Meredith declaring the Rite based on the actions of one apostate mage. From another point of view, its clear based on his choice at the end that had Cullen been the KC, he probably would not have issued the Rite, but had Anders imprisioned or killed immediately, so the War wouldn't have even started. Hawke Didn't start the war and therefore is no more important then Anders or Meredith, eventhough both are dead (in my game)

Anders is/was arguably more important than Hawke is/was. His one act changed the whole world, Hawke's decision was small peanuts compared to this. Had Hawke had the same importance if he had died defending the mages or templars? Unlikely.

Without the advent of mass communications in medieval thedas, I doubt the world war would even be going on without that act by Anders and the subsequent Rite by Meredith.

Modifié par Bmeszaros, 07 avril 2011 - 05:03 .

[Helen0rz]

DLC 9.5

Picks up right after 9, Meredith pays Orsino a nightly, questionable visit. Sandal says 'NOT ENCHANTMENT!!!!!!'

[Captmorgan72]

Isn't it great that we can share our thoughts and theories in this forum? After reading through so many other threads I have changed some of my own thoughts about the story. One thing I do see though is that many people still feel like Hawke was not that important. That he was simply "along for the ride" and the things that happened would still have happened if he never came to Kirkwall. I completely disagree.

The deep roads expedition might never have happened. Bartrand might still be waiting for someone to help finance his expedition. If he did find someone, the expedition might not have gotten very far without the warden maps. Maybe some trinkets and a small amount of treasure but nothing like Hawke and company found and certainly no idol.

Anders would have tried to rescue his friend from the chantry and with no Hawke to help him, he probably would have recruited some apostates. Then he would have walked into the templar trap and seeing his friend was forced into tranquility, Justice comes out and the templars see him as a abomination and do what templars do best. Anders dies and never destroys the chantry which means the templar/mage war never starts.

Eventually the Arishock decides to cleanse Kirkwall and starts by removing the Viscount's head from his body. Now, could Kirkwall defeat the Arishock and his army of hundreds of Qunari warriors without Hawke? I would say yes, IF the city is united. Kirkwall is anything but united however. It's a city filled with criminals and decadents that prey on the weak and vulnerable. The captain of the city guard would gladly let his guards die to make his own coin purse heavier. The knight commander and first enchanter can not stand each other let alone work together. The templars and mages hate each other, the city guards don't trust the templars or mages. Without a central leader anyone with authority is trying to call all the shots. A big disorganized mess. Then you have the Arishock and his army. A powerful fighting force that functions as a single organism with a singular purpose. The Arishock would divide and conquer his enemies until the city was his. Then the conversions would begin. I would suspect that the concept of the Qun would appeal to the poor and hungry. Everyone would have a place in society and no one would go hungry. Since the poor outnumber the wealthy, it's highly likely conversion would be successful. Then the Qunari would "cleanse" the next city state in the Free Marches.

Hawke did come to Kirkwall though and his actions changed everything. He helped Anders survive the templar trap. He financed part of the expedition into the deep roads and with the warden maps found massive treasure and the idol. This would lead to Meredith's part in starting the mage/templar war. He managed to get Orsino and Meredith to work together and along with Aveline as captain of the guard (who came to Kirkwall with Hawke) they successfully defended Kirkwall with Hawke leading and defeated the Arishock and his army.

Now, does this make Hawke the most important character in the world of Dragon Age? No, it does not. This makes Hawke a local hero, a champion of the city. It's what Hawke did on Sundermount that made him the most important character in the world. Who he saved might have saved the world or doomed it. "Hurled into the chaos you fight and the world will shape before you". This is what Flemeth said to Hawke before saying to herself "is it fate or chance, I can never decide" She was putting her life in Hawke's hands. When you do perform the ceremony and she appears, she tells you that you saved her life just as she saved yours. She then tells your group, "we stand on the precipice of change, the world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss, watch for that moment and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall when you learn if you can fly." I totally felt like she was addressing this to Anders, but I guess she wouldn't be if he wasn't in your group. Flemeth and Morrigan know something huge is coming and they are both preparing for it. I don't think it's the war either. I think the war is what sparks the bigger event. Speak to Sandal and eventually he will drop the simpleton speech and whisper what I believe is coming.

[RavenB]

Varric says that line, but he's well known for his exaggerations. He's basically the fantasy world version of a corporate PR guy. If you notice, they mention in the ending scenes that they were looking for the warden too, not just Hawke.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Hawke certainly didn't do anything in DA 2 in my mind that justifies becoming the most important person in Thedas. He stopped a chaotic situation before it got even more out of hand but even the symbol he represented to the mages and Templars has to be of fairly limited importance in the grand scheme of things and it was mostly indirectly. The Warden did more but even they really only affected one country. The Blight would have most likely been stopped eventually somewhere else had he or she failed.

If you're counting the most influential person in the world at the time I almost have to suspect it would the Architect. He caused the Fifth Blight in the first place and was in the position to very conceivably change the darkspawn and their impact on Thedas forever.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 09 avril 2011 - 07:48 .