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[PantheraOnca]

So I don't know why its taken me this long to really notice it, but what's up with all the bird statues throughout Kirkwall (Hightown and Gallows)? Did birds mean something to the Teviniter? Have these bird peices been added after the Tevinter left? What does that have to do with the glyphs we see when loading zones? What about the Amell family crest that looks like 2 birds holding each other's claws, or perhaps fighting?

Or is it just an attempt to make Hawke seem more integral to things?

[Oneiropolos]

Well, we know the kirkwall insignia (which I have as a necklace, actually) is a stylized dragon. But you ARE correct about there apparently being some big connection with birds.

Also, we DO know the birds have something to do with the Tevinter Imperium. In fact, Those bird men statues in homes, you have one in your library, and if you click it to examine it enough, Hawke will say Fenris hates that statue because it reminds him of the ones in Tevinter that were of old gods.

Which is interesting, isn't it? We haven't really heard a connection between bird images and old gods before... but there does seem to be one. Everyone just assumes dragons....

[UnresoIved]

Well I can't specifically recall any information given in the game about birds(I don't really read much of codex's), but birds are a pretty common symbol of freedom in literature. Considering Kirkwall used to be a slave city with statues of them everywhere, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that the city built bird statues to commemorate their freedom.

[tmp7704]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I'm pretty sure the symbol of Kirkwall after the Tevinter Imperium fell is a Falcon

It was symbol of the family which ruled Kirkwall afterwards iirc.

Well, that or they're just taunting Shale.

[Maria Caliban]

And there are also the bird statues in the primordial thaig.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 07 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[frustratemyself]

They're to honour all the pigeons that mysteriously died in Ferelden soon after the blight was over.

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

And there are also the bird statues in the primordial thaig.

Are they really bird statues though, or just unintended similarity of the shape? The pen-s rocks from Awakening come to mind...

[PantheraOnca]

Quick, someone load a save of the room where you fight the dragon in the deep roads, are there birdthings there?

[tmp7704]

thurmanator692 wrote...

the what?

these guys:



they're all over the place and yes, they actually do shoot out white "it's just steam, honest" stuff every now and then...

[Maria Caliban]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Quick, someone load a save of the room where you fight the dragon in the deep roads, are there birdthings there?

No. There are statues of squatting dwarves.

[PantheraOnca]

Maria Caliban wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

Quick, someone load a save of the room where you fight the dragon in the deep roads, are there birdthings there?

No. There are statues of squatting dwarves.

Yeah, i remember the dwarves, but i was wondering if there were any of the eaglehead type things you see towards the top of buildings in hightown.

[Oneiropolos]

You know though, if you look at the screenshot of the thaig.. it looks an awful lot like the 'old god' statues in Kirkwall (and apparently that's how they look in Tevinter too, since Fenris dislikes them for that reason.) I dunno.. it could indeed be something.

[Beerfish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

And there are also the bird statues in the primordial thaig.

I thought that was a Bob Hope statue.

[frustratemyself]

tmp7704 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

the what?

these guys:



they're all over the place and yes, they actually do shoot out white "it's just steam, honest" stuff every now and then...

 Gonna have to go back and play awakenings now to check this.

[barrelofmonkeyzz]

I have a very strong suspicion that they're ravens.

The city was designed and built by a tevinter magister named Emerius Krayven. (codex Kirkwall 1)

The city was built upon the ancient remains of Dirthamen's favorite city (codex Varterral)

Dirthamen is the elven god of secrets and magic. He is served by 2 beings known as the ravens of Fear and Deceit.
Fear and Deceit were left unchained in the world when Dirthamen was locked away by Fen'Harel. (DA:O codexes for Dirthamen and Falon'din)

The Amell crest is 2 birds, probably ravens. The PC!Hawke has a cousin named "Charade Amell". Charade is a synonym for deceit. This means that Hawke is probably supposed to represent an agent of fear/paranoia, and the 2 of you will be responsible for finishing the resurrection of the god of magic who is trapped under the city. (See the codex for the Enigma of Kirkwall, the conversation with the elven blood mage Huon where he says that his wife's blood sacrifice under the Alienage tree will help make his people strong again, the diplomatic conversation with the pride demon Hybris where he rants about searching for and collecting the key fragments under the city before "3 charlatans" trapped him and locked him away, and Sandal's prophecy about everyone being able to do magic again once "he" returns)

[PantheraOnca]

barrelofmonkeyzz wrote...

I have a very strong suspicion that they're ravens.

The city was designed and built by a tevinter magister named Emerius Krayven. (codex Kirkwall 1)

The city was built upon the ancient remains of Dirthamen's favorite city (codex Varterral)

Dirthamen is the elven god of secrets and magic. He is served by 2 beings known as the ravens of Fear and Deceit.
Fear and Deceit were left unchained in the world when Dirthamen was locked away by Fen'Harel. (DA:O codexes for Dirthamen and Falon'din)

The Amell crest is 2 birds, probably ravens. The PC!Hawke has a cousin named "Charade Amell". Charade is a synonym for deceit. This means that Hawke is probably supposed to represent an agent of fear/paranoia, and the 2 of you will be responsible for finishing the resurrection of the god of magic who is trapped under the city. (See the codex for the Enigma of Kirkwall, the conversation with the elven blood mage Huon where he says that his wife's blood sacrifice under the Alienage tree will help make his people strong again, the diplomatic conversation with the pride demon Hybris where he rants about searching for and collecting the key fragments under the city before "3 charlatans" trapped him and locked him away, and Sandal's prophecy about everyone being able to do magic again once "he" returns)

I'll subscribe to your newsletter. Maybe this gives that raven feather trash item some additional meaning? Probably not.

[Oneiropolos]

Hm. Didn't someone say the next old god due to be resurrected was the one of mystery?

(I can't help but see a contrast with Odin with a god that has two ravens. Odin in Norse Mythology had ravens who's names meant Memory (Munnin) and Thought (Huginn), even more random is Odin was also considered a god of magic...and prophecy. As well as wisdom, war, battle, death, victory...the guy had a long resume.)

Okay, so while I let my mind muse on that, I did a mindless search for the two remaining old gods and found this on the dragon age wiki:
Razikale is one of the slumbering Old Gods (of the two that remain). The Tevinter Dragon of Mystery. Worshipped by the Tevinter Imperium, Razikale like his brothers is an enormous draconic figure of immense power. He has yet to be corrupted by darkspawn, though unless the darkspawn are wiped out it is only a matter of time.

Interesting, isn't it? Also of interest, I looked up the references for Dirthamen and Falon'din, Falon'din is the elven god of death, the guide that leads others to rest beyond the veil. Which is where Dirthamen and Falon'din are supposedly...beyond the veil because as twins, they can't stand to be apart. But here's the thing. The last dragon? Is the dragon of night. Which is one way death could be viewed. Now. I'm not implying the elven gods got turned into dragons or...anything radical like that. I just find it interesting we have a story of two brothers (gods of secrecy and death respectively) who dwell behind the veil, one of them is known for the two ravens he subdued, we're seeing this bird motif going on, we're in a place where the Tevinter Imperium TRIED to thin the veil on purpose and apparently succeeded, AND we happen to have two dragons left that were worshipped by the Tevinter Imperium as the gods of mystery and death. It seems...quite coincidental.

Edit: I didn't even think of those raven feathers. I thought it was weird it was raven feathers. And I even considered, "Is it a reference to the crows?" but then went "But that doesn't make sense because ravens and crows are two separate birds..." Are we getting too conspiracy here?

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 07 avril 2011 - 08:30 .

[PantheraOnca]

As the Great Unknown Plot Device, Flemeth could be one of the Ravens as well as any of the other things she may be. Hell, she could be both; both the ravens, not both-a-raven-and-also-the-laundry-list, although that's also a possibility.

[Oneiropolos]

Okay, this is me being a dork and actually justifying having a book on symbols and signs because I'm a history major who also has a whole two shelves devoted to mythology of civilizations. Some excerpts from the one book I'm looking at, if we consider that the writers may have taken a cue from real world symbolism: "In the Qu'ran, the word for "Bird" is synonymous with "Fate" and in Greek, "Bird" and "Omen" have the same meaning...The Latin word for "augury"...actually has its root in the meaning of the word "bird" and also gives us "inauguration." Bird augury wasn't exclusive to the Romans but was carried out by Tibetans, Indians, Native Americans, Mexicans, Egyptians, Mayans, and Celts. Sacred places around the world were defined by bird symbols and messages."

As far as Ravens in particular, it discusses Odin's ravens and how they were sources of information there, but... this is the part people are going to love... "More sinisterly, the raven is seen as a harbinger of death, as personified in the Morrigan, the great Battle Goddess of the Celtic myth who takes on the form of a raven."

Of course, our Morrigan DOES wear the black feathers on her one shoulder...they could very well be raven feathers. And Anders himself seems to take on darker feathers when his outfit goes all black for the end. Again, raven feathers are likely. Does that mean anything? NO IDEA. Just throwing it out there for more speculation.

Edit: Forgive any typos, I'm tired AND my keyboard is being  obnoxious tonight. ><

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 07 avril 2011 - 08:53 .

[Ealos]

The Dumars' emblem is a falcon, I think, though this wouldn't explain all the statues. I doubt the fact that Morrigan has black feathers on has anything to do with anything, tbh, it'd look silly if she wore flamingo skin.

[Merced652]

tmp7704 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

And there are also the bird statues in the primordial thaig.

Are they really bird statues though, or just unintended similarity of the shape? The pen-s rocks from Awakening come to mind...

hahaha