81 réponses à ce sujet

[Mnemnosyne]

Conduit0 wrote...

Eh, I just can't buy the idea that the red lyrium is purely an artistic choice when we still see normal blue lyrium just a little while before. I can accept it being as simple as blue lyrium good, red lyrium baaaaaad. But not, ooooh, red mood lightning would be sooooo hawt for this thaig.

Where do we see blue lyrium?  Or do you mean the glowing whatevers that protrude from cavern walls?  I'm not sure that's lyrium, nobody seems either interested or concerned about it.  Supposedly, humans being really close to raw lyrium would be very bad, although given the similarly retarded treatment of lyrium back in DA:O where it actually heals you it's really hard to say much about it storywise as compared to what we see.

All the little resource nodes that are any sort of lyrium in the game all look the same though - little piles of red/grey stuff, which is what I meant by all the lyrium looking red.

[Herr Uhl]

Koyasha wrote...

Conduit0 wrote...

Eh, I just can't buy the idea that the red lyrium is purely an artistic choice when we still see normal blue lyrium just a little while before. I can accept it being as simple as blue lyrium good, red lyrium baaaaaad. But not, ooooh, red mood lightning would be sooooo hawt for this thaig.

Where do we see blue lyrium?  Or do you mean the glowing whatevers that protrude from cavern walls?  I'm not sure that's lyrium, nobody seems either interested or concerned about it.  Supposedly, humans being really close to raw lyrium would be very bad, although given the similarly retarded treatment of lyrium back in DA:O where it actually heals you it's really hard to say much about it storywise as compared to what we see.

All the little resource nodes that are any sort of lyrium in the game all look the same though - little piles of red/grey stuff, which is what I meant by all the lyrium looking red.

The thing lighting the caves is generally lyrium or lava. Take your pick.

[Mnemnosyne]

Hmm, something curious just occurred to me relating to the primeval thaig and specifically the idol. Bartrand and Varric both talk about hearing a song or music, and a woman's voice - Varric can't make it out, Bartrand seemed to hear it clearly even after the idol was gone.

This seems curiously similar to the 'song' of the Old Gods that drives the darkspawn to search for them. It's always referred to as a song, and some comment on the voice of the Archdemon, such as Ruck.

Then we have Grey Warden interest in the primeval thaig and the results of the expedition, the exact nature of which is never revealed, but it seems unlikely the First Warden would command a dangerous expedition for something that he doesn't have cause to believe is darkspawn-related.

This seems to suggest that the primeval thaig and the idol have some connection to the darkspawn and the old gods.

[Andaril78]

Perhaps I´ve missed out comments about the golems but i´ve not have the patience to read through three pages

But...Wasn´t the golems shaped by an paragon around the first blight?
If so, why are it golems in the Primeval Thaig? If the primeval thaig is so old that it predates the Paragons then it should not be golems in there...

An missing link? Or simply dwarven raiders with an host of golem bodyguards who gets missing when they stumbles upon the Primeval Thaig... Bah, I doubt we ever gets the whole story behind the Primeval Thaig.
But an DLC there Hawke more deeply investigates the Primeval Thaig AFTER the events in the third Act would be interesting. Perhaps an story with ties to an eventual DA 3.

[Mnemnosyne]

There was only one golem there, wasn't there? I don't recall any others except the one you fight right after where Bodahn and Sandal are off-hand. There were old scavenger tales from after the Third Blight, so it's reasonable to presume that the golem was brought by the scavengers that first discovered that thaig, whose stories are what Bartrand was following.

Alternately the theory has been proposed that Caridin merely rediscovered how to make golems, and the process is actually much older than him, but this doesn't really seem supported by his own words and his journal entries. It is possible, though.

[The Angry One]

There's one golem after Bodahn/Sandal and another in a room full of Shades just after the idol.

[stjasonl1]

I think the elves were dwarves a long time ago something happened and all the dwarves with magic left/got kicked out and made their way to the surface and evolved into the elves.

[kedcoleman]

Koyasha wrote...

Hmm, something curious just occurred to me relating to the primeval thaig and specifically the idol. Bartrand and Varric both talk about hearing a song or music, and a woman's voice - Varric can't make it out, Bartrand seemed to hear it clearly even after the idol was gone.

This seems curiously similar to the 'song' of the Old Gods that drives the darkspawn to search for them. It's always referred to as a song, and some comment on the voice of the Archdemon, such as Ruck.

Then we have Grey Warden interest in the primeval thaig and the results of the expedition, the exact nature of which is never revealed, but it seems unlikely the First Warden would command a dangerous expedition for something that he doesn't have cause to believe is darkspawn-related.

This seems to suggest that the primeval thaig and the idol have some connection to the darkspawn and the old gods.

Lyrium also sings to spirits in the Fade, according to Awakenings Justice.

[Blacklash93]

When is a woman's voice mentioned by Varric and Bartrand?

Beside that, I wonder if the red lyrium appears more and more as you go further underground. The ancient Thaig was well beneath the deep roads and the expedition was also said to have reached down further than anyone ever has so it's possible.

I also wonder why it's called "pure lyrium". How would anyone know what it is?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 08 avril 2011 - 12:34 .

[Mnemnosyne]

When Varric and Hawke go back to Bartrand's mansion in Act III, Varric starts hearing things, including a song and a woman's voice that he can't quite make out.

Bartrand, on the other hand, seems to converse with a voice that isn't there. I seem to remember an indication that it's a woman's voice, but I am not completely certain on that fact.

[Amagoi]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

There is another piece of evidence that may be suggesting that there were Golems created before Caridin, and that Caridin may have simply re-discovered a lost science of the ancient Dwarves:

The Tevinters were known for the three giant war Golems they purchased from the Dwarves. It is probable that these were purchased during the peak days of Tevinter, which would be before the first Blight, which would be before the time of Caridin.

In fact, Caridin discovered the process of Golem creation while their civilization was facing a grim threat (Blight) and the process itself requires large quantities of Lyrium. The Primeval Thaig Dwarves had access to much larger quantities of Lyrium. Their ancient civilization was very likely wiped out by a disaster worse than the Blight, and their ingenuity may surpass that of modern Dwarves.

So it's very likley that Golems were invented before Caridin.

But I admit, it's much more likely that the Primeval Thaig Golems we encountered were simply Caridin type Golems which wandered off/had their control rod broken. Like Shale, but at much less desirable locations.

So, theoretically, the Primeval Dwarves created the process of enslaving souls to golems and had evil lyrium idols that drove people mad?

They do not sound like a fun bunch to have at a party at all.

[PantheraOnca]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

PantheraOnca wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Red and Blue are just pretty colors that look Magical. Green looks like vegetables or poison so it's not used, for example.

This line of reasoning is silly. Green can look magical, orange can look magical, about the only color I have a hard time imagining as magical is brown.

More likely is that red is typically viewed as hot/uncontrolled/dangerous while blue is typically viewed as cool/calm/safe.

So you'd be OK with green lyrium? They don't remind you of vegetables? Well they do for me. : P Green may look radioactive, but no. Not magical. Maybe magical like Poison Ivy, but that's basically poisonous vegetable. Green is associated with plants and life, not with lifeless minerals such as Lyrium.

There's theories that lyrium is the blood of the old gods. are you saying if you say lightsaber-green veins going through a wall in the deep roads you'd think "plant."? I don't.

magic pigs.

Orange may work, but it's too close to the color of larva, which is the major background color of the Deep Roads/a lot of other dungeons. That might make the Lyrium hard to find visually. A lot of locations (Sundermount, Wounded Coast) also have green/brown as one of their major colorings, making any green Lyrium hard to find visually.

Just cause it would blend in with lava doesn't mean it wouldn't look magical. You seem to be confusing possibility with ... efficacy? presentation? Sure there are considerations to take into effect, but that doesn't mean that blue and red are the ONLY possible colors for lyrium. You could say the red would blend in too much with lava, or stone or whatever.



Bam. Throw that in a cavern in the Deep Roads and you've got yourself an orange lyrium node like we see blue and red.

Which inspired my google fu to find a better green pic:

Like the quest where they as you to find the Harlot's Blush, which is that blue flower on the Wounded Coast. Ever wonder why it's not a white flower?

I don't even know what color it is, I use tab for that stuff.

Modifié par PantheraOnca, 08 avril 2011 - 06:19 .

[Alelsa]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

^ Huh? What's tab?

On the PC version, the Tab key highlights objects you can interact with.

Also, I was just absent-mindedly trying to click the ME2 buttons on your sig, forgetting I was only playing Bioware:Forum at the moment

[Mnemnosyne]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Well, the creation of Golems is basically drowning an individual with molten Lyrium. The Primeval Dwarves have Lyrium lying around them in practically limitless quantities. They also showed Lyrium crafting abilities surpassing all of current Thedas, as apparently the idol is unique in that no other craftsman currently in Thedas is capable of crafting anything out of pure Lyrium - mostly due to how poisonous it is.

These two factors (material availability and technical mastery) make it very likely for the Primeval Dwarves to be able to create Golems.

And I don't think it's necessary for a Golem to be enslaved - you can simply forgo the control rod, although that would be very dangerous. A lot of Dwarves also volunteered to be made into Golems, so it's not like it's a cruel punishment. At least not at first. Hell, if I were an old dying Dwarf, I would have volunteered to be made into a Golem myself.

I do not remember the details, but I seem to remember there being some mention of the golem process being so agonizingly painful that the person is essentially driven insane in almost all cases, and only a control rod prevents them from going on an uncontrollable rampage.  Unfortunately I can't recall the codex entry or where I read that, so I can't be absolutely certain about it.

I'm also pretty sure there's more to the creation process than drowning an individual in molten lyrium and then forging the shell around them.  The anvil of the void clearly played some important part as a catalyst, which means that if the primeval dwarves had golems they must have had some device like the anvil.

[Densetsu.Eiyuu]

Back to this whole red/blue lyrium coloring discussion... The Red/grey lyrium nodes we see laying about are RAW lyrium, which means that in the natural state, lyrium is red, and in the refined or "purified" state it is blue.

[KyleOrdrum]

I tend to agree with the idea that the idol was the cause of the darkspawn. Consider how very "gollum" Bartrand was becoming, and as pointed out, the idol's song and the darkspawn song seem very similar. As to the original questions, I can't say why, but for some reason when I look at the idol, I am reminded of Flemeth. Which reminds me...does anyone understand the connection between Flemeth and the elves?

[DarthSliver]

This is quite an interesting theory. Its obvious that the Primeval Thaig was meant to be more than just a Demon infested Thaig. It would be interesting if those dwarves were the cause of the Blight and Darkspawn with the Tevinters just being at the wrong place and wrong time with everything happening. You would think the Tevinters wouldve been wiped out than and there if the stories we are given are truly true. Remember when the Qunari invaded Thedas, the Chantry did the whole Divine March thing on them and drove them back to Par Vollen. One would think they wouldve done the same to the Tevinters if they truly did cause all the Blights and Darkspawn to come about.

[Mnemnosyne]

I don't think them being the cause of the darkspawn really fits, either. There's clearly some sort of connection, but I don't think it's that one.

If they were, it seems to follow that the entire primeval thaig would be infested with darkspawn, or at least darkspawn corruption. But we don't see any darkspawn in the primeval thaig, and there's no indication that any have ever been there.

[Beerfish]

Hey weren't we supposed to be exposed to or hear about a new race in this game? I thought for sure there was some chatter about it back when DA2 was being developed. (Am I brain dead and getting DA2 and Mass Effect mixed up?)