130 réponses à ce sujet

[Miashi]

Bioware games are "ready-to-wear". If you want personalized content, there's a thing called modding that allows you to do "alterations" to the game.

[Torax]

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Relshar wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

1. You do realise that Bioware is Canadian? And that EA also has studios in Canada? More than one?

As for the rights of a consumer? Um. Hate to break it to you. Bioware doesn't really owe us a custom-made game, tailored to each individual. They made a game. You didn't like it. Too bad. So sad. I loved it. Spending money on a game doesn't guarantee anything. Purchasing said game doesn't give you rights beyond the ability to play the thing on your console of choice. You have the game. It's complete. You might not like it, you might hate it, but you have it. Ergo, the payer/payee transaction is complete. You have a right to the disc working. Otherwise, you can exchange for one that functions properly. But, nowhere on a game does it guarantee that it'll be bug free or just what you wanted or anything.

As for this open letter to Gaider, you do realise he is not the sole hand in this franchise? He is not even the sole writer? He works within a group and they need to cooperate with other groups that do other functions. He is not an island.

As for the rest, I see you taking a lot of his comments out of context and either are willfully or unintentionally misinterpreting them.

So you're (fixed your grammar) saying we should be quiet and accept a poor quality game?
If this is the case then BioWare is going to fail in DA:3 because 90% of the reviews I read or hear about DA:2 are bad. And if BioWare brings out DA:3 without improvements ( more along the lines of what a dragon age game should be like as in DA:O). BioWare is going to be shut down by EA like all the other devlopment companies EA have owned.
You just got to look at EA's history from companies they have taken over. Its like looking at this.

Awesome work taking my comment out of context. I was discussing OP's desire to be able to sue the company for a "Low Quality" game. I was discussing consumer rights in regards to that particular aspect of the OP.

You don't have to be quiet. I never said "don't complain". I said "you don't have a right to a personally tailored product" which is entirely different. As a consumer, your purse strings speak your opinion better than anything else.

Anyhow, Gaider et al are taking into consideration the criticism received for the game. Reviews are openly asked for in this very forum. So, again, my point was about consumer rights versus comany repsonsibility. It had nothing to do with whether people should whinge on about something wherever they please.

When we are talking about video games "we don't have a right to a personally tailored product"". OK. But please consider what would happen when you say that your seamstress. You are basically saying that people have no right to ask for personally tailored products.  

Now that is just petty. Attempting to compare a seamstress's work to a mass production video game IP? Are you even trying or just attempting to have the last word?

Did you read what I write? Please don't make me explain everything explicitly. I copy it here again:

When we are talking about video games "we don't have a right to a personally tailored product"". OK. But please consider what would happen when you say that your seamstress. You are basically saying that people have no right to ask for personally tailored products.  

Just tell me how you connect the second part to the first part. I basically say that your argument is valid for video games but it will fail for other products or services. You are irritated of me so much that you can't think straight anymore. What will happen when in future nanotechnology allow personilized products be cheaper than mass production products? That is of course a speculation but think about it.

No, you are so conceded that you just type to read your own words while trying to tell everyone else they are wrong. That only you can be right. Just like how you are a better writer than both of the professionals. For example you wrote a "novel" if you can call it that about Balder's Gate that is better than a writer that has done multiple novels for Bioware on top of some directly for Lucas Arts. A writer who was even referenced in a April Fool's joke a week a go on Blizzard's Website. Yes, that writer you claim to be better than.

This is all your ego in here. You occasionally may admitt to something you should have left out yet you have no interest in removing. You act as if everyone else is stupid and or not understanding you for the most part. You did infact compare someone doing something that is by hand right in front of someone to an intellectual property that has to be mass produced on multiple venues a head of time. It was a petty response by you and you act like we didn't read it just because we don't agree with you.

Modifié par Torax, 07 avril 2011 - 01:40 .

[Darth Krytie]

Ksandor wrote...

Did you read what I write? Please don't make me explain everything explicitly. I copy it here again:

When we are talking about video games "we don't have a right to a personally tailored product"". OK. But please consider what would happen when you say that your seamstress. You are basically saying that people have no right to ask for personally tailored products.  

Just tell me how you connect the second part to the first part. I basically say that your argument is valid for video games but it will fail for other products or services. You are irritated of me so much that you can't think straight anymore. What will happen when in future nanotechnology allow personilized products be cheaper than mass production products? That is of course a speculation but think about it.

Why must everything with you end in a tangent? Bringing up totally irrelevant facts and issues is derailing the conversation. Every point I brought up in this thread is in direct reference to relevent issues. Consumer rights with seamstresses are completely irrelevant to your original post. This is why you have problems. Because you take things out of context and apply some inexplicable thought process to them and end up five miles away from the original point. It's as if whole eggs go into your head and come out cheeseburgers.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 07 avril 2011 - 02:01 .

[Ksandor]

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Relshar wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

1. You do realise that Bioware is Canadian? And that EA also has studios in Canada? More than one?

As for the rights of a consumer? Um. Hate to break it to you. Bioware doesn't really owe us a custom-made game, tailored to each individual. They made a game. You didn't like it. Too bad. So sad. I loved it. Spending money on a game doesn't guarantee anything. Purchasing said game doesn't give you rights beyond the ability to play the thing on your console of choice. You have the game. It's complete. You might not like it, you might hate it, but you have it. Ergo, the payer/payee transaction is complete. You have a right to the disc working. Otherwise, you can exchange for one that functions properly. But, nowhere on a game does it guarantee that it'll be bug free or just what you wanted or anything.

As for this open letter to Gaider, you do realise he is not the sole hand in this franchise? He is not even the sole writer? He works within a group and they need to cooperate with other groups that do other functions. He is not an island.

As for the rest, I see you taking a lot of his comments out of context and either are willfully or unintentionally misinterpreting them.

So you're (fixed your grammar) saying we should be quiet and accept a poor quality game?
If this is the case then BioWare is going to fail in DA:3 because 90% of the reviews I read or hear about DA:2 are bad. And if BioWare brings out DA:3 without improvements ( more along the lines of what a dragon age game should be like as in DA:O). BioWare is going to be shut down by EA like all the other devlopment companies EA have owned.
You just got to look at EA's history from companies they have taken over. Its like looking at this.

Awesome work taking my comment out of context. I was discussing OP's desire to be able to sue the company for a "Low Quality" game. I was discussing consumer rights in regards to that particular aspect of the OP.

You don't have to be quiet. I never said "don't complain". I said "you don't have a right to a personally tailored product" which is entirely different. As a consumer, your purse strings speak your opinion better than anything else.

Anyhow, Gaider et al are taking into consideration the criticism received for the game. Reviews are openly asked for in this very forum. So, again, my point was about consumer rights versus comany repsonsibility. It had nothing to do with whether people should whinge on about something wherever they please.

When we are talking about video games "we don't have a right to a personally tailored product"". OK. But please consider what would happen when you say that your seamstress. You are basically saying that people have no right to ask for personally tailored products.  

Now that is just petty. Attempting to compare a seamstress's work to a mass production video game IP? Are you even trying or just attempting to have the last word?

Did you read what I write? Please don't make me explain everything explicitly. I copy it here again:

When we are talking about video games "we don't have a right to a personally tailored product"". OK. But please consider what would happen when you say that your seamstress. You are basically saying that people have no right to ask for personally tailored products.  

Just tell me how you connect the second part to the first part. I basically say that your argument is valid for video games but it will fail for other products or services. You are irritated of me so much that you can't think straight anymore. What will happen when in future nanotechnology allow personilized products be cheaper than mass production products? That is of course a speculation but think about it.

No, you are so conceded that you just type to read your own words while trying to tell everyone else they are wrong. That only you can be right. Just like how you are a better writer than both of the professionals. For example you wrote a "novel" if you can call it that about Balder's Gate that is better than a writer that has done multiple novels for Bioware on top of some for directly for Lucas Arts. A writer who was even referenced in a April Fool's joke a week a go on Blizzard's Website. Yes, that writer you claim to be better than.

This is all your ego in here. You occasionally may admitt to something you should have left out yet you have no interest in removing. You act as if everyone else is stupid and or not understanding you for the most part. You did infact compare someone doing something that is by hand right in front of someone to an intellectual property that has to be mass produced on multiple venues a head of time. It was a petty response by you and you act like we didn't read it just because we don't agree with you.

The last part of the last sentence. That is exactly what I think of. And aside my personal talent if you automatically think that an official writer is superior to fanfic writers by definition... Well I don't even want to reply to this. Getting famous is not usually connected to talent. The man wrote the scenario of the game and they made him to write the novel too, then he got connections and wrote Star Wars and Mass Effect Novels. This makes him a good writer how? Do you think that every elected politician or CEO is more intelligent or even more experienced than us? Do you think that status and rank define talent or talent defines status? Do you think that only hard working people get rich? Do you think that the only good writers are the people we buy their books from Amazon? I can't believe that you could be... well... so naive? I like Star Trek and Star Wars novels. But most df them are written by mainstream writers, like those who write game novelatizations, they are mediocre at best. Please don't make me compare Throne of Bhaal to Tolstoy's War and Peace. They are industrial mainstream writers. They write books for a living but you can't call that literature. For consumption and fun only. Sheesh you people are amazing in what the hell is wrong with you kind of way. Do you know that Nobels are usually awarded to people not because they are good writers but because they criticize their nation to defend the interests of other nations supporting them by allowing them to publish their books offshore?  

Modifié par Ksandor, 07 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Torax]

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...



No, you are so conceded that you just type to read your own words while trying to tell everyone else they are wrong. That only you can be right. Just like how you are a better writer than both of the professionals. For example you wrote a "novel" if you can call it that about Balder's Gate that is better than a writer that has done multiple novels for Bioware on top of some for directly for Lucas Arts. A writer who was even referenced in a April Fool's joke a week a go on Blizzard's Website. Yes, that writer you claim to be better than.

This is all your ego in here. You occasionally may admitt to something you should have left out yet you have no interest in removing. You act as if everyone else is stupid and or not understanding you for the most part. You did infact compare someone doing something that is by hand right in front of someone to an intellectual property that has to be mass produced on multiple venues a head of time. It was a petty response by you and you act like we didn't read it just because we don't agree with you.

The last part of the last sentence. That is exactly what I think of. And aside my personal talent if you automatically think that an official writer is superior to fanfic writers by definition... Well I don't even want to reply to this. Getting famous is not usually connected to talent. The man wrote the scenario of the game and they made him to write the novel too, then he got connections and wrote Star Wars and Mass Effect Novels. This makes him a good writer how? Do you think that every elected politician or CEO is more intelligent or even more experienced than us? Do you think that status and rank define talent or talent defines status? Do you think that only hard working people get rich? Do you think that the only good writers are the people we buy their books from Amazon? I can't believe that you could be... well... so naive? I like Star Trek and Star Wars novels. But most df them are written by mainstream writers, like those who write game novelatizations, they are mediocre at best. Please don't make me compare Throne of Bhaal to Tolstoy's War and Peace. They are industrial mainstream writers. They write books for a living but you can't call that literature. For consumption and fun only. Sheesh you people are amazing in the what hell is wrong with you way. Do you know that Nobels are usually awarded to people not because they are good writers but they criticize their nation to defend the interests of other nations supporting them by allowing them to publish their books offshore?  

I'm also about to take the word of some guy on the internet who claims he's a better writer than all these professionals without ever being published. Especially when his only responses is about how everyone else who read what he typed are the ones who are wrong and not reading what he typed. Meanwhile also loving to focus change his topic as he goes.

Btw that part of you mentioning the Nobel Prize was you going on a tangent avoiding the subject about how you're crazy and full of yourself.

Modifié par Torax, 07 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Miashi]

If you think you're a better writer, I'll tell you straight off the bat: I don't need to read your Baldur's gate remake to know that it's garbage. Making up a story from scratch is far more difficult that picking someone's work and feed from it.

If you were that good of a writer, you'd make up your very own story. But you just can't.

[Ksandor]

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...



No, you are so conceded that you just type to read your own words while trying to tell everyone else they are wrong. That only you can be right. Just like how you are a better writer than both of the professionals. For example you wrote a "novel" if you can call it that about Balder's Gate that is better than a writer that has done multiple novels for Bioware on top of some for directly for Lucas Arts. A writer who was even referenced in a April Fool's joke a week a go on Blizzard's Website. Yes, that writer you claim to be better than.

This is all your ego in here. You occasionally may admitt to something you should have left out yet you have no interest in removing. You act as if everyone else is stupid and or not understanding you for the most part. You did infact compare someone doing something that is by hand right in front of someone to an intellectual property that has to be mass produced on multiple venues a head of time. It was a petty response by you and you act like we didn't read it just because we don't agree with you.

The last part of the last sentence. That is exactly what I think of. And aside my personal talent if you automatically think that an official writer is superior to fanfic writers by definition... Well I don't even want to reply to this. Getting famous is not usually connected to talent. The man wrote the scenario of the game and they made him to write the novel too, then he got connections and wrote Star Wars and Mass Effect Novels. This makes him a good writer how? Do you think that every elected politician or CEO is more intelligent or even more experienced than us? Do you think that status and rank define talent or talent defines status? Do you think that only hard working people get rich? Do you think that the only good writers are the people we buy their books from Amazon? I can't believe that you could be... well... so naive? I like Star Trek and Star Wars novels. But most df them are written by mainstream writers, like those who write game novelatizations, they are mediocre at best. Please don't make me compare Throne of Bhaal to Tolstoy's War and Peace. They are industrial mainstream writers. They write books for a living but you can't call that literature. For consumption and fun only. Sheesh you people are amazing in the what hell is wrong with you way. Do you know that Nobels are usually awarded to people not because they are good writers but they criticize their nation to defend the interests of other nations supporting them by allowing them to publish their books offshore?  

I'm also about to take the word of some guy on the internet who claims he's a better writer than all these professionals without ever being published. Especially when his only responses is about how everyone else who read what he typed are the ones who are wrong and not reading what he typed. Meanwhile also loving to focus change his topic as he goes.

Btw that part of you mentioning the Nobel Prize was you going on a tangent avoiding the subject about how you're crazy and full of yourself.

A Prized or official writer is not a good writer by definition. Companies pay other companies to award their products so they can publish it in their official pages as success stories all the time. Did you know this? Can you see the connection? Not crazy no, I think you are level headed person but you don't know some matters.

[Ksandor]

Double post

Modifié par Ksandor, 07 avril 2011 - 02:07 .

[Ksandor]

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...



No, you are so conceded that you just type to read your own words while trying to tell everyone else they are wrong. That only you can be right. Just like how you are a better writer than both of the professionals. For example you wrote a "novel" if you can call it that about Balder's Gate that is better than a writer that has done multiple novels for Bioware on top of some for directly for Lucas Arts. A writer who was even referenced in a April Fool's joke a week a go on Blizzard's Website. Yes, that writer you claim to be better than.

This is all your ego in here. You occasionally may admitt to something you should have left out yet you have no interest in removing. You act as if everyone else is stupid and or not understanding you for the most part. You did infact compare someone doing something that is by hand right in front of someone to an intellectual property that has to be mass produced on multiple venues a head of time. It was a petty response by you and you act like we didn't read it just because we don't agree with you.

The last part of the last sentence. That is exactly what I think of. And aside my personal talent if you automatically think that an official writer is superior to fanfic writers by definition... Well I don't even want to reply to this. Getting famous is not usually connected to talent. The man wrote the scenario of the game and they made him to write the novel too, then he got connections and wrote Star Wars and Mass Effect Novels. This makes him a good writer how? Do you think that every elected politician or CEO is more intelligent or even more experienced than us? Do you think that status and rank define talent or talent defines status? Do you think that only hard working people get rich? Do you think that the only good writers are the people we buy their books from Amazon? I can't believe that you could be... well... so naive? I like Star Trek and Star Wars novels. But most df them are written by mainstream writers, like those who write game novelatizations, they are mediocre at best. Please don't make me compare Throne of Bhaal to Tolstoy's War and Peace. They are industrial mainstream writers. They write books for a living but you can't call that literature. For consumption and fun only. Sheesh you people are amazing in the what hell is wrong with you way. Do you know that Nobels are usually awarded to people not because they are good writers but they criticize their nation to defend the interests of other nations supporting them by allowing them to publish their books offshore?  

I'm also about to take the word of some guy on the internet who claims he's a better writer than all these professionals without ever being published. Especially when his only responses is about how everyone else who read what he typed are the ones who are wrong and not reading what he typed. Meanwhile also loving to focus change his topic as he goes.

Btw that part of you mentioning the Nobel Prize was you going on a tangent avoiding the subject about how you're crazy and full of yourself.

Oh by the way you are the other guys on the net. So don't get cocky.

[Torax]

Did you seriously post three times quoting yourself? Umm you may want to step away for a while. I think you fully became unhinged.

[Ksandor]

Torax wrote...

Did you seriously post three times quoting yourself? Umm you may want to step away for a while. I think you fully became unhinged.

You should be really careful. There is a new line in each of the new posts. One was double post though. Though sidestepping the issue with personal attacks won't improve your position. 

Modifié par Ksandor, 07 avril 2011 - 02:10 .

[Torax]

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...

Did you seriously post three times quoting yourself? Umm you may want to step away for a while. I think you fully became unhinged.

You should really be careful. There is a new line in each of the new posts. One was double post though. Though sidestepping the issue with personal attacks won't improve your position. 

Why not. You've been doing that yourself to so many others in this very thread...

[Ksandor]

Torax wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Torax wrote...

Did you seriously post three times quoting yourself? Umm you may want to step away for a while. I think you fully became unhinged.

You should really be careful. There is a new line in each of the new posts. One was double post though. Though sidestepping the issue with personal attacks won't improve your position. 

Why not. You've been doing that yourself to so many others in this very thread...

You confess that you are sidestepping... Since you are reduced to a really pathetic state it is time for me to leave. What was I saying all along? Personal attacks, no substance. Hollier than thou attitude. Like you were paid by Bioware. Pitiful.

[Torax]

side·step   
[sahyd-step] Show IPA
verb, -stepped, -step·ping.
–verb (used without object)
1.
to step to one side.
2.
to evade or avoid a decision, problem, or the like.

When have I avoided or changed my mind on anything. When I have actually changed the topic of said conversation. You do. Not me.

Modifié par Torax, 07 avril 2011 - 02:16 .

[Miashi]

Welp, it was entertaining while it lasted.

[JJDrakken]

Miashi wrote...

Bioware games are "ready-to-wear". If you want personalized content, there's a thing called modding that allows you to do "alterations" to the game.

You shouldn't depend on a unpaid workforce of players to make a game better/workable, when the game company itself just charged you X amount of money, then sits back lets it's community to do it's work for it, for free.


JJ

[Miashi]

Sure, but some people do enjoy modding quite a bit. Hey, I'm not defending DA:2, but I'm just pointing out that Bioware allows the game to be altered as such. Just wish they'd release the toolset for DA:2 though :T

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[Plaintiff]

Ugh. "open letter" is just a smug way of saying "list of complaints you've heard a million times, written in an excessively wordy fashion in a vain attempt to appear intelligent".

[Torax]

Miashi wrote...

Sure, but some people do enjoy modding quite a bit. Hey, I'm not defending DA:2, but I'm just pointing out that Bioware allows the game to be altered as such. Just wish they'd release the toolset for DA:2 though :T

Just think though. If they did that. Odds are so many of the bugs and stuff would have been fixed by now. For PC anyway. hehe.

[Miashi]

Torax wrote...
Just think though. If they did that. Odds are so many of the bugs and stuff would have been fixed by now. For PC anyway. hehe.

AGREED. ;3

edit:

"You shouldn't depend on a unpaid workforce of players to make a game
better/workable, when the game company itself just charged you X amount
of money, then sits back lets it's community to do it's work for it,
for free."

Just want to add on to this; this system works quite well with World of Warcraft mods. Modders aren't paid for what they do, but sometimes their mods are so good or innovative that some of them made their way to the game, a-la-blizzard naturally. But it's a great way to acknowledge and thank the modders without paying them.

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 03:00 .

[Jsixgun]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ugh. "open letter" is just a smug way of saying "list of complaints you've heard a million times, written in an excessively wordy fashion in a vain attempt to appear intelligent".

Absolutely yes! Every time I read one i'm thinking it sounds like the kid in class who likes to anwser all the questions to sound smart...but really just makes everyone roll their eyes. 

On the topic of Gaider, my hats off to the guy. He's been verbally beaten silly on here, and is still gracious enough to give the forums his attention and actually communicate with us. If he had stayed silent and watched from the sidelines, however, I bet we wouldn't have so many "eloquent" open letters. 

Modifié par jakecollette, 07 avril 2011 - 03:05 .

[Eollodwyn]

jakecollette wrote...

On the topic of Gaider, my hats off to the guy. He's been verbally beaten silly on here, and is still gracious enough to give the forums his attention and actually communicate with us. If he had stayed silent and watched from the sidelines, however, I bet we wouldn't have so many "eloquent" open letters. 

This.  Personally, I think the devs put up with a lot more crap than they deserve and I love the fact that they come around here to talk to the fans.  It's actually one of the major reasons I'm on this forum, since I usually don't bother with forums (fora?).

[_Aine_]

edit: deleted. 

Modifié par shantisands, 07 avril 2011 - 06:48 .

[Orion34]

Enough with these open letters already. Find yourself some thicker skin and move on.

[Lianaar]

Ksandor wrote...
I personally prefer female Shepard in terms of walking animation. I want to ask something though. Which audience segment do you think Bioware aimed to reach by making Hawke walk like that? Straight guys, gays, lesbians, bisexuals? I think most likely straight teenage boys. I mean you say this is subjective but is their decision subjective?

Actually I do like that you pinpointed something. Since as I wrote, you can achieve things this way.
Issue you have: you dislike the way female Hawke moves
solution: make it less sexual.

This is something people can do about. A clearly described and pinpointed aspect with a request of the direction of modification. I think the debate in this thread would be way less heated if we had more from this sort of arguments.

Since I am not teenage boy, and I liked the way Hawke moved, I am not sure it is intended for teenage boys. I found the motion to be feminine (and not sexy, being a straight woman), and I was pleased that finally she didn't move like a male. Usually when people make animation of this sort they ask people to move so they can see what they are to model. Accordingly I can bet there are women in RL who move this way naturally.

Now I do wonder if the motion of Hawke was aimed at making people horny (as you seem to presume) or if it was aimed to make female Hawke different then male Hawke (since teenage boys might not necessarily play female Hawke, again I never been one, nor do I have a child being a teenage boy, so I can only generalise in this matter). Many things in DA2 are aimed at making people distinct and preserving their own image. Something that is only typical to that very character, that makes you note from little signs, that it is that given character. Clothing, motions, tune of voice, typical line of text... I would put female Hawke walking style into this cathegory personally.