44 réponses à ce sujet

[Perles75]

Probably this topic can be framed in the general problem of DA2 that your choices don't really matter too much.
Anyway, I was quite disappointed by the fact that the choice that you make at the end of the prologue - whether to work for the smugglers or the mercenaries for a year - does not have almost any repercussion later.

I mean, this choice marks your entry pass into the society of Kirkwall, and most likely it allows you to create some contacts, friends, enemies, etc. So it is somehow a key moment for Hawke. Why is it not pursued for the game's sake?
For example, if I choose the smugglers and I'm interested in pursuing not-so-legal activities, why don't I have the possibility, if I want, to get the control of Athenril's group, or make Kirkwall become the headquarters of my own thieves' guild, or becoming the criminal mastermind of Lowtown, etc.? the same goes with the mercenaries. After all, the story spans ten years, so such developments are absolutely realistic in terms of timeline...

I really feel this was a missed occasion.

[LobselVith8]

That sounds like an interesting idea, Perles75. There were a lot of missed opportunities in DA2 to have Hawke influence and change the world around him - specifically, Kirkwall. I would have liked to see Hawke take the reigns of the smuggler enterprise and make decisions that could make or break the smugglers, possibly help the mages leave Kirkwall to the pro-mage nation of Ferelden, and even dealing with the powerful Coterie.

[Cutlass Jack]

I would have loved more in this regard. But going smuggler it did make me feel more connected to fighting rival gangs on the streets at night at least.

I think it was something they wanted to make more meaningful and probably would have if there was more development time. Because it was a real opportunity for replayability.

[The Baconer]

I think they should have expanded upon working for the mercs/smugglers, maybe 1 or 2 notable 'jobs' before having the time skip. I felt really disconnected from Hawke when I was suddenly meeting people left and right going "OH YEAH WHATS UP REMEMBER ALL THOSE GOOD TIMES?"

[Forst1999]

I don't know. Both organisations are clearly criminal. I always thought it made sense that Hawke wanted out as soon as possible. Even if your Hawke isn't on the lawful side, getting caught is a heavy risk that you might not want to take when you are an apostate or harboring one. Joining the expedition although seemed like the better way to get rich.

[KJandrew]

Yeah i was thinking this while playing it. I would of preferred it if maybe people like Bran or the Viscount had more respect for a mercenary over a Smuggler. I mean all you got was one quest depending on which group you side with. I think it would have been better if maybe the Coterie were more aggressive towards you as a smuggler. Also a thing that confused me why is Aveline ok with you being a smuggler for a year?

[Forst1999]

KJandrew wrote...

Yeah i was thinking this while playing it. I would of preferred it if maybe people like Bran or the Viscount had more respect for a mercenary over a Smuggler. I mean all you got was one quest depending on which group you side with. I think it would have been better if maybe the Coterie were more aggressive towards you as a smuggler. Also a thing that confused me why is Aveline ok with you being a smuggler for a year?

Well, because the alternative is being a hired killer? "Mercenary" sounds okay, but both quests for them ivolve killing people.

[KJandrew]

Forst1999 wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Yeah i was thinking this while playing it. I would of preferred it if maybe people like Bran or the Viscount had more respect for a mercenary over a Smuggler. I mean all you got was one quest depending on which group you side with. I think it would have been better if maybe the Coterie were more aggressive towards you as a smuggler. Also a thing that confused me why is Aveline ok with you being a smuggler for a year?

Well, because the alternative is being a hired killer? "Mercenary" sounds okay, but both quests for them ivolve killing people.

In medieval kind of setting being a mercenary was atleast seen as 'honest' work whereas smugglers were just simple criminals

[Forst1999]

In their act I mission they send you to murder a nobleman. How is that honest work? This mercenaries are not "soldiers for hire", they are thugs.

[silver-crescent]

KJandrew wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Yeah i was thinking this while playing it. I would of preferred it if maybe people like Bran or the Viscount had more respect for a mercenary over a Smuggler. I mean all you got was one quest depending on which group you side with. I think it would have been better if maybe the Coterie were more aggressive towards you as a smuggler. Also a thing that confused me why is Aveline ok with you being a smuggler for a year?

Well, because the alternative is being a hired killer? "Mercenary" sounds okay, but both quests for them ivolve killing people.

In medieval kind of setting being a mercenary was atleast seen as 'honest' work whereas smugglers were just simple criminals

I for one got the feeling that in DA2 the smugglers were "better" than the mercenaries. They were both criminal groups yes, but at least the smugglers didn't murder people. 

[Maria Caliban]

Perles75 wrote...

Why is it not pursued for the game's sake?

Cut content.

Did you notice after you did the Act 1 quest for the smugglers and Red Iron, both leaders talked about a job board with notifications?

[CloudOfShadows]

Yeah, I did notice that too... I even went looking for a minute or so if I just didn't see those... lol

[Forst1999]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Perles75 wrote...

Why is it not pursued for the game's sake?

Cut content.

Did you notice after you did the Act 1 quest for the smugglers and Red Iron, both leaders talked about a job board with notifications?

Maybe it wasn't cut, but replaced? Could be the quests you get from them through the letters (Fenris recruitment, Meeting with Hubert). I could imagine that Bioware made them independant from the quest you do directly for them, because of people who don't want to work with criminals anymore. Just an idea.

[The Angry One]

Forst1999 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Perles75 wrote...

Why is it not pursued for the game's sake?

Cut content.

Did you notice after you did the Act 1 quest for the smugglers and Red Iron, both leaders talked about a job board with notifications?

Maybe it wasn't cut, but replaced? Could be the quests you get from them through the letters (Fenris recruitment, Meeting with Hubert). I could imagine that Bioware made them independant from the quest you do directly for them, because of people who don't want to work with criminals anymore. Just an idea.

Neither of those quests are the least bit related to the activities these two groups perform (assassination, theft, etc.), they wouldn't fit as quests done *for* them.

[TobiTobsen]

silver-crescent wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

KJandrew wrote...

Yeah i was thinking this while playing it. I would of preferred it if maybe people like Bran or the Viscount had more respect for a mercenary over a Smuggler. I mean all you got was one quest depending on which group you side with. I think it would have been better if maybe the Coterie were more aggressive towards you as a smuggler. Also a thing that confused me why is Aveline ok with you being a smuggler for a year?

Well, because the alternative is being a hired killer? "Mercenary" sounds okay, but both quests for them ivolve killing people.

In medieval kind of setting being a mercenary was atleast seen as 'honest' work whereas smugglers were just simple criminals

I for one got the feeling that in DA2 the smugglers were "better" than the mercenaries. They were both criminal groups yes, but at least the smugglers didn't murder people. 

I agree with that. The smugglers seemed to have at least some kind of integrity, 'cause they didn't murder anyone and weren't in the slaver buisness. The Red Iron looked like the "We get paid, we don't ask questions. If you **** with us, you're dead" type of guys who would murder their mother if they got paid good enough.

[Crocodiles]

nevermind 

Modifié par Crocodiles, 07 avril 2011 - 06:02 .

[Perles75]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Perles75 wrote...

Why is it not pursued for the game's sake?

Cut content.

Did you notice after you did the Act 1 quest for the smugglers and Red Iron, both leaders talked about a job board with notifications?

one spare quest can hardly be considered "developing the consequences of your choice", I think...

[Perles75]

Forst1999 wrote...

I don't know. Both organisations are clearly criminal. I always thought it made sense that Hawke wanted out as soon as possible. Even if your Hawke isn't on the lawful side, getting caught is a heavy risk that you might not want to take when you are an apostate or harboring one. Joining the expedition although seemed like the better way to get rich.

I agree with that... I guess it reflects the fact that both jobs are provided by Gamlen, which is not exactly the most transparent person of the game.
Indeed I miss a bit the options for people who want to play a more "lawful" character. For example, I always wondered why, if Aveline managed to get a job in the city guard, a Hawke warrior couldn't have done the same. I know that's for the story's sake (two characters in the guard would have been redundant and not interesting) but still I feel that the transition between the prologue and Act I is one of the weak points of the story.

I may mention also that I would have liked  more mage-oriented options (Gamlen was too casual in speaking about the presence of a new apostate in town, perhaps this news could have reached some interested ears, as the blood mages society... *hint hint*)

The point, anyway, is that, even with the small range of options that are provided, a player does not have the possibility to exploit that choice more, if he/she wants.

[TobiTobsen]

Perles75 wrote...

Forst1999 wrote...

I don't know. Both organisations are clearly criminal. I always thought it made sense that Hawke wanted out as soon as possible. Even if your Hawke isn't on the lawful side, getting caught is a heavy risk that you might not want to take when you are an apostate or harboring one. Joining the expedition although seemed like the better way to get rich.

I agree with that... I guess it reflects the fact that both jobs are provided by Gamlen, which is not exactly the most transparent person of the game.
Indeed I miss a bit the options for people who want to play a more "lawful" character. For example, I always wondered why, if Aveline managed to get a job in the city guard, a Hawke warrior couldn't have done the same. I know that's for the story's sake (two characters in the guard would have been redundant and not interesting) but still I feel that the transition between the prologue and Act I is one of the weak points of the story.

I may mention also that I would have liked  more mage-oriented options (Gamlen was too casual in speaking about the presence of a new apostate in town, perhaps this news could have reached some interested ears, as the blood mages society... *hint hint*)

The point, anyway, is that, even with the small range of options that are provided, a player does not have the possibility to exploit that choice more, if he/she wants.

How exactly did Aveline, as a refuge fresh from the boat, get a job in the guard anyway? I thought you needed to work for a year so you could get into town and make yourself a name so you wouldn't be shipped back right away? What was Aveline doing? As soon as you're in the city after you were sold into servitude she starts working for the guard while Hawke and his/her sibling are paying the debt for everyone, including Aveline. And she doesn't seem to speak very often to Hawke, if I interpreted their first meeting in the baracks right.

"Thanks for getting me into town. Oh, and have fun working for the scum of the earth! I'm off, byebye!"
That's one hell of a way to show your gratitude.

[Loc'n'lol]

Most likly because they felt it wasn't that important and didn't have time.
Would it have been cool if it was in ? Absolutely.
Would it have drastically altered the game experience on its own ? No.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 08 avril 2011 - 11:57 .

[electricfish]

TobiTobsen wrote...
How exactly did Aveline, as a refuge fresh from the boat, get a job in the guard anyway? I thought you needed to work for a year so you could get into town and make yourself a name so you wouldn't be shipped back right away? What was Aveline doing? As soon as you're in the city after you were sold into servitude she starts working for the guard while Hawke and his/her sibling are paying the debt for everyone, including Aveline. And she doesn't seem to speak very often to Hawke, if I interpreted their first meeting in the baracks right.

"Thanks for getting me into town. Oh, and have fun working for the scum of the earth! I'm off, byebye!"
That's one hell of a way to show your gratitude.

Aveline was made a guard so quick because she was an officer in the Ferelden army and probably got a vote of confidence by Captain Ewel (or whatever his name is) when Hawke and friends fight the deserters in Act 1. She may have been brought in as a "temporary recruit" like Hawke was in the Way It Should Be quest, and impressed the guard enough that they brought her in as a full member.
Carver mentions an application for being made a guard and I'll bet Aveline filled out a pretty good one for her to be hired in in that year.

[Cariborne]

I figured it's because Hawke only wanted to get into Kirkwall, and working with them was a for sure way to get in. After that, he had no more use.

[Dark-sider77]

TobiTobsen wrote...

How exactly did Aveline, as a refuge fresh from the boat, get a job in the guard anyway? I thought you needed to work for a year so you could get into town and make yourself a name so you wouldn't be shipped back right away? What was Aveline doing? As soon as you're in the city after you were sold into servitude she starts working for the guard while Hawke and his/her sibling are paying the debt for everyone, including Aveline. And she doesn't seem to speak very often to Hawke, if I interpreted their first meeting in the baracks right.

"Thanks for getting me into town. Oh, and have fun working for the scum of the earth! I'm off, byebye!"
That's one hell of a way to show your gratitude.

I was under the impression that Aveline also joined Hawke in working for the Smugglers or Mercs (at least i thought she implies this when you ask "What about Aveline?". Also, the Smugglers/Mercs wouldnt just let Aveline in free of charge. When act 1 starts i felt as if you didn't just finish your year of service yesterday, but that you had spent at least a week or two before stumbling upon Bartrand's expiditon. During this time Aveline had gotten a job in the Guard.

[noxsachi]

I really was kinda shocked at how the Mercs acted after the prologue to be honest. As someone mentioned in this time period mercenary work was seen as honest and I really got the whole Caremon/Raistlin vibe going with myself and Carver so that seemed to be the way to go, but in Act 1 Meeran acted like a total ass, which was disconnected even from the letters he wrote me which were in a semi respectful, if not at least businesslike tone.

[TobiTobsen]

Dark-sider77 wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

How exactly did Aveline, as a refuge fresh from the boat, get a job in the guard anyway? I thought you needed to work for a year so you could get into town and make yourself a name so you wouldn't be shipped back right away? What was Aveline doing? As soon as you're in the city after you were sold into servitude she starts working for the guard while Hawke and his/her sibling are paying the debt for everyone, including Aveline. And she doesn't seem to speak very often to Hawke, if I interpreted their first meeting in the baracks right.

"Thanks for getting me into town. Oh, and have fun working for the scum of the earth! I'm off, byebye!"
That's one hell of a way to show your gratitude.

I was under the impression that Aveline also joined Hawke in working for the Smugglers or Mercs (at least i thought she implies this when you ask "What about Aveline?". Also, the Smugglers/Mercs wouldnt just let Aveline in free of charge. When act 1 starts i felt as if you didn't just finish your year of service yesterday, but that you had spent at least a week or two before stumbling upon Bartrand's expiditon. During this time Aveline had gotten a job in the Guard.

If I understood the "talk" between her and the (soon ex) guard captain right she worked her way up to lieutenant in one year. So it sounds to me as if Aveline left to work for the Guard as soon as they were in the city, while Hawke and his sibling were paying of the debt, including the one for Aveline.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 09 avril 2011 - 09:00 .