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Improved haste mechanics


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8 réponses à ce sujet

#1
thehun

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I'm unsure exactly how this spell works out, technically, and would like some discussion and clarification upon it. Bear with me as I outline my understanding of certain things first.

A round is split into 10 segments initially, correct?
I get this from the casting time of spells, which go from 1 to 9, and then some state '1 round' (i.e. casting time 10), so each round has little segments, each of length 0.6 seconds?

I understand this spell works by splitting a standard 6 second round into 2 mini-rounds of 3 seconds.
Now, what is actually happening here? Is it now a case of 2 mini-rounds of 5 segments of length 0.6 each, or are these segements now split into 0.3 second intervals, and we have 2 mini-rounds of 10 segments of length 0.3; the same segements in each mini-round as a normal round.

More importantly, as well as doubling attacks, do these mini-rounds actually function as 'rounds' in their own right, as in each one now allows a spell to be cast/potion to be drunk, i.e. you can now quaff 2 potions in 6 seconds, as opposed to 1? Does normal haste allow this too? (I don't think it does).

The last bit (casting/drinking double in 6 seconds as well as 'doubling attacks') is the most crucial, and if so, it should probably be mentioned in the spell descritpion as another of the major differences between this and normal haste, as this is surely an aspect of the spell not to be ignored.

Then again, perhaps this has always been obvious to everyone!

Modifié par thehun, 07 avril 2011 - 02:27 .


#2
Dante2377

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I'm not sure how spell casting works or using items/potions, but from an attack perspective, it really is 2 separate 3 second rounds - meaning that if you are dual wielding and get 4 attacks per round (3 main 1 offhand), under Imp Haste you would get this in one 6-second period, in order: 3 attacks main hand, 1 attack offhand, 3 attacks main hand, 1 attack offhand.

Normal haste doesn't do anything funny to your round, it just adds +1 attack and increases movement.

#3
thehun

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Thanks, good to know the order. How did you know/check this?

Still hoping the potion/spell thing can be answered; I'll just check it eventually when I reinstall the game, but am hoping someone knows. My feeling is you CAN cast/drink twice as many in 6 secs...unsure though, just a random guess based on you saying the order repeats (50% chance of being right anyway!).

Also, a related sort of query: I've heard that the animations of combat do not actually line up to attacks being made - i.e. the character is swinging away on screen but the only thing that counts is the dice rolls occuring in the engine behind the scenes. I want to know how true this is, i.e. to what extent this applies.

For example, I believe the information I am recalling was about too many animations showing compared to attacks actually happening. I do not believe it is ever possible to have too few animations compared to attacks - certainly I don't recall ever seeing someone take damage and the person attacking NOT being in the middle of having swung his sword. Perhaps I'm wrong, is this possible?

The former case i'm pretty convinced is possible; there's a certain amount of minimum 'swings' your avatar will take, but if you only have 1 attack per round, then obviously some of those are 'fake'.

Hope it's clear what I mean, and i'm sure someone can set me straight here.

#4
Shadow_Leech07

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thehun wrote...

I'm unsure exactly how this spell works out, technically, and would like some discussion and clarification upon it. Bear with me as I outline my understanding of certain things first.

A round is split into 10 segments initially, correct?
I get this from the casting time of spells, which go from 1 to 9, and then some state '1 round' (i.e. casting time 10), so each round has little segments, each of length 0.6 seconds?

I understand this spell works by splitting a standard 6 second round into 2 mini-rounds of 3 seconds.
Now, what is actually happening here? Is it now a case of 2 mini-rounds of 5 segments of length 0.6 each, or are these segements now split into 0.3 second intervals, and we have 2 mini-rounds of 10 segments of length 0.3; the same segements in each mini-round as a normal round.

More importantly, as well as doubling attacks, do these mini-rounds actually function as 'rounds' in their own right, as in each one now allows a spell to be cast/potion to be drunk, i.e. you can now quaff 2 potions in 6 seconds, as opposed to 1? Does normal haste allow this too? (I don't think it does).

The last bit (casting/drinking double in 6 seconds as well as 'doubling attacks') is the most crucial, and if so, it should probably be mentioned in the spell descritpion as another of the major differences between this and normal haste, as this is surely an aspect of the spell not to be ignored.

Then again, perhaps this has always been obvious to everyone!

Alright I might be misinterpreting your questions but I will try to answer them. Improved haste doubles the target character's attacks per round. Basically just multiply your character's APR 2x, as well as increasing the movement speed.

The spell haste on the other hand is an area spell which grants +1 attack per round to all characters in the area as well as increasing movement speed.

Neither haste or improved haste affect spell casting or drinking potions. When one cast spells, one can only do so for the round. This is where casting speed comes in, and from what I read in your post that you already have a good idea what it is. It is also similar to weapon speed factor.  I hope this helps.

Thanks, good to know the order. How did you know/check this?

The character's profile screen usually gives a accurate description of APR.

Also, a related sort of query: I've heard that the animations of combat do not actually line up to attacks being made - i.e. the character is swinging away on screen but the only thing that counts is the dice rolls occuring in the engine behind the scenes. I want to know how true this is, i.e. to what extent this applies.

The animation does show an attack being made but you must remember that it is a generic animation which may 'seem' like an attack has succeeded but in reality, it is only a generic animation. Does that make sense?

The former case i'm pretty convinced is possible; there's a certain amount of minimum 'swings' your avatar will take, but if you only have 1 attack per round, then obviously some of those are 'fake'.

I've never encountered this situation so I would probably need more elaboration on this.

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 08 avril 2011 - 10:50 .


#5
thehun

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Shadow_Leech07 wrote...

Alright I might be misinterpreting your questions but I will try to answer them. Improved haste doubles the target character's attacks per round. Basically just multiply your character's APR 2x, as well as increasing the movement speed.

The spell haste on the other hand is an area spell which grants +1 attack per round to all characters in the area as well as increasing movement speed.

Neither haste or improved haste affect spell casting or drinking potions. When one cast spells, one can only do so for the round. This is where casting speed comes in, and from what I read in your post that you already have a good idea what it is. It is also similar to weapon speed factor.  I hope this helps.


I figured since the round is being split in some way, perhaps the splits of 3 seconds are considered as separate rounds in their own right by the engine, allowing 2 castings in a 6 sec window under improved haste. That was where I was coming from. Interesting then to know that really it does not affect spells/drinking. Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks, good to know the order. How did you know/check this?

The character's profile screen usually gives a accurate description of APR.


I meant how he checked the order was 3 main hand attacks, then 1 off-hand, then repeating, as opposed to any other combination, e.g. 6 main hand then 2 off-hand. Of course I do know how to simply check the APR.
I can see a few ways he could have checked it, and am just wondering if he did so manually in-game, or perhaps using one of the many programs out there for modding the game such as Infinity explorer, Near Infinity, etc. Just curious.

Also, a related sort of query: I've heard that the animations of combat do not actually line up to attacks being made - i.e. the character is swinging away on screen but the only thing that counts is the dice rolls occuring in the engine behind the scenes. I want to know how true this is, i.e. to what extent this applies.

The animation does show an attack being made but you must remember that it is a generic animation which may 'seem' like an attack has succeeded but in reality, it is only a generic animation. Does that make sense?


You say here, in the above, that it is indeed a generic animation that is essentially playing out, and so may show an attack where one has not actually occured...

thehun wrote...
The former case i'm pretty convinced is possible; there's a certain amount of minimum 'swings' your avatar will take, but if you only have 1 attack per round, then obviously some of those are 'fake'.


Shadow_Leech07 wrote...
I've never encountered this situation so I would probably need more elaboration on this.


But here you say you have not encountered that? Am i missing something here?....by the 'former' I was referring to the animation showing a swing and no actual 'to-hit' roll, which you seem to agree with in the previous statement and then say you have not in fact seen such a mis-alignment; i'm a little confused what you mean.


Edit: I think i know what you meant, maybe there is no animation that plays when no hit-rolls are happening, but instead it simply swings on each to-hit, whether successful or not, which makes sense. This would look like it its not the case only if you have to-hit rolls not displaying in the combat log. In that case only successful hits are registered in the log, and this is where some people may have got the idea, myself included (I vary the options to sometimes show them, sometimes not); so that's probably where my confusion is coming from and you're almost certainly correct!

Thanks.

Modifié par thehun, 08 avril 2011 - 02:29 .


#6
Biotic_Warlock

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Does Impr. haste and whirlwind attack stack?

#7
thehun

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Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Does Impr. haste and whirlwind attack stack?


No. Either way of casting order: Whirlwind sets it to 10, and imp haste will do nothing.
The other way around, well imp haste will double your attacks to whatever, and then whirlwind will set it to 10.

In fact I think 10 is the limit to max number of attacks in the game; I think the game starts to wrap it around after that in the case it might go over (some bug with melf's minute meteors i think can result in 'more' than 10 attacks, which will then start to wrap around to 1 again).

#8
Biotic_Warlock

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ah shame, 20 attacks per round would be cool XD

one hit like evry half second, Bwahaha!

I got glitched in NWN2 as well... i went above like 7 attacks per round with my monk/cleric/sacred fist and it said 'error' where number of attacks and attack bonus was.

I think i pretty much ended up with 10 or 12 attacks per round.

Modifié par Biotic_Warlock, 08 avril 2011 - 02:43 .


#9
Dante2377

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Couple of quick answers

- Correct, the character animations for attacking are not sync'd up with your actual number of attacks. You can validate by attack with a character who only gets 1 attack (non-fighter type) - they'll make the attack animation multiple times until you actually see a die roll.

- the best way to check is to set the feedback to show attack rolls. Attack rolls from the left hand (off hand) have

(left)

in the the text line.