63 réponses à ce sujet

[Any0day]

varcety wrote...

Yes, that's the point of this thread.
It's technically impossible to make separate content for each different path(I'm talking about the world-defining choices here, like whether or not taking part in Morrigan's ritual).

Lol, it's technically impossible... because... you say it is?

If it's ''technically possible" for the game to track your choices within the confines of one game, why oh why is it too much to ask for the second game to track those choices as well? I mean, they had what -- 7 origin stories for DAO -- why would it be too terribly hard to have small break off's at the start of the game to explain things that transpired? Even if Leliana is destined to come back whether you kill her or not, why can't it be explained? Your argument holds no water when Bioware themselves go against it.
As far as the dark ritual goes -- you're right. There's no way we can play the warden again because for some people he's dead.

[varcety]

Any0day wrote...

Lol, it's technically impossible... because... you say it is?

Just think how much effort they will have to put into each world-changing scenario. If you don't help Morrigan with ritual(or volunteered Alistair for the job) there would be no old-god-baby(this is a very crucial turning point, here).

Unless Bioware will minimise these choices down to some secondary quests in future games.

[The Angry One]

varcety wrote...

Any0day wrote...

Lol, it's technically impossible... because... you say it is?

Just think how much effort they will have to put into each world-changing scenario. If you don't help Morrigan with ritual(or volunteered Alistair for the job) there would be no old-god-baby(this is a very crucial turning point, here).

You assume it is.
For all we know the god baby is about as significant to the overall plot as Superman.

[NeroSparda]

The Angry One wrote...

varcety wrote...

Any0day wrote...

Lol, it's technically impossible... because... you say it is?

Just think how much effort they will have to put into each world-changing scenario. If you don't help Morrigan with ritual(or volunteered Alistair for the job) there would be no old-god-baby(this is a very crucial turning point, here).

You assume it is.
For all we know the god baby is about as significant to the overall plot as Superman.

You mean that the God Baby will punch through space and alter reality?! 

Modifié par NeroSparda, 07 avril 2011 - 05:50 .

[The Angry One]

NeroSparda wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

varcety wrote...

Any0day wrote...

Lol, it's technically impossible... because... you say it is?

Just think how much effort they will have to put into each world-changing scenario. If you don't help Morrigan with ritual(or volunteered Alistair for the job) there would be no old-god-baby(this is a very crucial turning point, here).

You assume it is.
For all we know the god baby is about as significant to the overall plot as Superman.

You mean that the God Baby will punch through space and alter reality?! 

Yes, but before that he will turn to Morrigan and say "The truth is you are a witch, and I AM A MAN!!!"

[Alamar2078]

Lithuasil wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I really think people should just get over it, frankly.

This. In fact, this is a valid response to roughly 75% of the complaints voiced in these forums. Essentially, the whole issue people take with the canon, is because of two bugs, and one companion that you could kill, if you were either royally stupid, or an a*hole. Which about 0,5% of the people actually did.

RUINED FOREVER.

Don't forget that in the epilogue slides [obviously not canon at this point] at the end of Awakenings one optional ending for Anders is to stay in the Wardens and enjoy himself.   This isn't a bug either but just a choice to ignore the epilogue slides.

EDIT:  Either way "get over it" is really the only options fans have at this point.   Folks that are too upset with the DA universe can simply not buy the next game.  Other folks should realize [as has been posted] that most choices will only have impacts on the game at hand and aren't designed to have lasting effects on the DA universe.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 07 avril 2011 - 06:06 .

[Cutlass Jack]

NeroSparda wrote...

You mean that the God Baby will punch through space and alter reality?! 

No he will pull off his diaper and throw it at Flemeth, causing it to expand dramatically and bind her. Then he will imprison her for all time in the Eluvian Zone.

[Any0day]

Now that I think about it, Bioware could always do another Warden story, because the only way that story would exist is if you chose life instead of death. (Or they could do some kind of fade origin story about scratching and crawling your way back to life, could be interesting)

I mean, that's what Valve did in Half Life 2. In Half Life you had a choice to join the gman, or fight an endless horde of aliens that just outright killed you. Valve assumes you chose to live, because without taking that choice there would be no half life 2.

[sphinxess]

What strikes me as funny is all the people that hope to see "their" warden make an appearence in the game - without canon is not going to happen - 26? different wardens if your warden lived from origins - plus a warden from a dlc that not everyone bought let alone the game remembering if your warden was in a romance <throws up hands in disbelief>

Modifié par sphinxess, 07 avril 2011 - 08:19 .

[The Angry One]

sphinxess wrote...

What strikes me as funny is all the people that hope to see "their" warden make an appearence in the game - without canon is not going to happen - 26? different wardens if your warden lived from origins - plus a warden from a dlc that not everyone bought let alone the game remembering if your warden was in a romance <throws up hands in disbelief>

With enough development time and dropping gimmicks like fully voiced protagonists it could happen.
It won't with EA's rush rush profit attitude but still.

[Parrk]

So you're saying that my warden-champion could have both Merrill and Liliana?



SIGN ME UP!

She will be so delighted.

[Oneiropolos]

I think David Gaider has stated elsewhere that they actually have a lot of information on what players have chosen to do within DA:O, how this was gathered, I dunno. Could have to do with the achievements, but that wouldn't give them indication of who chose what in DAII. Honestly, if it mattered that much to Bioware, they could just ask "Are you willing to send your choices to Bioware?" at the end of each playthrough.

That said, I would not see even this as being 'binding' to them. It lets them know what the majority of players chose, but I would much rather that the WRITERS decide what needs to be done in order to make an awesome story, even if it's what I personally didn't choose. As someone stated, they didn't know how well DA:O would go over with the fans, so they gave you the option to kill ALOT of the companions. You could have sided with the templars and never gotten Wynne. You could leave Sten to die in Lothering, you could leave Lelaina to die in Lothering, you could kill Lelaina and Wynne at the sacred ashes, you could kill Shale at the Anvil of the Void scenario. You could kill Zevran when he first was introduced OR later with Taliesan. You could have Alistair executed.
.... the only ones I think you can't actually kill are Morrigan and Oghren. You can even kill yourself at the end. So you could make an argument that the stupid drunken dwarf and the 'daughter' of Flemeth are the only actual canon from the first game. Well. And Dog. OR You could go, "Clearly, they were just letting us make what choices we want to, but they're extreme options and if a person chose to do all that, they would have nothing to build another game -off of-." Which would mean that yes, Bioware disregarded your extremely homicidal actions in favor of actually coming up with a more compelling story. I'll cast my vote for the story any day.

[Snowbug]

Oneiropolos wrote...

I think David Gaider has stated elsewhere that they actually have a lot of information on what players have chosen to do within DA:O, how this was gathered, I dunno.

It's the "upload gameplay feedback" tickbox in the options.

[Ymladdych]

The Warden could always come back if the writers wanted to go that route.  For US Wardens, it would be the Orlesian Warden Commander who went to Amaranthine.

Modifié par Ymladdych, 08 avril 2011 - 02:45 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ymladdych wrote...

The Warden could always come back if the writers wanted to go that route.  For US Wardens, it would be the Orlesian Warden Commander who went to Amaranthine.

Then that should've happened in the actual game. Or they should've explained why the US Warden was suddenly alive again; a place in the FAQ that says that they are willing to handwave it if you are, just doesn't cut it for me. Now, if this were just a relatively minor choice or consequence that was retconned, I'd be somewhat okay with this, but retconning one of the big endgame choices isn't justified in my eyes.

[Ymladdych]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Then that should've happened in the actual game. Or they should've explained why the US Warden was suddenly alive again; a place in the FAQ that says that they are willing to handwave it if you are, just doesn't cut it for me. Now, if this were just a relatively minor choice or consequence that was retconned, I'd be somewhat okay with this, but retconning one of the big endgame choices isn't justified in my eyes.

Sorry for the delay in responding...I didn't revisit my history until today.  (Bad habit.)

The Awakening handwave decision was made because of logistical problems with importing and creating a new Warden character.  Could they have fixed it?  Yeah, but it would have sucked resources from other places.  Should they have taken the time to fix it?  Yeah, I think so, but I'm guessing the deadline was out of their hands and they had to make a judgment call. 

Even so, they didn't force anyone to retcon their US decision.  What they *did* do was force players to choose between retconning their US decision or accepting default decisions for Awakening and post-Origins DLC.  (Presumably completed by the Orlesian Commander.)

That being said, as I understand it, if you used a zombified US Warden to complete Awakening, then DA2 will read the import as: US Origins Warden dead, Awakening and post-Origins DLC completed by the Orlesian commander.

At least, that's what the devs were saying before DA2's release, anyhow.  I don't have a zombified US Warden to test it on, though. 

[AlexXIV]

Asking a majority about what they want in a story will probably result in the most shallow and boring story ever.

[kedcoleman]

 So you could make an argument that the stupid drunken dwarf and the 'daughter' of Flemeth are the only actual canon from the first game. Well. And Dog.  

Dog's not canon...It's entirely possible he's left to die at Ostagar.

And, of course, Oghren could be killed in Awakenings.  Though, we all know that Awakenings is somewhat like Vegas:  what happens there stays there.  I'm looking at you Anders...

[In Exile]

The actual solution is to have very few choice so that they do not become combinatorially explosive. This is why - for example - you are not allowed to just play as if it was an open world and attempt to hill the Viscount/Arishok. So the answer to cannon is to force the player into a narrow track.

[Redneck1st]

Torax wrote...

Then you would just anger people who don't fall in line with that canon.

So instead you'll end up with a game more like DA2 or a Mass Effect game where it ends at a result with maybe one or 2 variants beyond companions.

I'd be all for the original OP's suggestion. But your right Torax it would anger some. But I've learned that no matter what, whether it be BW or anyone else you just can't please 100% of the folks 100% ot the time.

[primero holodon]

No, I'd rather import my canon than see sombody elses canon

[Torax]

primero holodon wrote...

No, I'd rather import my canon than see sombody elses canon

This is all why I think Origins was a flawed but nice concept. It makes it really hard to make it an on going world though story wise. You can't account for everything and if you do bother to not worry about displaying some aspects of the old world? Then players will be mad that they don't hear about that other little change. "What happen to the Werewolves?" is an example. Players not happy that it's not even referenced when outside of Fereldon.

Trying to appease every last solution from Origins is not possible. To try and set up one solid canon will anger many. If it does come down to deciding which decisions were made? They will have a larger problem. It's issues like that which probably mean we can kiss Fereldon good bye with Origins. Just like I doubt we'll see much of Kirkwall ever in DA3.

Modifié par Torax, 11 avril 2011 - 09:34 .

[gangly369]

Oneiropolos wrote...

I think David Gaider has stated elsewhere that they actually have a lot of information on what players have chosen to do within DA:O, how this was gathered, I dunno. Could have to do with the achievements, but that wouldn't give them indication of who chose what in DAII. Honestly, if it mattered that much to Bioware, they could just ask "Are you willing to send your choices to Bioware?" at the end of each playthrough.

That said, I would not see even this as being 'binding' to them. It lets them know what the majority of players chose, but I would much rather that the WRITERS decide what needs to be done in order to make an awesome story, even if it's what I personally didn't choose. As someone stated, they didn't know how well DA:O would go over with the fans, so they gave you the option to kill ALOT of the companions. You could have sided with the templars and never gotten Wynne. You could leave Sten to die in Lothering, you could leave Lelaina to die in Lothering, you could kill Lelaina and Wynne at the sacred ashes, you could kill Shale at the Anvil of the Void scenario. You could kill Zevran when he first was introduced OR later with Taliesan. You could have Alistair executed.
.... the only ones I think you can't actually kill are Morrigan and Oghren. You can even kill yourself at the end. So you could make an argument that the stupid drunken dwarf and the 'daughter' of Flemeth are the only actual canon from the first game. Well. And Dog. OR You could go, "Clearly, they were just letting us make what choices we want to, but they're extreme options and if a person chose to do all that, they would have nothing to build another game -off of-." Which would mean that yes, Bioware disregarded your extremely homicidal actions in favor of actually coming up with a more compelling story. I'll cast my vote for the story any day.

I'm sorry but I just have to correct this (it's a pet peeve of mine). Oghren CAN BE KILLED! It's tough to do so, but it is very possible to kill him in Origins.

You may all continue discussing about how so and so should be dead and how you dont care if this is canon or if this is not, etc etc.

[frustratemyself]

But if the story canon is decided by what the majority plays you will end up with male Hawke sailing off into the sunset with an overly buxom pirate......

[KingNothing125]

I prefer the Mass Effect/Import method versus "canon" method. Players crafting their own stories, and the world reflecting their choices... that's the future of video game storytelling. It necessarily leads to exponentially more work for the developers, but it's worth it.

I only got around to playing Mass Effect a few months ago and I think it's one of the greatest series of all time because of its evolving story that takes into account what my various Shepards have done.

I think it's too late for the Warden, and that's sad because I would love to continue to my Warden's adventures. But I'd rather have fond memories of my Warden than play someone else's.