20 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

I think this power is overlooked on soldiers.  It does 2.4 times it's stated damage against biotic barriers.  So here's what I'm thinking:

Use Disruptor ammo on sniper rifles and assault rifles, and incendiary ammo on your shotgun.  Use adrenaline rush MOST of the time.  However, save CS for those times when you fight biotics or collectors.  Even without an immediate adrenaline rush, enemies with thier barriers stripped should fall quickly to a Revenant or a Widow.

[Praetor Knight]

Which CS and Disruptor evolutions are you favoring?

[termokanden]

The wiki says 3.5. Doesn't matter much though. Here's the problem. 3.5 times 100 = 350 damage. Heavy Warp does 200 damage, twice that amount against barriers and armor. Reave also deals more damage than CS, even against barriers. And you can even give your soldier Reave!

But that's only half the story. CS does not get any research upgrades at all. Biotic/tech powers get increased damage and reduced cooldown.

So why use CS?

[jamesp81]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Which CS and Disruptor evolutions are you favoring?

Heavy CS and Heavy Disruptor.  The purpose of CS in this build would be barrier stripping of individual targets.  On veteran and lower difficulty, I'd forego incendiary ammo and put the points into improved flashbang for insta kills on husks.  On hardcore or insanty, I'd get inferno ammo for husk control.

[jamesp81]

termokanden wrote...

The wiki says 3.5. Doesn't matter much though. Here's the problem. 3.5 times 100 = 350 damage. Heavy Warp does 200 damage, twice that amount against barriers and armor. Reave also deals more damage than CS, even against barriers. And you can even give your soldier Reave!

But that's only half the story. CS does not get any research upgrades at all. Biotic/tech powers get increased damage and reduced cooldown.

So why use CS?

Didn't realize Reave did so much barrier damage.  Makes a bit more sense now.  However, I really like getting a crowd control power for my bonus power on Veteran or lower difficulty for husks.

[Praetor Knight]

To get the most out of Heavy CS, Commando would be the better passive evolution.

If I'd use Heavy CS, I'm most likely going to be respec'ing often for when I'm not facing Barriers

And I'd go with the Revvy over Widow to go with Hardened AR, and Improved Flashbang.



Edit: Heavy Reave does like 440 to Armor and Barriers.

Here's a comparision of the damage done by a few powers compared to Reave: http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Talk:Reave

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 07 avril 2011 - 04:14 .

[termokanden]

jamesp81 wrote...

Didn't realize Reave did so much barrier damage.  Makes a bit more sense now.  However, I really like getting a crowd control power for my bonus power on Veteran or lower difficulty for husks.

That's because it's not entirely obvious how Reave works from the description. When you hit someone without defenses, it deals damage over time. But when it's used against defenses, it deals its damage at once.

But when it hits health, it also has other effects like a stun and a health drain. So yes, it's actually crowd control as well.

Heavy Reave deals 40 per second for 5.5 seconds. That's 220 damage instantly against defenses (440 against armor/barriers vs the 350 from CS). It deals 20% less damage on insanity and then 20% more damage when you get the power duration upgrade from research, and on top of that you can of course get +60% damage from research. It gets a bit confusing, but all in all its a vastly better skill than CS. And you'll be using it with a 20% lower cooldown.

Modifié par termokanden, 07 avril 2011 - 04:11 .

[jamesp81]

termokanden wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Didn't realize Reave did so much barrier damage.  Makes a bit more sense now.  However, I really like getting a crowd control power for my bonus power on Veteran or lower difficulty for husks.

That's because it's not entirely obvious how Reave works from the description. When you hit someone without defenses, it deals damage over time. But when it's used against defenses, it deals its damage at once.

But when it hits health, it also has other effects like a stun and a health drain. So yes, it's actually crowd control as well.

Heavy Reave deals 40 per second for 5.5 seconds. That's 220 damage instantly against defenses (440 against armor/barriers vs the 350 from CS). It deals 20% less damage on insanity and then 20% more damage when you get the power duration upgrade from research, and on top of that you can of course get +60% damage from research. It gets a bit confusing, but all in all its a vastly better skill than CS. And you'll be using it with a 20% lower cooldown.

Heavy Reave isn't area effect though, is it?  How does Area Reave compare?

[termokanden]

No but I was comparing it to the heavy CS evolution. Area Reave is 160 damage total, 320 against armor/barriers.

I'm sure CS works and can be used successfully. But I don't see how it can be called a good skill. I think there's pretty much always something better you could be doing with your time than using CS.

Modifié par termokanden, 07 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[RedCaesar97]

I do not want to hate on Concussive Shot. I tried running Heavy Concussive Shot on Samara's recruitment mission (Insanity difficulty) since I would run across Biotic Barriers. I had already completed the Collector Ship mission unfortunately. I respecced into Commando (+15% power damage) and wore the N7 chest (+3% power damage) and whatever the power-damage shoulders are called (+5% power damage). I kept the armor to non-DLC only, since I figure most people who have or will play ME2 will not buy DLC.

So total biotic barrier damage = (100x3.5) + (100x0.23) = 350 + 23 = 373 damage. Very good damage, but apparently not enough to completely strip an enemy's barrier on Samara' loyalty mission. I would think it should be enough for Hardcore difficulty, just not Insanity.

I should also point out that Concussive shot hits with increasingly harder force at higher ranks, but it actually travels faster to hit with the harder force. From my limited time with Concussive Shot, I find that at rank 1 I can curve it around cover much easier than at rank 4 where it tends to hit the cover. I'd have to try it again.

[AK404]

I find concussive is very nice to use when you want to knock a target out of cover. I think that's the primary reason I use it.

[jamesp81]

Hmm, seems the Soldier's other powers are far more valuable.

I do so like watching Garrus blast people with his CS power though.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

CS is best used as the spare power on Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed. Their versions are better than Sheppard's and will not interfere with say, ARush.

As for Area Reave, the main reason it's used is for the AoE effects, which bypass walls. Otherwise, Heavy Reave will be more effective as a single target power, of course. I don't think the differences in life drain effects should make much practical difference in game.

[Mykel54]

I don´t know about soldiers because i don´t play as one, but for squadmates generally concusive shot is useless due to the small damage, therefore it is more useful to upgrade to concusive blast for crowd control (one example of this is Grunt)

But the exception that i have found is Garrus, as he gets +25% power damage from his passive. If you upgrade his power to heavy concusive shot (single target) then the 100 damage becomes 125. When attacking barriers it gets multiplied by 3.5, which results in 437 damage agaisnt barriers, instead of merely 350 that would for example get Grunt. That is a sustantial difference, and i have found Garrus to be quite useful at bringing down barriers with his more powerful concusive shot.

[jasonsantanna]

jamesp81 wrote...

I think this power is overlooked on soldiers.  It does 2.4 times it's stated damage against biotic barriers.  So here's what I'm thinking:

Use Disruptor ammo on sniper rifles and assault rifles, and incendiary ammo on your shotgun.  Use adrenaline rush MOST of the time.  However, save CS for those times when you fight biotics or collectors.  Even without an immediate adrenaline rush, enemies with thier barriers stripped should fall quickly to a Revenant or a Widow.

We've had this discussion before most ppl say that its useless, but I have found uses for it, i know that there our other bonus powers that are stronger but sometimes thats the fun of it , the challenge of using it and for squad mates it does work better, but ive done runs with my soldier and have taken squadmates with only CS and we have kick butt with it on insainty, but thats my opinion
 
http://social.biowar...1/index/6197183

[RedCaesar97]

Mykel54 wrote...

I don´t know about soldiers because i don´t play as one, but for squadmates generally concusive shot is useless due to the small damage, therefore it is more useful to upgrade to concusive blast for crowd control (one example of this is Grunt)

But the exception that i have found is Garrus, as he gets +25% power damage from his passive. If you upgrade his power to heavy concusive shot (single target) then the 100 damage becomes 125. When attacking barriers it gets multiplied by 3.5, which results in 437 damage agaisnt barriers, instead of merely 350 that would for example get Grunt. That is a sustantial difference, and i have found Garrus to be quite useful at bringing down barriers with his more powerful concusive shot.

I am not positive, but I think the +power damage is added after the barrier damage multiplier, so (100 x 3.5) + (100 x 0.25) = 350 + 25 = 375 (not 437). Someone would have to confirm or correct me on that, I do not know for certain how the ME2 math works for that.

Note that for Soldiers, the Commando evolution (class passive) grants a +15% damage increase. Without DLC, you can get an additional +8% (+23% total) with armor pieces. With DLC, you can get +10% (Inferno Armor, +25% total), +13% (Umbra Visor with Dr. Pepper promotion, combined with in-game armor pieces, +28% total), or +15% (Blood Dragon Armor, +30% total).

[Mykel54]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

I don´t know about soldiers because i don´t play as one, but for squadmates generally concusive shot is useless due to the small damage, therefore it is more useful to upgrade to concusive blast for crowd control (one example of this is Grunt)

But the exception that i have found is Garrus, as he gets +25% power damage from his passive. If you upgrade his power to heavy concusive shot (single target) then the 100 damage becomes 125. When attacking barriers it gets multiplied by 3.5, which results in 437 damage agaisnt barriers, instead of merely 350 that would for example get Grunt. That is a sustantial difference, and i have found Garrus to be quite useful at bringing down barriers with his more powerful concusive shot.

I am not positive, but I think the +power damage is added after the barrier damage multiplier, so (100 x 3.5) + (100 x 0.25) = 350 + 25 = 375 (not 437). Someone would have to confirm or correct me on that, I do not know for certain how the ME2 math works for that.

Note that for Soldiers, the Commando evolution (class passive) grants a +15% damage increase. Without DLC, you can get an additional +8% (+23% total) with armor pieces. With DLC, you can get +10% (Inferno Armor, +25% total), +13% (Umbra Visor with Dr. Pepper promotion, combined with in-game armor pieces, +28% total), or +15% (Blood Dragon Armor, +30% total).

This is from the sticky thread about gamepla mechanics

Damage Bonuses

We have
many factors that go into our damage formula, but here a simple example
explaining how much damage Heavy Overload does with Power Armor
(Sentinel) active and rank five + Tech damage researched.

Heavy Overload base damage: 200
Tech damage upgrades rank 5: +50% Tech damage
Power Armor + power damage bonus: +15% power damage

All upgrades and other bonuses are added together first: 50% + 15% = 65% total power damage bonus.
Base Heavy Overload damage becomes: 200 * 1.65 = 330
Resistance bonuses are down last, so if you hit a target with shields, Overload gets x2 damage.
330 * 2.0 = 660 total damage

If we follow this example with Garrus concusive shot:

-Heavy concusive shot base damage: 100
-Garrus passive: +25% power damage
Base heavy concusive shot damage becomes: 100 * 1.25 = 125
Hitting a target with barrier, concusive shot gets x3.5 damage: 125 * 3.5 = 437,5

I don´t think i got the theory wrong, but please if so just tell me. I didn´t know about the +15% power bonus from the soldier passive, that would make for 402 damage instead of 350, perhaps enough to drop a barrier from a single shot.

[jasonsantanna]

just from a guy that uses it ,it would usually take 3 hits from CS to drop a barrier complete, that's from using Garrus I'm not sure from Shep, if I'm remembering correctly

[RedCaesar97]

Mykel54 wrote...
This is from the sticky thread about gamepla mechanics

Damage Bonuses

We have
many factors that go into our damage formula, but here a simple example
explaining how much damage Heavy Overload does with Power Armor
(Sentinel) active and rank five + Tech damage researched.

Heavy Overload base damage: 200
Tech damage upgrades rank 5: +50% Tech damage
Power Armor + power damage bonus: +15% power damage

All upgrades and other bonuses are added together first: 50% + 15% = 65% total power damage bonus.
Base Heavy Overload damage becomes: 200 * 1.65 = 330
Resistance bonuses are down last, so if you hit a target with shields, Overload gets x2 damage.
330 * 2.0 = 660 total damage

If we follow this example with Garrus concusive shot:

-Heavy concusive shot base damage: 100
-Garrus passive: +25% power damage
Base heavy concusive shot damage becomes: 100 * 1.25 = 125
Hitting a target with barrier, concusive shot gets x3.5 damage: 125 * 3.5 = 437,5

I don´t think i got the theory wrong, but please if so just tell me. I didn´t know about the +15% power bonus from the soldier passive, that would make for 402 damage instead of 350, perhaps enough to drop a barrier from a single shot.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Okay, so a non-DLC Shepard can have a maximum +23% damage bonus. So the formula would be:
Heavy Concussive Shot versus biotic barriers: ( 100 * 1.23 ) * 3.5 = 430.5 damage. I would think that 430 damage should be enough to completely strip a basic enemy's barrier. However, from my limited testing, that has not been the case on Insanity difficulty. 

Apart from the Collectors, there are few enemies with a biotic barrier, and most of them are are more advanced enemies with stronger barriers, such as Vanguards and elite Krogan. However, Eclipse mercenaries have a few troopers with some weaker biotic barriers. You can find Eclipse mercenaries on Samara and Thane's recruitment missions and on Miranda's loyalty mission. 

I took Heavy Concussive Shot on Samara's recruitment mission (Insanity difficulty), but it never seemed to completely strip an enemy's biotic barrier. I will have to test this again to make sure. It will probably work better on Harcore difficulty.

[RedCaesar97]

Okay, I ran through Samara's recruitment mission with my Level 17 Soldier on Insanity difficulty. I respecced into the Commando passive (+15% power damage) and equipped the N7 Chest (+3% power damage) and Amplifier Plates (+5% power damage).

I stand corrected: Heavy Concussive Shot WILL completely strip a basic enemy's barrier. Most of the Eclipse mercs you meet early in the mission will be Vanguards with more advanced barriers, but as you progress, you will meet some more basic barriers and Heavy Concussive Shot will take the barriers completely down in shot. No idea if the same would hold true at Level 30.

Concussive Blast (the area version of Concussive Shot) will not strip the barriers, so that is a no-go on Insanity.

I actually had quite a bit of fun on this mission. I took Mordin for his Cryo Blast and Kasumi for her Flashbang. Niftu Cal failed to toss Captain Wasea around like a ragdoll, but I did. I also took the Avenger. It worked better then expected, but you have to practically empty an entire clip to take someone down.

[Mykel54]

Glad to hear it, i tend to forget that most people here play only on insanity, i tend to play on hardcore and on that setting you can drop most barriers, even those of the eclipse vanguards, in a single shot. I usually give Garrus the single target concusive evolution to get the most out of his passive, and because i usually bring him to missions agaisnt mercs (shields) with the occasional barrier (ex. eclipse vanguard), so i get the most out of his abilities, as when facing collectors his overload would be wasted.