52 Antworten in diesem Thema

[mjharper]

Baldrick: My favourite is the Shadow. What a man. They say he's half way to being the new Robin Hood.

Blackadder: Why only half way?

Baldrick: Well, he steals from the rich, but he hasn't got round to giving it to the poor.
__________


Introduction

Archers in DA2 have a problem. And his name in Varric. Along with all that chest hair, he not only has access to the same archery talents as Hawke, but also his own Marksman tree, which blows the basic archery talents out of the water in every conceivable way. Seriously, Varric's archery talents make Hawke look like the country bumpkin she's desperately trying to prove she isn't.

Then along comes Sebastian, and even he has an additional archery tree. Which is also better than Hawke's. It may not compare with Varric's, but at least in Righteous Chain he has the archery equivalent of dual-wield's Unforgiving Chain, allowing multiple basic attacks to increase the chance of a critical hit. 

It just isn't fair.

Similarly, the Shadow specialisation also has a problem. No matter how hard it tries, it's never going to compete with Duelist for dual-wield (DW) rogues. Not even close. And that's because Vendetta is probably the sexiest talent in the game. Who doesn't want to disappear in smoke, reappear on the other side of the battlefield, and one-shot assassins? It's as close to 'click a button and something awesome happens' as this game gets.

Coupled with the fact that the Assassin specialisation is more-or-less required for every rogue build, it's hard for Shadow to get a look in.

This build hopes to go some way towards rectifying these problems. 


Disclaimers / Acknowledgements

This build is being been tested on Nightmare. It's my first time through on NM, having completed Hard with all three classes. I don't have wicked skills, so if I can make it, most people should be able to ;-) This also means the build isn't yet finished; I'll be testing as I go, and will include things like companions, tactics and gear later.

In preparing the build, I have extensively read AreleX's excellent guide to DW rogues (http://social.biowar...ndex/6890353/1), and IN1's awesome guide to soloing Nightmare with an Archer (http://social.biowar...index/6653090/1). Indeed, these guides formed the inspiration for me to try writing my own, which is coincidetally my first.

A detailed discussion of tactics for Anders has been written by Waltzingbear (http://social.biowar...5/index/6850878), and a great guide to advanced tactics by SuicidalBaby (http://social.biowar...5/index/6985076).

The only 'cheat' I used throughout was using Vaddin to get hold of free Maker's Sigh potions. I did buy about three in Act III, and any cash estimations include these purchases. Also, I was careful to avoid picking up 'free skills' when using the potions with the 1.01 patch, editing the savegame file when necessary. 

Constructive criticism is extremely welcome :-) 


Fundamentals

First of all, no points whatsoever will be put into the Archery tree. It isn't impressive enough to be worth it: Pinning Shot doesn't (reliably) pin, Bursting Arrow causes Area of Effect (AoE) damage (and thus Friendly Fire), and Rain of Arrows is surely one of the quickest ways to kill your entire party on Nightmare. I'll be honest, I haven't even tried Archer's Lance, because the rest of the tree is so unimpressive that the point investment is hardly worth it. Again, compare this with Marksman: Kickback and Rhyming Triplet are awesome, Bianca's Song is a fine sustainable, and Well-Oiled adds attack speed. Really, I could weep.

Instead, the build will focus on critical chance and damage for basic (auto) attacks, and on the synergy between Subterfuge, Shadow, and Sabotage. Assassin will ultimately add some incredible spike damage in the form of Assassinate, but this build is more about setting up regular high damage than firing off talents.

Another reason for abandoning Archery talents is that the rogue may also use dual weapons, as circumstances dictate. This is still an archery build; but the flexibility to switch from ranged to melee combat, and still take full advantage of the invested talents, is not insignificant.

One more thing before the gory details: I do not advise putting any points into the '100% critical' passive talents such as Twist the Knife (against stunned opponents) or Ambush (from stealth). They are all highly situational, and will be even less useful when you acquire Pinpoint Strikes. For example, having to enter stealth in order to guarantee a single critical hit is highly inefficient, and prevents for you from having the talent in reserve to get out of harm's way. And in any case, in the late game you should be aiming for 100% critical chance from Dex, gear, and talents like Precision.


Version 2.0

The original version of this build focused almost exclusively on Subterfuge, Shadow and Assassin. The first two of these have a particularly tight synergy: Subterfuge offers Stealth, an obscure effect through Chameleon's Breath, and then the ability to perform two actions when both stealthed and obscured through Lingering Shroud. Shadow adds disorientating criticals when obscured, allowing cross-class combos (CCCs) to be set up, with Shadow Veil automatically stealthing and obscuring you at the same time, along with a second way to enter stealth through Decoy. Really, the two trees seem like basic and advanced versions of a single tree, and the first build took advantage of that.

Unfortunately, two of the key talents - Lingering Shroud and Shadow Veil - are currently bugged, which largely strips the trees of that wonderful synergy, and so the essential strengths of the build. Hopefully the next patch will fix this issue, but in order to make the Shadow build viable I have removed all trace of stealth for the moment, instead focussing on the also underestimated Sabotage tree. The ultimate talent of Sabotage - Fatiguing Fog - slows the movement and attack speed of enemies, disorientates them, and obscures allies at same time. As the build will illustrate, this plays very well indeed with the remaining talents of Shadow and Subterfuge.

Verison 2.1 includes a completed talent tree, going up to level 24, and begins including notes on gear in Act III.

So, without further ado, here is the build:


STATS

Boost Dexterity to 25 as fast as you can, so that you can purchase the Arlathan Replica Bow as soon as you hit Kirkwall. You won't find a better bow until Act II, so it's a prudent investment.

Then increase Cunning to the same level. Keep in mind that the best bow in the game (Absolution) requires 41 Dexterity; although the Champion's armour requires only 31 Cunning, you'll need 40 in order to open the highest level chests. So aim to keep Dexterity and Cunning level until you reach 41/40, bearing in mind that you'll need to have 35 Dex when you start Act II in order to be able to use The Heaven's Answer.

Basic progression:

- Boost Dex to 25.
- Boost Cun to 25
- Raise both to 30 (Cun 30 for Complex chests)
- Boost Dex to 35
- Boost Cun to 40 (for Master chests, which first show up in Act II)
- Boost Dex to 41
- Boost Dex?


TALENTS

Graphical version at biowarefans.

You should remember that there are three bonus talents available over the course of the game. Hubert (Act I only) and Master Ilen (Act II only) have Tomes of Technique available for 21.93.25, while the Elixir of Physical Technique can be bought from the Black Emporium for 27.6.87 at any time. 

Prologue / Act I: The basics, Sabotage, and Shadow

• 1) Miasmic Flask
• 2) Evade
• 3) Precision
• 4) Chameleon's Breath
• 5) Armistice
• 6) Rush
• 7) Pinpoint Precision
• 8) Inconspicuous
• 9) Disorientating Criticals
• == Blitz (Tome)
• 10) Decoy
• 11) Fatiguing Fog
• ==  Blindside (Elixir)
• 12) Impenetrable Fog
• 13) Overpowering Fog

Miasmic Flask (Sabotage) can be a pain on Nightmare, as it will stun both you and you companions. It may briefly useful for incapacitating ranged enemies, but should be used with care. Nevertheless, Miasmic Flask is required to unlock Fatiguing Fog, so it isn't a complete waste.

Evade (Subterfuge) is a basic talent which will allow you to get out of harm's way quickly. It isn't as useful for an archer as for a DW rogue, as the archery animation is on the long side and you won't be able to use Evade until it finishes. It also isn't really worth upgrading, because although the stun effect sounds useful, it only affects enemies attacking you from behind. Evade is also required for Chameleon's Breath.

Precision (Specialist) is a good investment early in the game, as it will increase you attack rating and critical chance, and hence your damage output. Indeed, without the Parry talent from Duelist, it may prove valuable throughout the game, especially for those with a Cunning-heavy build, and its upgrades are relatively easy to unlock. Later on, Speed may be the preferred talent; however, the upgrades for Speed require heavy investment in the Specialist tree, so you would have to acquire Precision in any case. 

Chameleon's Breath (Subterfuge) will obscure any party member within its radius, making them far harder to hit. As such, it's useful for protecting anyone going up against a tough foe. It can also help against assassins, if you can anticipate who they are likely to strike when they come out of stealth. Any talent which can prevent Aveline being taken out is a worthy investment, especially in the early game when her own talents are less than stellar. Later on, Disorientating Criticals from the Shadow tree will enhance this already useful talent.

Armistice (Scoundrel) allows you to draw attention away from a companion who is under attack, and so is a great defensive talent. It doesn't work on you, however; you'll need Inconspicuous for that. Though somewhat situational, I feel it's a useful talent for any rogue to have, and now that Patch 1.02 solved it's targeting issues for console players, it's back in the build.

Rush (Sabotage), along with Miasmic Flask, is required to unlock Fatiguing Fog in the Sabotage tree. It allows you to roll into a group of foes, knocking them down. Though somewhat situational, I've found this to be a fairly useful talent for those moments when you find yourself surrounded, or when a second wave suddenly appears just behind you. Rushing into enemies, then dropping a Decoy into the middle of them while they are getting to their feet, is a great way to control threat, allowing you or a squishy companion time to get out of the way. 

Pinpoint Precision (Shadow) should be picked up the moment you can unlock the specialisation at level 7. This passively increases your critical damage by 25%, which is quite significant at early levels. It's also required to unlock the rest of the tree.

Inconspicuous (Shadow) negates your current threat and threat generation. Probably less useful than Decoy, which it unlocks, it will nevertheless help when that talent is on cooldown.

Disorientating Criticals (Shadow) increases your critical damage when obscured (via, for example, Chameleon's Breath), and any critical hit which you execute while obscured will disorientate the target, allowing you to set up a cross-class combo which your teammates can complete. Even at this stage in the game, that can produce a significant amount of damage, allowing you to take down assassins and lieutenants quickly. But more on that in the Companions / Strategy section.

Blitz (Sabotage) upgrades Rush so that it has a higher chance of knocking enemies down, and does damage. It's by no means a great talent for our purposes; but in order to unlock Fatiguing Fog, you'll either need to upgrade Rush or Miamic Flask, or take Confusion. The latter looks tempting, since its upgrade will disorient enemies; but it will also disorient your teammates, and then they'll go down quickly. In the end, Blitz is the best of the bunch.

Decoy (Shadow) is perhaps a little situational, creating a doppelgänger of yourself with which to distract an attacker; but it also automatically stealths you when activated, allows you to escape in peace. It seems to attract nearby enemies who were not actually attacking you, and it should come in handy against the Arishok, if you attempt to solo him.

Fatiguing Fog (Sabotage) could have been available at level 7, but it isn't really worth picking up until now. Or rather, the talent doesn't really come into its own until upgraded; the next couple of talent choices will do just that. At the moment, Fatiguing Fog reduces enemy movement and attack speed by 50%, and so is a good talent to throw at mobs surrounding Aveline.

Blindside (Scoundrel) passively enhances your damage against any foe who is attacking someone else; manage threat effectively, and this should be kicking in most of the time. Needless to say, it has great synergy with talents like Decoy which distract the attention of your foes. Take it as soon as you can afford to buy the Elixir from the Black Emporium.

Impenetrable Fog (Sabotage) makes the fog linger on the ground and obscures any party member who moves through it. Again, this makes it idea for throwing at Aveline, although if you throw it at yourself it will allow you to perform disorientating criticals.

Overpowering Fog (Sabotage). This is a beast. Not only does the fog slow enemies and obscure team-members, it also disorientates enemies. Targeting this at yourself would be such a waste when you have Chameleon's Breath; Aveline, on the other hand, can take advantage of the disorientation with either upgraded Scatter or Assault. Not that the talent is better than Chameleon's Breath (well, okay, it is...) but they complement each other well as you'll be setting up Aveline to take advantage of your own disorientating criticals. If you need to obscure yourself, use Chameleon's Breath; if you need Aveline to decimate a mob, use Overpowering Fog. Simple, really.


Act II and beyond: Assassin, and Specialist

• 14) Mark of Death
• == Bloodlust (Tome)
• 15) Pinpoint Strikes
• 16) Assassinate
• 17) Devious Harm
• 18) Mark of Doom
• 19) Enduring Mark
• 20) Overkill
• 21) Annihilate
• 22) Speed
• 23) Power
• 24) Harmony

Mark of Death (Assassin), which you should take when you unlock the Assassin specialisation at level 14, reduces enemy damage resistance and can be exploited by all party members. Absolutely essential, as are the upgrades Enduring Mark and Mark of Doom.

Bloodlust (Assassin) regenerates your stamina every time you kill an enemy. Great against mobs, virtually useless against bosses. Arguably, for a rogue who only uses basic attacks, the Follow-Through passive from Scoundrel is better, since it increases stamina with every hit; however, it requires a certain investment in the tree to unlock, and it will be redundant for most fights as you have to pick up Bloodlust in any case on your way through the Assassin tree.

Pinpoint Strikes (Assassin) will still be useful when you pick it up, as it offers 100% criticals from all attacks for 10 seconds. Although that isn't a huge amount of time, it's certainly better than the various '100% critical' passive talents mentioned above. If you need it, the upgrade doubles the duration; but again, since you're aiming for maximizing your critical chance in any case, it isn't really worth doing so.

Assassinate (Assassin) is your one and only spike damage talent, so use it well. Though the damage multiplier isn't as high for archers as for dual wielders, your base damage is higher so it will even out. The upgrades are essential too: Annihilate reduces cooldown and adds 400% damage against brittle targets, giving you an opportunity to complete a cross-class combo. And Overkill increase the damage multiplier even further.

Devious Harm (Assassin) adds 1% critical damage for each point of Cunning, so it's a no-brainer. Cracking stuff.

After picking up Devious Harm you should being upgrading Mark of Death and Assassinate, though the exact order taken here will depend on whether you plan to solo the Arishok. If you do, the Overkill upgrade for Assassinate may be more useful than Annihilate, as you obviously won't be able to CCC him. And it may be better to upgrade Mark of Death first in any case, so that your basic attacks do as much damage as possible for as long as possible. That said, in my NM playthrough I only used Decoy, Summon Mabari, and occassionally Inconspicuous when fighting the Arishok. He hit me twice  

Finishing touches

At this point the build is pretty much finished, and, if you've been using tomes for bonus skills, you should only be at level 21. That should give you about 5 more talent points by the end of the game. Where you put them is entirely up to you: upgrading Decoy, Inconspicuous and Chameleon's Breath, and picking up Subtlety along the way, might not be a bad way to go, for example.

My suggestion, however, is this: pick up Harmony, the ultimate talent from the Specialist tree. You've been using Precision throughout the game, and Harmony will make it better, adding +5 Attack speed, and a (negligible) chance to stun. But on the way to Harmony, you'll pick up Speed, which will give you a +10 bonus to Attack speed and can be used instead of Precision. With the Harmony bonus, however, Speed gains an additional +10 to attack, and +5 to critical chance, making the sustainable all that more useful.

I'm not actually going to recommend upgrading Precision or Speed directly. Precision has lower requirements than Speed, but Harmony enhances the sustainables better than any of the upgrades, without having to waste points by committing to any one of them. And Energizing Speeed, which reduces cooldown to 90% on all talents (half as good as Ander's Swift Justice), requires an enormous 5 point investment in the Specialist tree.

As far as the choice between Precision and Speed goes, I appreciate that it is relatively easy to boost attack rating and critical chance, and harder to boost attack speed. However, earlier in the game I think Precision is unquestionably better, as making you hits count is more important than firing off fractionally more shots. And it is 'fractionally more': even fully upgraded, Speed only boosts your attack speed by 15%. In contrast, Berserker's Barrage (admittedly an activated talent rather than a sustainable) boosts attack speed by 50%. And inserting the Primeval Lyrium Rune into Absolution will increase your attack speed by 37%. Upgraded, Speed is a very expensive talent with poor return on investment. That said, and bearing in mind the bonuses from Harmony, it isn't a bad place to spend your remaining talent points to round off your archer.

Bearbeitet von mjharper, 30 April 2011 - 10:18 .

[mjharper]

Blackadder: You've been cutting out the cuttings about the elusive Shadow to put in your highwayman scrap book, haven't you?

Baldrick: Oh, I can't help it, Mr B! His life is so dark and shadowy and full of fear  and trepidation!

Blackadder: So's going to the toilet in the middle of the night but you don't keep a scrap book on it.
__________


COMPANIONS

Aveline. Aveline, Aveline, Aveline.

As an archer you'll need a tank, and Fenris does not have a single talent which can capitalise on disorienation. Aveline has two: Scatter and Assault. Upgraded, Assault has only a 15 second cooldown, which complements Fatiguing Fog's 20 seconds nicely. In fact, I've set her current tactics to use both on the Normal or higher rank enemies, rather than reserving them for elites.

Apart from filling out the Weapon and Shield tree, I'd recommend upgrading Bravery from the Warmonger tree, and making sure you pick up Indomitable from her Guardian tree at level 13.

If you feel like splashing out on her, Desdemona's Blade from the Black Emporium is a fine early game weapon, although Fadeshear and The Lion of Orlais shield are also great.

I'll prepare a more detailed build for Aveline, along with tactics, as I progress into Act II. Current suggestion: biowarefans (need to add Pummel).


Anders

Everybody's favourite mage (not). Get hold of Haste and upgrade it as soon as possible; then Panacea, Aid Allies and Regroup. Like it or not, he'll be your only healer in Act II, and unless you are possessed of wicked skills in Nightmare, he'll save your skin on numerous occassions. I tried fighting the Ancient Rock Wraith using Bethany instead, and couldn't get past its second stage; went back to Kirkwall, switched her for Anders, and defeated it on first attempt. Now if only someone would release a Shut Anders Up mod, we'd all be happy.

At the moment I'm following Waltzingbear's Efficient Anders build.

Merrill

My favourite character in DA2, and thankfully she has a place in the team. You need Brittle to use Assassinate to full effect; however, you won't get that until fairly late in the game, allowing you a bit of freedom in how you set her up. I'm going with Primal and Dalish Pariah for the most part. As before, more information will be added as I progess in my test playthrough. Current setup (swap Hex of Torment for Elemental Weapons).

A note on the Fade

For better or for worse, your trip into the Fade in DA2 (Night Terrors, Act II) is short and relatively straighforward in comparison with Dragon Age: Origins. In fact, the only thing you really need to be concerned about is which companions you take with you, as at least one, and possibly all of them, will abandon you there, making some of the fights that much more complicated. So here are some tips:

• If you want to keep hold of Aveline (and given her role in this build, you should), you will need to take Isabela along with you.
• Anders will object (violently) to bargaining with Torpor, so it's better to leave him behind if you plan to do so.
• Contrary to what the official Piggyback guide says, you cannot take Sebastian along with you.
• Either Merrill, Fenris, or Varric (in that order) will succum to the Pride demon's offer.
• It may be better to complete the Desire part of the Fade quest last, so that you have Isabela along for the Pride part. That said, in my playthrough she managed to jump straight into Aveline's CCC Assault and, needless to say, died instantly. So maybe it doesn't matter much.

In other words, if you take the usual team of Aveline, Anders and Merrill, and accept Torpor's offer, you'll end up having to fight the last battle on your own. If you swap Isabela for Merrill, reject Torpor's offer, and complete the Desire part last, you'll fight the final battle with two companions on your side.

Bearbeitet von mjharper, 17 April 2011 - 09:43 .

[mjharper]

Shadow: Now, get away from the cart, Mr Slimey, or I'll fill you so full of lead we could sharpen your head and call you a pencil!

Blackadder: This is turning into a really rotten evening.

Shadow: (Beginning to tie him up) Well you'd better make the most of it - it's your last. And it's a pity because it's normally against my principles to shoot dumb animals.

Blackadder: Except squirrels?

Shadow: Yes! B*st*rds! (She looks wildly about her) I hate them with their long tails and their stupid twitchy noses! (She fires randomly and hits some squirrels) I shall return at midnight to collect the loot - when I'll fill you so full of holes we could market you as a new English cheese. (She exits, laughing).

Blackadder: Oh, God, what a way to die. Shot by a transvestite on an unrealistic grassy knoll.
__________


GEAR

Rogue's Pack (DLC) - WIP

The Rogue's Pack DLC increases your choice for gear considerably, mainly because of the Hood's Message to the King bow, which should be available from the moment you enter Kirkwall and deals Fire damage. It also evolves; at level 23, it has the following stats:

123 Fire damage
2 runeslots
+12% critical chance
+31% critical damage
+74 damage vs. demons and undead

It doesn't deal as much Fire damage as Jackal's Longbow, but bear in mind that the critical chance and damage bonuses are twice those offered by Absolution, and that you can use the bow throughout the game.

Obviously, it makes a lot more sense to gather items which enhance Fire damage now. IN1 has made a great list of generic elemental gear vendors which should make your life much easier; and the pricey (110G) Ring of the Ferryman looks much more tempting with its +24% Fire damage. Whether you want to use a pure Fire build is up to you; I would recommend a mixed build whice focuses on critical chance and damage, and enhances Fire damage in any gaps which are left. I'll be attempting such a build on my next playthrough, and will update this guide accordingly. Until that time, however, I'll leave the pre-DLC gear recommendations untouched.

Act I

The only weapon you'll need is the Arlathan Replica Bow, which costs 7.66.75 from the Black Emporium. You won't find a better bow until Act II, so it's worth every penny; although, if you have access to the Adder of Antiva, that might be an alternative (I don't: Play.com 'lost' my order).

As for armour, the Last Descent set is probably the best in Act I, although you won't complete it until the Dragon in the Deep Roads. Before that, you can pick up the Stalker's Boar Hides from the Swindler in Lowtown for a decent chestpiece; and the Flint Company Cuirass in Sebastian's Duty quest. The Mask of the Imperium helm can also be acquired early during the Birthright quest.

Wandering around the Lowtown at night and killing all the thugs will eventually lead you to Ignacio Strand; along with the acceptable bow The Runt's Spiker, he drops the Lowtown Stompers and Bloody Butcher's Gloves, both of which are the best you can get hold of until the Last Descent set starts turning up.

Aside from that , the Enchanted Silverite Chain Belt (costing 5.93.50) is a worthwile purchase from Bonny Lem, and arguably the best belt until Act III. The Pewter Pendant of Wolves Howling at the Moon, found in a chest during the Magister's Orders quest, is a decent amulet. Good rings are few and far between; anything which increases attack or critical chance is worth picking up.

I'd advise that you collect and keep a second set of armour to deal with the Ancient Rock Wraith and the Profanes; what you're after is items with runeslots. Ser Isaac's Helm has one; the Boots of the Frozen Wastes have one; and the Alchemist's Protective Handguards have one. Ser Isaac's Cuirass has two slots, while the Ancient Leather Cuirass has only one, but has bulit-in lightning resistance in any case. Pump these full of runes of lightning resistance; do the same with Varric's armour slot and Aveline's shield, and it will help no end when you get to the Deep Roads.

The other essential purchases are the Tome of Technique from Hubert, the two backpacks (Robes by Jean Luc and the Apparel shop), the companion upgrades (from the Armor Merchant and the Apparel shop for Aveline and Varric respectively) and the rather pricy Elixir of Physical Technique from the Black Emporium. You might want to buy a couple of Maker's Sigh potions for Anders and Merrill; both you and Aveline start out with useful / necessary talents, so you don't need them.


Incidentally, you can make 7G before you enter Kirkwall in the following way:

• Speak to Athenril, then accept Cavril's bribe of 2G
• Speak to Meeran, kill Frederick (a tough fight) and loot his corpse for 5G.

An angry Athenril will ambush you at some point in Act I, giving you still more loot and XP. A win-win situation. Except for Athenril, for whom it isn't.

There's a couple of other early sources of income:

• When you visit your storage chest in Gamlen's home for the first time, you will also receive a further 5G.
• Completing the Birthright quest nets you 10G from the final chest.
• Completing the quest to release Flemeth will give you 8G.

If you're still worried about where to get the cash, check out this thread for advice on using Runes of Fortune:http://social.biowar...index/6741488/1.


Act II

As with Act I, the first thing you should do is avail yourself of a new bow. You have a choice of two: Sliver, from the Black Emporium, or The Heaven's Answer, from Bonny Lem's Wares. They both cost about 30G, and there isn't much to choose between them: Sliver does slightly less damage but is slightly faster; The Heaven's Answer increases critical damage by 15%, while Sliver doesn't increase it at all, but instead deals 10 Nature damage across 2 meters. The Heaven's answer also comes with a chance to stun, and both have a single rune slot. I opted for The Heaven's answer, partly because of the critical damage and chance to stun, and partly to avoid the friendly fire of Sliver's Nature damage. But it's really up to you.

As soon as you are able, enchant your bow with a Rune of Striking.

Master Ilen has a Tome of Technique available, and you should pick that up as soon as possible, along with the sundry armour upgrades for companions, recipies, and so on.

The best items for a rogue in Act II are the Stealth Boots from the Black Emporium, and the Etched Ring of the Twins from the Nexus Golem. Since it is highly unlikely you will be able to afford both, you should aim for the ring, as the boots will still be available in Act III. It should be mentioned that the Puzzle Ring of the Black Fox, available from Bonny Lem, offers the highest bonus to critical chance in the game (+9); nevertheless, the Etched Ring offers +4, a bonus to critical damage, and immunity to knockback. Those wishing to quickly maximise critical chance might wish to opt for the Puzzle Ring instead; yet despite its useless +2 Str, the Etched Ring remains the more rounded purchase.

Apart from the boots, which are unquestionably the best in the game for a rogue, the other armour choices are limited. You'll be stuck with Last Descent through most of the Act, gradually acquiring Enasalin's set as you go. Nothing else is really worthy of your attention.

The only companion you should even consider buying equipment for is Aveline. The Markam Heart Stopper from the Weapon Shop in the Gallows does high damage, has increased critical chance and damage, and costs about 8G. On the other hand, Fade's Fury, acquired during Sebastian's Repentence quest, does almost as much damage, also has increased critical chance, and offers two rune slots to boot. It's free. Need I say more?

Due to its evolving nature, Fadeshear will remain incredibly useful until the end of the game; by level 18, it does as much base damage as Fade's Fury, along with an awesome +30 to undead and demons.

Act III

As before, the first thing you should do when you start Act II is upgrade you bow; this time, you want Absolution from the Nexus Golem, costing 38G. It does 134 base damage (compared with Heaven's Answer's 107), and has and additional +27 Nature damage. Add a Rune of Striking to begin with; later in the Act you can replace it with the Primeval Lyrium Rune or a Rune of Devastation, for an upgrade speed or damage respectively.

I managed to finish Act II with about 45G, having bought the Etched Ring, all companion armour upgrades, and the final Tome of Technique. If you don't have enough cash to spare, there are other options in Act III. Jackal's Longbow does massive Fire damage, the only drawbacks being that it's useless against anything which has Fire immunity, and you have to kill the High Dragon to get it. Bassrath-Kata, the quest reward for The Lost Swords, does 123 base damage, with an additional +37 against humans; but you won't be getting hold of that until fairly late in the Act. Once you get hold of them, in fact, it's worth keeping them in your inventory and changing between them according to the type of foe you're facing. 

Unlike the other Acts, which largely prevent you from getting hold of the best gear until late in the Act, the Champion's armour set can be picked up fairly early in Act III, if you so choose. You'll receive the Gloves of the Champion at the very start of the Act; here is a suggested order of play to get hold of the rest.

• Visit the Nexus Golem and buy Absolution; pick up the design for the Rune of Valiance while you're at it (it's located in the ruins just up from the Nexus Golem's cavern)
• Craft a bunch of Fire Warding runes and stick them in every run-slot you can think of; perhaps buy a couple of Life Ward potions to help keep Anders alive a litte longer (at this point, he has no rune-slots in his armour - to get his final upgrade and a rune-slot, complete Best Served Cold first)
• Complete Mine Massacre by killing the High Dragon (Arms of the Champion, Jackal's Longbow, Dragon Blood)
• Craft and insert Rune of Valiance into armour (+7 to everything, only once per person). For Hawke, I'd advise putting the rune into the slot in the Gloves, as those in the Arms give higher returns on warding runes.
• Complete On the Loose (Boots of the Champion drop from Huon)
• either Complete Best Served Cold (Helm of the Champion drops from Grace)
• or Complete Varric's Haunted quest, confiscate the fragment, and collect Primeval Lyrium Rune from Sandal (Note: these two could be done the other way round)
• COMPLETELY IGNORE the letter which begins The Last Straw, and have fun with the rest of the Act.

If you still have Isabela with you (she abandoned me on this playthrough, *sniff*) don't forget to pick up the Ambrosia during her quest; you can use it to craft an Elixir of Heroism which gives you and all companions an extra level.

As far as other gear is concerned, you could probably save up enough to afford the Stealth Boots (99.51.72) or Four Fingered Eddie's Lucky Talisman (108.01.71, from Bonny Lem's Wares). Whether it is worth doing so, however, is questionable. Bear in mind that, for considerably fewer soverigns, you can purchase the Dull Brass Amulet (19.35.50) and the Ring of No Wishes (23.96.75) from the Black Emporium, as well as the Seven Deadly Cinch (24.84.00) from Magnus's Wares. And the first two of those alone offer immunity to flanking, critical hits, and stun. Combine that with immunity to knockback from the Etched Ring, the Champion's armour, and Primeval Lyrium Rune-enchanted Absolution? Welcome to God Mode.

Bearbeitet von mjharper, 30 April 2011 - 10:16 .

[Shep309]

Good luck with this. We need more archer rogue guides!

[Gnoster]

mjharper wrote...


----------
Baldrick: My favourite is the Shadow. What a man. They say he's half way to being the new Robin Hood.
Blackadder: Why only half way?
Baldrick: Well, he steals from the rich, but he hasn't got round to giving it to the poor.
----------

Two thumbs up for this quote alone  Looking forward to the guide as well (actually playing as a rogue archer atm.)

[Killjoy Cutter]

Will have to try this on my next archer run. Thanks.

[Ace Attorney]

I will recommend to consider giving alternatives to Goad/Armistice for us console players. They are currently bugged due to targeting issues.

[mjharper]

Thanks for the encouragement :-)

T3hAnubis wrote...

I will recommend to consider giving alternatives to Goad/Armistice for us console players. They are currently bugged due to targeting issues.

I kind of already did, at the end of that first section, but I've added emphasis in light of what you said. Thanks!

[Jman5]

You may want to include a link to the talent builder so players can better visualize where you are going with your rogue. It also makes it easy for the TL;DR crowd.
http://biowarefans.c...talent-builder/

[lenkite]

Thanks for this build! It will help me on my rogue nightmare playthrough which I have just commenced.

I would like to ask about Shattering Arrow though. Assuming one is playing 3 ranged + aveline and give aveline elemental resistance, can you take advantage of the CCC (Winter's blast + shattering arrow) ? Or is it still too much friendly fire ?

[mjharper]

Jman5 wrote...

You may want to include a link to the talent builder so players can better visualize where you are going with your rogue. It also makes it easy for the TL;DR crowd.
http://biowarefans.c...talent-builder/

Added! Thanks for the tip :-)

spaceweaver wrote...

Thanks for this build! It will help me on my rogue nightmare playthrough which I have just commenced.

I would like to ask about Shattering Arrow though. Assuming one is playing 3 ranged + aveline and give aveline elemental resistance, can you take advantage of the CCC (Winter's blast + shattering arrow) ? Or is it still too much friendly fire ?

This build doesn't use that talent, so I'm not in a position to comment, I'm afraid. Perhaps someone else can offer advice?

[mokponobi]

I am currently playing an archer duelist/assassin. I considered many of the things you've incorporation into your build, in the end I went with this.

http://biowarefans.c...IxpYmtelBFDEsHT

I am currently level 10 playing on Nightmare, my defense with equipment is so high, especially against folks I've 'thrown the gauntlet" at +60% defense, normal/lieutenant enemies miss me a lot, assassin backstabs seem to miss a lot as well.

I call it a battle archer which is a different play than an assassin or shadow.

Bearbeitet von mokponobi, 07 April 2011 - 08:14 .

[Sabotin]

Just keep in mind that at least untill the patch, lingering shround and shadow veil don't work/work badly. I played a tw assasin/shadow, but didn't learn any stealth/agro managment. Waiting for that patch before I try again same classes but different setup .

[Stuffy38]

If you are still short on cash for the Arlathan Replica Bow, completing the quest to release Flemeth and recruit Merrill nets you an 8g reward. It might be worth considering if you use the Adder of Antiva as a stopgap.

[Liliandra Nadiar]

Birthright also grants 10g in the final chest with the Will

[mjharper]

Okay, so I'm trying to think of an alternative build which:

i) does not use Armistice (shame, it's so useful)
ii) does not anticipate getting Shadow Veil and Lingering Shroud, and so
iii) aims to upgrade Fatiguing Fog as soon as possible, to take advantage of the obscure and disorient effect.

The problem is, that reduces the number of useful talents from Shadow to four: Pinpoint Precision, Inconspicuous, Disorientating Criticals, and Decoy. It would also then make more sense to take Shadow first and Assassinate second.

PS: Thanks for the tips about money sources. I'll update soon.

Bearbeitet von mjharper, 11 April 2011 - 10:16 .

[mjharper]

Updated to Version 2.0:

- new, improved talent progression.

- some advice on companions.

- optimal Act I gear.

[Jyaan]

I'm playing an archer through NM now (breezed through Hard), and I came the same conclusion that you've got to play Shadow/Assassin. Also came the conclusion that you've got to go Shadow first simply for survivability. However, I've got a very different set-up from you. Yours is interesting, most notably the reliance on Fatiguing Fogue for crowd control.

I built mine to have the highest possible damage output with 100% critical chance. Also, I did invest a few points into the Archer tree. Bursting Arrow essentially functions as a Chameleon's Breath for me, except I throw it at enemies and then run through the smoke. Pinning Shot and Archer's Lance aren't as awesome-tastic as Assassinate, but are useful in a pinch, especially earlier in the game.

I'm writing my guide as I play, and I'll post it when I'm done.

[mjharper]

Jyaan wrote...

I'm playing an archer through NM now (breezed through Hard), and I came the same conclusion that you've got to play Shadow/Assassin. Also came the conclusion that you've got to go Shadow first simply for survivability. However, I've got a very different set-up from you. Yours is interesting, most notably the reliance on Fatiguing Fogue for crowd control.

I built mine to have the highest possible damage output with 100% critical chance. Also, I did invest a few points into the Archer tree. Bursting Arrow essentially functions as a Chameleon's Breath for me, except I throw it at enemies and then run through the smoke. Pinning Shot and Archer's Lance aren't as awesome-tastic as Assassinate, but are useful in a pinch, especially earlier in the game.

I'm writing my guide as I play, and I'll post it when I'm done.

Looking forward to your guide 

I'm really enjoying Faitiguing Fog, I have to say. I'm currently only at level 14 in my playthrough, and I've set up Aveline with both upgraded Scatter and Assault to take full advantage of the nearly permanent disorientation I can throw about the battlefield. Watching her decimate half a dozen enemies is cool; watching her do it again a few seconds later is just sick. 

[blue hoon]

I too have started my nightmare playthrough. I have done numerous ones on hard, but was hesitant on the FF aspect. I am very interested in the approach you have taken with shadow and sabotage (since I love the shadow tree), but am very hesitant on the whole approach. Not only would your build require some pretty heavy willpower to throw around so many talents (fatiguing fog, chamaelon's breath, decoy, assassinate, mark of death, speed sustain, etc.), but the time spent using those abilities lowers your dps drastically. Once again, im just hesitant, but I really want it to work because i really like the idea of the shadow tree (decoy is pretty awesome). Dps wise, assassin/duelist is the bread and butter. The higher attack will allow much more room to pump cunning while still keeping 100% attack late game. Also, a full speck into the Specialists tree at first seems like too many ability points, but it can be an alternative to the sabotage route, which consequently will take out the CCs from disorienting. Using the vanguard tree on Aveline will allow her to set up plenty of staggers (Merril and Anders can both capitalize on those), which I've found to be quite enough.
As far as self survival is concerned, kiting is your friend. With the pause ability, u can always move away (always), and I even play on console. So any talent points geared towards self survival, except for stealth for the enemy archers, almost feels like a waste.
Saying all that, I am making a go at your build because as I stated, I love the idea of the shadow tree. The added survival may prove quite handy even if it does lower overrall dps. Thanks for the guide!

[Irish Porkchopp]

Nice guide. I see you don't recommend confusion because of friendly fire. I found that one point in it can be fun on enemy archers at range. Avoid the FF because they are ranged, gives a little CC on pesky archer's, and they shoot at each other. Very entertaining!

[mjharper]

blue hoon wrote...

I too have started my nightmare playthrough. I have done numerous ones on hard, but was hesitant on the FF aspect.

Me too. This is my first playthrough on NM as well, and avoiding FF is essential to me; its why I tested and abandoned Confusion.

I am very interested in the approach you have taken with shadow and sabotage (since I love the shadow tree), but am very hesitant on the whole approach. Not only would your build require some pretty heavy willpower to throw around so many talents (fatiguing fog, chamaelon's breath, decoy, assassinate, mark of death, speed sustain, etc.),

Actually, I haven't put a single point into willpower. I long fights I do sometimes run out, but then I can pop a potion. Bloodlust alone helps no end in keeping your stamina up. That might not be everybody's playstyle, but so far it hasn't been an issue for me. Maybe it will become a problem later in the game? If so, I'll take account of that in the build.

but the time spent using those abilities lowers your dps drastically.  

That's true enough, although the same could be said for any build which doesn't just boost passives (or just activated attacks only). So far in my playthrough the build does enough damage to not need to constantly spam talents. I do tend to throw out Fatiguing Fog whenever it's reasonable to do so, simply because it's so aweome, and because Aveline just rips through crowds of disorientated ememies. That might not be my DPS, but I am still contributing to a vast increase in hers.

Everything else, so far, is situational: I only activate chameleon's breath, for example, when I need to make sure a critical hit will disorientate - in other words, when I'm setting up an elite for a CCC. Decoy is great if anyone except Aveline is getting swarmed, or I'm being targetting by an elite. At pretty much any othe time it's a waste...

Once again, im just hesitant, but I really want it to work because i really like the idea of the shadow tree (decoy is pretty awesome). Dps wise, assassin/duelist is the bread and butter. The higher attack will allow much more room to pump cunning while still keeping 100% attack late game.

I advise taking Precision to begin with, and only switching to Speed late in the game if you're sure you can guarantee 100% attack and critical chance. For a build like this, ensuring high damage with every hit is ultimately more important than having weaker hits more often.

 Also, a full speck into the Specialists tree at first seems like too many ability points, but it can be an alternative to the sabotage route, which consequently will take out the CCs from disorienting.

Nooo... Fatiguing Fog is just to awesome! But you're right, if you're intent on maximizing Hawke's DPS, Specialist is agood way to go. I recommend it after you finish everything else, because I love the CCC possibilities of the build as it is.

Using the vanguard tree on Aveline will allow her to set up plenty of staggers (Merril and Anders can both capitalize on those), which I've found to be quite enough.

That's the plan :-) Weapon and Shield, the Vanguard, with Bravery and a few Guardian talents thrown into the mix. The best defence is a good offence, and all that.

As far as self survival is concerned, kiting is your friend. With the pause ability, u can always move away (always), and I even play on console. So any talent points geared towards self survival, except for stealth for the enemy archers, almost feels like a waste.

Oddly for a Shadow build, I haven't even taken Stealth. It would be sweet if Lingering Shroud and Shadow Veil weren't broken; but even then, I think I would agree with you that it's almost a waste. Between Decoy (which is currently my only way to enter Stealth) and Inconspicuous, which allows you to disappear in plain sight, Stealth and all its upgrades just seems like overkill.

Saying all that, I am making a go at your build because as I stated, I love the idea of the shadow tree. The added survival may prove quite handy even if it does lower overrall dps. Thanks for the guide!

Glad you liked it 

[mjharper]

Irish Porkchopp wrote...

Nice guide. I see you don't recommend confusion because of friendly fire. I found that one point in it can be fun on enemy archers at range. Avoid the FF because they are ranged, gives a little CC on pesky archer's, and they shoot at each other. Very entertaining!

That's a fair point, and you can easily take Confusion instead of Blitz if that's your preferred style. Some people want to avoid FF on princple; in any case, I generally think doing so helps NM noobs like myself 

[Ace Attorney]

I was thinking of the possibility of going with Goad / Armistice for Treat management instead of Shadow and going Duelist for the Stagger CCC. Goad and Armistice have been fixed in the patch for us console gamers.

[mjharper]

T3hAnubis wrote...

I was thinking of the possibility of going with Goad / Armistice for Treat management instead of Shadow and going Duelist for the Stagger CCC. Goad and Armistice have been fixed in the patch for us console gamers.

That's great news. I'll add Armistice back into the build in that case. Thanks!

I'd be curious to know how Duelist plays out for an archer; maybe I'll have a look into it myself as an alternative when I finish this build...