23 réponses à ce sujet

[sangy]

I'm sure with all the posts it's been said.  I just feel like I have to post it anyways.

I was really impressed with Dragon Age Origins.  The whole idea of a group of individuals who fight a force of evil to keep life from being extinct.  Such a heavy burden with little reward except for some who really acknowledge the sacrafice of the honorable few, the Grey Wardens.

The archdemon and it's army of darkspawn.  Not a far stretch from the LOTR storyline, but different and in a good way.  Dragons in general are just awesome in so many ways.  What better foe can there be?

Dragon Age Origins storyline in general was the best.  The plot was rich.  The alliances involved were many and interesting.  The choices with races and their backgrounds were so different with so much behind each one.

Your companions were very unique.  Some characters that weren't your companions were also very interesting and rememberable.  I see so many fans of each the companions and characters like Duncan (he's just awesome).  I personally loved Morrigan and Oghren.  I liked so many.

All in all, it all came down to the Grey Wardens in the storyline.  Even the ceremony of becomming a Grey Warden was a big deal to me.  I think it was for the creaters too in DAO.  I was a little disappointed that it was not such a big deal in Awakenings.

I witnessed one small cutscene with Grey Wardens in DA2..  Aside from the cameos with previous DA Warden companions. 

DA2 was decent.  The graphics were better.  The fighting dynamics and animations are much better too.  The improvements to the classes I liked a lot.  Archer actually is worth having a skill tree now.  Mage is so much fun now, my favorite.  Rogue is so acrobatic now, fun to watch.  Warrior is so much better with two-handed weapons.  I think the only way I used warrior in DAO was with duel weild.

DA2 having more character customize options was a plus, but at the cost of race choice maybe?  Being able to recustomize your character at any time was a great idea.

The amount of companion attitude and negativity is noticable.  Some of it is fun, some not so much.  And the drama...wow, talk about depressing.  Hawke is not blessed.  Father dead before story starts, brother or sister dies at the start.  Later on  brother or sister goes away or is taken away.   Then the mother...all the while people wanna kill you and you're trying to help people out, survive, and please companions....phew.

Not that the Grey Warden has it easy.  It just has a lot more meaning.  It doesn't have to be Dragon Age Origins 2.  I'm sure the Bioware team doesn't "need" our ideas of how to make Dragon Age.  Just feedback on what works and what doesn't.  At least, I think that's what they're interested in.

Obviously, my conclusion (for the most part) is to bring back the Grey Warden.

[Cutlass Jack]

Mmm no thank you. I've had enough Grey Wardening and fighting darkspawn to fill 6 lifetimes. (I see what I did there.)

I'm not disagreeing that there were some nice bits of Origins mind you. Just that the story feels played out to me.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 07 avril 2011 - 06:35 .

[PsychoBlonde]

What works for whom, though? I found the plot of Origins to be a tedious rehash. I disliked or was indifferent to most of the companions (Sten and Shale being the exceptions).

I very much enjoyed DA2. I liked more of the companions in DA2 (Fenris, Aveline, Varric, Isabella, even Anders and Merril had their good points. Sebastion was solid meh from my perspective.). I thought the story could have been tighter, but it's the first time Bioware's done a game that wasn't "save the world/galaxy/whatever"-oriented so a few stumbles out of the gate were nothing to worry about.

If you're going to talk about "what works", you need to work on giving a more objective assessment other than "I liked this, I didn't like that". Lots of people on the forum do this. The say, hey, notice how this thing you did in Act I didn't jive with what you did later? Notice how the in medias res plot drop in the beginning prevented you from developing a relationship with your family? Etc.

[BigEvil]

I'd rather not have my Grey Warden back as the protagonist, at least not for a while. I think Bioware sort of shot themselves in the foot with having the Grey Wardens being so prominent in Origins. People seem to think that the focus of the game series is the Grey Wardens when the devs/writers have said multiple times that it's about the world of Thedas, not any one group or character.

[Amagoi]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Mmm no thank you. I've had enough Grey Wardening and fighting darkspawn to fill 6 lifetimes. (I see what I did there.)

I'm not disagreeing that there were some nice bits of Origins mind you. Just that the story feels played out to me.

This is exactly how I feel. Thedas is too big and the Wardens objective is just to thin. It'd be like having a buffet and saying "No thank you, just keep the chicken strips coming." It's good, damn good, but there's a lot more out there that has the potential to be just as good or better.

Having a 6th Blight happen in record time would just feel weird to me anyway, and I don't think anyone wants to play a game where you just stand vigilant. Though a Deep Roads diving game has serious potential...

[Maria Caliban]

I am interested in seeing if BioWare can make a cohesive story with the various loose ends it's trailing through the Dragon Age series. If it can do so, I don't care if I can play Hawke, the Warden, or Spanky the Orlesean midget hooker.

[Cutlass Jack]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Spanky the Orlesean midget hooker.

Yes please.

[Avissel]

Focusing on just the Wardens would basically just turn them into the Jedi.Almost every Star Wars game is about the Jedi. I'm quite happy to see them branching out and exploring different groups and areas.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am interested with what might happen with the Wardens as an organization, specifically First Warden's ambitions, Avernus' research, their mysterious allies...etc.

But I for one do not want to play another Warden again. Nor do I wish to battle an "ultimate tide of darkness and evil". I'd rather be part of a conflict that is more mature and complex. Sadly, Bioware did not do that in DA2, vis a vis Mages vs Templars.

[sangy]

Yeah, I agree. This was probably more my personal opinion.

I did try to mention that I did enjoy a lot of DA2. I also thought it touched base with DAO. The whole of DA2 felt like a story off of a small branch of what initially was Dragon Age.

We all have different views that I think are valid. Grey Warden has a different meaning to me and all that follows.

As far as characters/companions go, everyone has their own reasons for liking or disliking them. I just felt (imo) DAO had much more to offer. You have to take into account Isabella, Anders and Merrill are from DAO and DAA. They look different but they're not DA2 new installments.

I admit, Varric is one cool cat. He's funny and pretty easy going, thankfully.

[Avissel]

sangy wrote...

We all have different views that I think are valid. Grey Warden has a different meaning to me and all that follows.

yay civil disscussion


Much as I like the Wardens, I just dont want them to get over exposed.

[hoorayforicecream]

While the wardens are certainly an intriguing part of Thedas, I really enjoy the idea of exploring more of Thedas as a whole. The darkspawn are a fine nemesis, but I'm not sure I want to be fighting darkspawn game after game as the big bad guys, when the rest of Thedas is so potentially interesting.

[PsychoBlonde]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I am interested in seeing if BioWare can make a cohesive story with the various loose ends it's trailing through the Dragon Age series. If it can do so, I don't care if I can play Hawke, the Warden, or Spanky the Orlesean midget hooker.

Yes indeed.  Tie up those loose ends.

I'd REALLY like them to announce how many MORE games they plan to make in the DAverse, because that would reassure me, at least, that all of this is GOING somewhere and isn't going to end up with some kind of "it was all a dream" or "actually, everyone is dead" ending because there's no other way to tie the plot off.

[Maverick827]

I actually never felt any connection to the Grey Wardens as an organization. I always felt that there should have been more of them at Ostagar by the time you got there so that you could see their ranking and hierarchies and perhaps even politics within.

Grey Wardens in Origins acted narratively much like Jedi in the original Star Wars series: the viewer didn't initially have a sense of the Jedi order itself. I think we're still there with Grey Wardens, and unfortunately with Blights being so rare, any more of a look into them would likely call for a rather trite plot.

[sangy]

True. You can't do the whole blight thing over and over. I guess it would be nice to see Grey Wardens in a new aspect of the game. I leave the creativity to the Bioware team.

I'm sure we could all think of ways to work it, but realistically it goes to the DA team to do their magic. I'm not disagreeing that it's good to go in new directions. I'm just simply pointing out that a lot of successful games do have a solid foundation on what a game series is about. They continue on that and it works.

I'm surprised that many feel like they're tired of the whole Grey Warden vs. archdemon/darkspawn after just one game. I think they can really work out a lot of scenarios that could make it new and interesting. The possibilities are endless. So far I seem to be alone on this one, haha.

Who knows, only time will tell where DA3 (if there is one, I'd like to think so) goes. My guess is the Hawke family won't even make a mention. Hawke = DA2 exclusivo!

[Cutlass Jack]

I'm actually expecting the Wardens to become the villains at some point. They keep hinting about the group at Weisswhatever Castle not exactly being the nicest. I could see their ambitions expanding in dangerous ways between blights.

[PantheraOnca]

In non-blight periods being a GW must be decidedly different. It would seem they would need to go on a recruitment/training/scouting type of routine, with the inevitable but unfortunate forays into politics that the recruitment no doubt entails.

I do feel that if the GW play a big part in any follow up game it will not be as the protagonists. Maybe as an ally group, maybe as an enemy group.

Unless we do hopefully massive timeskip to the next blight. I say hopefully massive because a blight so soon after one feels kind of cheesy. But maybe they could make it work.

[hoorayforicecream]

The wardens are kind of tough to deal with storywise outside of a blight. They go from being the big heroes to being the jerk paramilitary group who won't help with anything, and run around conscripting your best people.

[Punahedan]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

What works for whom, though? I found the plot of Origins to be a tedious rehash. I disliked or was indifferent to most of the companions (Sten and Shale being the exceptions).

I very much enjoyed DA2. I liked more of the companions in DA2 (Fenris, Aveline, Varric, Isabella, even Anders and Merril had their good points. Sebastion was solid meh from my perspective.). I thought the story could have been tighter, but it's the first time Bioware's done a game that wasn't "save the world/galaxy/whatever"-oriented so a few stumbles out of the gate were nothing to worry about.

If you're going to talk about "what works", you need to work on giving a more objective assessment other than "I liked this, I didn't like that". Lots of people on the forum do this. The say, hey, notice how this thing you did in Act I didn't jive with what you did later? Notice how the in medias res plot drop in the beginning prevented you from developing a relationship with your family? Etc.

Agreed with the bold, and to add on to the end, what I notice is that people say "I didn't like this" and then do not seem to mention why they didn't like it. For example, I can say that I hated the inventory, but that's because I don't like things being organized for me; it takes me much longer to find things when I haven't arranged it in my "inventory tetris" backpack. I also acknowledge this is an extremely subjective choice. I also think there's probably an objective way to please me and everyone else, too. I'm just not inventive enough to think of it.

Furthermore, DA2 is a different kind of story. It wouldn't suit a Grey Warden, nor would it suit the scaled-back "this is about the world" format of DAO. DAO had its purpose, and it's served it. DA2 is now zooming into a particular problem that isn't the Blight, but is instead a moral issue. It's a reminder that there's more to Thedas than Ferelden and the Blights.

In fact, Ferelden's kind of a backwater and stopping the Blight there means it might make a bit of news, but ultimately, no one else really cares that much. GWs are esteemed, but ultimately irrelevant outside of a Blight. Not to mention not very numerous.

BigEvil wrote...

I'd rather not have my Grey Warden back
as the protagonist, at least not for a while. I think Bioware sort of
shot themselves in the foot with having the Grey Wardens being so
prominent in Origins. People seem to think that the focus of the game
series is the Grey Wardens when the devs/writers have said multiple
times that it's about the world of Thedas, not any one group or
character.

Sort of agreed with this, too. But I don't thinkt hey shot themselves in the foot. I think Origins was a good way to introduce the setting and IP. However, BW has failed to remind people of certain facts and why organizations like the Grey Wardens aren't as prominent and why we're not Lala Starwind the Dragon Hunter/Tamer/Progenitor.

The truth is, it's named Dragon Age because Orlesians got nommed on by the first dragon anyone's seen in a long time and the Divine in Orlais was like, "SHEET, that's a sign, ain't it? Let's call the next era the Dragon Age." I'm sure the Codex mentions it, somewhere, but BW does need to remind us every so often. And in fact, the Grey Wardens are only really important in Ferelden and in the Anderfels. They are only relevant when Blights occur.

For me, Origins was too scaled back for me to feel as deep a connection as I felt with Hawke. The point of Hawke was - you can make your choices, but you can't save everyone; Hawke is a catalyst, not a hero in the same sense as the Warden. You can be at the wrong place at the right time and that's really what matters. I enjoyed Origins, but it was very broad.

I like the trend of starting with new characters in each major installment. In our own history, there are many important people even in one conflict.

/wall of text

[Danjaru]

Origins had a way superior story than DA2. It was kind of parallel to LOTR, gathering allies and fighting the great evil but with a twist of the Gray Wardens. It was awesome and gave me 5 playthroughs.

That said, I don't think another Gray Warden centered game would fit. They've done their part by defeating the blight. If we're going to fight Darkspawn I wish we do it in deep roads, and maybe fighting a small army before they actually become dangerous, but they shouldn't be the focus imo.

Of course Bioware could make it Darkspawn oriented again if they wanted, but the danger is that it'll become the same story as DA:O which would kind of suck.

But no matter what they do, Gray Wardens should be in the sequel in one way or another. I couldn't help but get a smile on my face every time I saw the Gray Wardens in DA2. It's a very interesting order and I would like to explore how they function outside Ferelden (a group of Gray Wardens that are not whiped out.)

Modifié par Danjaru, 07 avril 2011 - 08:52 .

[BigEvil]

Danjaru wrote...

Origins had a way superior story than DA2. It was kind of parallel to LOTR, gathering allies and fighting the great evil but with a twist of the Gray Wardens. It was awesome and gave me 5 playthroughs.

In your opinion perhaps. Personally I found DA2 to have the superior story, apart from a couple of wonky moments. I've read LOTR enough times, I've seen the story of the chosen one being called upon to battle an ultimate evil so many times, and played it in so many games. As good as Origins was I much preferred a more personal story about someone trying to make their way in the world.

I'd imagine there are a lot of gamers who have saved the world/galaxy/etc enough times in games that they're making the Justice League jealous. I'm much more interested in seeing where DA will go next with conflicts between different groups/organisations, or between nations. I want to see political intrigue and warfare over territory or differing beliefs rather than fighting against "evil". The gathering of allies during Origins was one of the most interesting aspects to me, and I'd like opportunities to do that sort of thing again, just not to fight darkspawn.

I'd find it rather dull if we have another Blight any time soon and have our Grey Warden end it in one game again. It seems to cheapen all of the previous Blights which took decades or longer to end. It also pushes our protagonist into demi-godhood and thus boring for me. Garahel and others seem like heroes to me because they couldn't end the Blight as easily as our Warden, yet they kept fighting and got the job done. Plus there are only two Old Gods left, it'd be a poor idea IMO to waste those Archdemons when they could be a threat looming over the horizon for a long time to come.

[AlexXIV]

I think Dragon Age should have stayed a Grey Warden story. They could have made Hawke an npc, and the story would have worked just as well. Grey Wardens have 'hero' all written over them since their life is one whole sacrifice. I don't like the idea of overpowered heroes sprouting out of the earth like mushrooms either. I mean even if Hawke failed alot, almost all the time, he/she did only so storywise. In combat nobody could stand against him/her. So I would prefer to either get back my Warden or Hawke in DA3 instead of having the next all powerful hero who also disappears mysteriously.

[Merced652]

Personally i too would prefer the franchise be more focused on the Grey Wardens but if awakening is any clue then the best they can do is contrived bull**** between blights. Actually looking at DA2 i'm pretty confident DAO was a happy accident.

[AlexXIV]

Merced652 wrote...

Personally i too would prefer the franchise be more focused on the Grey Wardens but if awakening is any clue then the best they can do is contrived bull**** between blights. Actually looking at DA2 i'm pretty confident DAO was a happy accident.

There is more to Grey Wardens than fighting and ending blights. For example they study darkspawn and the cause of the blights. I always thought my Warden should be The One.