996 réponses à ce sujet

[sleepyowlet]

Aradace wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

. An option to mute the protagonist would be ideal.

Now that I'd agree with so as to stymie all parties involved.  But again, you know just as well as I do that it wont happen.  We'll get an option like that around the same time they implement a decent face editor in ME lol.

Hope springs eternal.

[Kimaka]

mdugger12 wrote...

I just think they can do more with the Dialogue Wheel and the voiced protagonist. I mean for people that just rather have a mute character there should be an option to turn the voice off. That's a personal issue. There was a previous person that posted some good ideas on this thread. With improvements there is still alot more that can be accomplished with a voiced protagonist and the wheel can be tweaked instead of just scrapping it or leaving it as it is. Adding more tone choice to the wheel then just Nice/Silly/Mean would be the first issue. Make the dialogue choices even more important in shaping the character's personality. So by act 3 when you're in a conversation the tone and options are weighted more towards how your character behaved in the previous acts. Have some sort of wheel and tree hybrid that allows you to mix and match tone with your overall statement. Like having the option to sarcastically agree or disagree with someone's statement. Begrudgingly convey the affirmative. . Not just nice/happy tone for yes, Mean/angry tone for no.

I don't know, maybe it won't help. But I don't think it's always best to scrap advancements or make changes using available technology because of a few drawbacks. I just think they should work on improving on those changes to make the system something that can be great and can add to the experience. There are so many great things possible but sometimes you have to get people out of their comfort zone first so they can appreciate them.

Agreed with most of this. Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Now that I think more about it, the Wheel in this instance is an improvment over the Tree. If they implement more options in DA3, it would be neater than if we had a long list. They will be able to keep the current format of questions on the left and respones on the right and just add a [more] option for each tone presented so the player can have a greater variety of options within that tone.

Modifié par Kimaka, 08 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

When someone says "Get rid of the voiced protagonist" I heard echos of the sobs from when 3D models replaced sprites.

I still want importable 2D character portraits back.

And a grid inventory.  With individual weight limits.

[daymz]

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

[slimgrin]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

When someone says "Get rid of the voiced protagonist" I heard echos of the sobs from when 3D models replaced sprites.

I still want importable 2D character portraits back.

And a grid inventory.  With individual weight limits.

You ask for the world, Sylvius.

[Galad22]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I still want importable 2D character portraits back.

And a grid inventory.  With individual weight limits.

Ah grid inventory and weight limits...

Why are they away again? I miss those too.

[Comdawg]

I thought the dialogue wheel and voiced character were an improvement over Origins list format and nonvoiced character. In my opinion it would not be better for DA3 to go back to that.

[mdugger12]

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Galad22 wrote...

Ah grid inventory and weight limits...

Why are they away again? I miss those too.

They're willing to have different UI elements by platform to suit the various input devices each uses.  So we don't we get a grid inventory, when that's the best way to allow easy access with a mouse?

The individual weight limits I want because they help the setting make sense, but DA2's combat mechanics suggest that BioWare doesn't care at all about having the setting make sense, so I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mdugger12 wrote...

Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.

How does that matter?  That there were different options is the relevant point here.  How the NPCs react doesn't matter at all.  Each time you see an NPC reaction, you only have the one option you chose as context, so that the reaction would have been the same even if you'd chosen something else can only be meta-game knowledge, and thus not relevant to roleplaying.

[Siansonea]

mdugger12 wrote...

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.

Exactly. And furthermore, you already have multiple options for what you say in response to other characters. You have Diplomatic, Humorous, and Ruthless responses, and you have questions you can ask for more information. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DAO the same way? Yes, instead of it being a laundry list that takes a full half-minute to read, it's a bunch of abbreviated approximations, but it certainly speeds up the dialogue and gives it a more naturalistic feel. Heaven forbid that the game not feel completely abstract.

And if I hear one more person harping about how a voiced protagonist is "immersion breaking", I'm going to have an apoplexy. I guess movies are "immersion breaking" because you don't get to watch the main character stand motionless and silent while everyone reacts to what they didn't say after awkwardly long pauses.

[Kimaka]

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

In both games you had the three replies to whatever the NPC was saying and then questions when after they were all asked sent you back to the three replies. What I believe was restrictive in DA2 wasn't the amount of options but the tone of them. There were various ways to interpret how the MC says them in DA:O but not in 2. Agreeing was usually confined within the diplomatic/helpful options. Same with sarcastic being neutral and aggressive being disagreement.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

Ah grid inventory and weight limits...

Why are they away again? I miss those too.

They're willing to have different UI elements by platform to suit the various input devices each uses.  So we don't we get a grid inventory, when that's the best way to allow easy access with a mouse?

The individual weight limits I want because they help the setting make sense, but DA2's combat mechanics suggest that BioWare doesn't care at all about having the setting make sense, so I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

No no no.  All wrong.  They're gone because they were boring.  You guys can play Suitcase Packer XTREME-RPG.  ME2's inventory is the idea.

[AlanC9]

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

One of these days someone ought to actually try and quantify this, rather than everyone simply whipping out their conflicting gut impressions.

[sleepyowlet]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.

How does that matter?  That there were different options is the relevant point here.  How the NPCs react doesn't matter at all.  Each time you see an NPC reaction, you only have the one option you chose as context, so that the reaction would have been the same even if you'd chosen something else can only be meta-game knowledge, and thus not relevant to roleplaying.

This. I like having more lines to say, even if it doesn't really influence the outcome. That's not what the lines are about for me. For me they are about expressing the personality I gave my character.

I'll add a little example.

NPC: "Will you please rescue my cat from that tree?"

PC1: "Of course. I can't bear to listen to that scared mewing!"
PC2: "Sure. Rescuing ****** is all I'm about!"
PC3: "Oh fine, I'll do it, so stop whining at me."

NPC: "Oh thank you!"


See? No difference in the outcome, but each line helps me roleplay my character as I want. Now add more lines to the effect of "no" and "maybe later"

edit: the example

Modifié par sleepyowlet, 08 avril 2011 - 07:33 .

[dslatimore]

I disagree, having a voiced protagonist was much better than not having one!

[dslatimore]

I liked the dialogue wheel much better as well!

[Galad22]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

No no no.  All wrong.  They're gone because they were boring.  You guys can play Suitcase Packer XTREME-RPG.  ME2's inventory is the idea.

This is your own opinion.

Personally I think people like you are the reason games are more streamlined, boring and easier these days.

[Siansonea]

Kimaka wrote...

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.

Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.

In both games you had the three replies to whatever the NPC was saying and then questions when after they were all asked sent you back to the three replies. What I believe was restrictive in DA2 wasn't the amount of options but the tone of them. There were various ways to interpret how the MC says them in DA:O but not in 2. Agreeing was usually confined within the diplomatic/helpful options. Same with sarcastic being neutral and aggressive being disagreement.

::facepalm:: Do you think the game distinguished the "tone" of the responses any differently in either game? Maybe the voice actor didn't read the line the way you would have, but then again, you're probably not a professional voice actor either. I'm pretty satisfied with the "tone" for the most part. 

[the_one_54321]

Galad22 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
I still want importable 2D character portraits back.
And a grid inventory.  With individual weight limits.

Ah grid inventory and weight limits...
Why are they away again? I miss those too.

Seriously, that was something that had room for little improvements but was absolutely not broken and didn't need to be fixed or replaced.

As for voice vs silent, each has it's strengths and weaknesses. It depends on what you are looking for in the game. I think that for the sake of diversity and preventing stagnation in RPGs, BioWare should stick to silent protagonists as they are currently the only ones that really do it in this kind of setting.

[Phantom13NWN2]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

marinerzz wrote...

If you want to fix your reputation after the complete debacle of DA2!

I want to know exactly what I'm telling my character to say, not just a summary (which gives the wrong impression often).

I don't want my PC to have a voice because it will never sound exactly how my character does in my mind and makes the character less my own.

All the non-interactive cinematics destroy immersion because I'm no longer controlling my character.

Fix these problems, i.e. make DA3 like DA:O but without a dumb romance character who only likes you if you're cartoonishly evil like Morrigan was, and you can start making good games again. Don't fix these problems and you will fail sooner rather than later!

This. I whole heartedly agree with this, the moment you lose control of your character roleplaying dissapears.

This is true. However there is a new generation of CRPGs players who define roleplaying simply as being able to make a choice. That makes them a lot easier to please.

Just curious of what you define as the whole new generation, because I am 20 years old, played my first rpg at 13, and I am one of those people who doesnt want anything implemented into an RPG (DA no less) that takes away the roleplaying experience. I play all genres of games from sports to fps to rpg, but rpgs are by far my favourite genre, and I think an RPG should remain an RPG and nothing else.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Mike on the wheel:

"It also provides what I see as the prize behind every door insofar aswhen you read a line of Origins dialogue for comparison, you see everything you could potentially say. In your brain, you've done the totality of that conversation. Whereas looking and saying, "Oh, I know that's going to be a smart-aleck line, but I don't feel it'd be right to use it," you're left with that temptation or that urge to pick it because you can't tell exactly what you'll say."

How the hell can someone say something like that with pride and dignity?

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 08 avril 2011 - 07:38 .

[Siansonea]

Galad22 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

No no no.  All wrong.  They're gone because they were boring.  You guys can play Suitcase Packer XTREME-RPG.  ME2's inventory is the idea.

This is your own opinion.

Personally I think people like you are the reason games are more streamlined, boring and easier these days.

Yay streamlined, boring and easy!! If the alternative is overly complex and ridiculously abundant inventory management standing in for character depth and complexity of story. I grow weary of Item Acquisition: The Role Playing Game. But maybe I'm just not a dedicated enough hardcore RPG fan devoted to the established norms of the genre. I'm actually okay with that.

[Lestatman]

I want to get back to being able to select different races for the main character and if than means getting rid of the voice acting then so be it.

[mdugger12]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.

How does that matter?  That there were different options is the relevant point here.  How the NPCs react doesn't matter at all.  Each time you see an NPC reaction, you only have the one option you chose as context, so that the reaction would have been the same even if you'd chosen something else can only be meta-game knowledge, and thus not relevant to roleplaying.

So actual options don't matter, just the perception? I don't mean any disrespect that's a bit glib isn't it? So 30 "choices" that directly lead to the same outcome is acceptable? I doubt you truly believe that.