996 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

I'd be able to put up with the wheel and the voiced protagonist, if I could see exactly what Hawke is going to say, not some halfass short and paraphrased hint at what Hawke might say.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lestatman wrote...

I want to get back to being able to select different races for the main character and if than means getting rid of the voice acting then so be it.

Exactly. 

[ItsToofy]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

Ah grid inventory and weight limits...

Why are they away again? I miss those too.

They're willing to have different UI elements by platform to suit the various input devices each uses.  So we don't we get a grid inventory, when that's the best way to allow easy access with a mouse?

The individual weight limits I want because they help the setting make sense, but DA2's combat mechanics suggest that BioWare doesn't care at all about having the setting make sense, so I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

No no no.  All wrong.  They're gone because they were boring.  You guys can play Suitcase Packer XTREME-RPG.  ME2's inventory is the idea.

ME2 didn't even HAVE an inventory...it was pretty much the CoD style of choose your loadout.

[Murtallica]

I actually like the new PC being voice acted. As for choosing races, I believe that the same voice could probably be used for any race. They all sound Similar enough.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That doesn't make any sense at all.  DAO's lines weren't voiced, so the game never gave you any information about how they were delivered.  As such, you could choose to have them delivered however you wanted.

Exactly.  In DA:O, the *player* chose how the Warden sounded.

DA2 takes that out of the imagination and puts it on a spoon.

To be fed.  To the player. 

[Siansonea]

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

marinerzz wrote...

If you want to fix your reputation after the complete debacle of DA2!

I want to know exactly what I'm telling my character to say, not just a summary (which gives the wrong impression often).

I don't want my PC to have a voice because it will never sound exactly how my character does in my mind and makes the character less my own.

All the non-interactive cinematics destroy immersion because I'm no longer controlling my character.

Fix these problems, i.e. make DA3 like DA:O but without a dumb romance character who only likes you if you're cartoonishly evil like Morrigan was, and you can start making good games again. Don't fix these problems and you will fail sooner rather than later!

This. I whole heartedly agree with this, the moment you lose control of your character roleplaying dissapears.

This is true. However there is a new generation of CRPGs players who define roleplaying simply as being able to make a choice. That makes them a lot easier to please.

Just curious of what you define as the whole new generation, because I am 20 years old, played my first rpg at 13, and I am one of those people who doesnt want anything implemented into an RPG (DA no less) that takes away the roleplaying experience. I play all genres of games from sports to fps to rpg, but rpgs are by far my favourite genre, and I think an RPG should remain an RPG and nothing else.

What does that even mean?

Ironically, I think that I am part of the "whole new generation" of players that is being disparaged here. I'm a 42-year-old woman, and I have NOT been playing computer or console games for decades. I didn't become attracted to games until Mass Effect came along, and the voiced protagonist was a huge part of it. So if I'm the one who spoiled the RPG genre for you kids, then Yay Me!

[Siansonea]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That doesn't make any sense at all.  DAO's lines weren't voiced, so the game never gave you any information about how they were delivered.  As such, you could choose to have them delivered however you wanted.

Exactly.  In DA:O, the *player* chose how the Warden sounded.

DA2 takes that out of the imagination and puts it on a spoon.

To be fed.  To the player. 

Well, all I have to say to that is...omnomnomnomnom. More please!

[Kimaka]

Siansonea II wrote...
::facepalm:: Do you think the game distinguished the "tone" of the responses any differently in either game? Maybe the voice actor didn't read the line the way you would have, but then again, you're probably not a professional voice actor either. I'm pretty satisfied with the "tone" for the most part. 

Actually, yes. A simple "No" can be said a number of ways. With a voice actor and the icons, the way it's said is determined how the voice actor says it. But I'm not overly concerned with the voice acting in the game. Although I do prefer mute protagonists in RPGs, some people do not. Seeing that Bioware is likely to continue with voiced main characters there isn't much I can do about that outside of muting whenever the main character talks. I just would like more options when interacting with NPCs.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mdugger12 wrote...

So actual options don't matter, just the perception? I don't mean any disrespect that's a bit glib isn't it? So 30 "choices" that directly lead to the same outcome is acceptable? I doubt you truly believe that.

Not at all.  You're just measuring the wrong outcome.

The outcome that matters is what my character says.  So if there are thirty different options for what to say, then there are 30 different outcomes.  My analysis of the mechanic ends there, because the subsequent event - the world's reaction to what my character said - is beyond my control (and rightly so).

If I'm talking to someone, and he's already decided to say the same thing regardless of what I say first, does that mean I have no choice in what to say?  Of course not.  I still have the ability to say whatever I'd like.  It will make no difference what I say, but I don't know that when I'm choosing.

And the only way you can know that when you're choosing in the game is to appeal to meta-game knowledge.

[Killjoy Cutter]

DA2 could have carved the fat off of DA:O's inventory system without cutting into the meat.

DA:O's main problem was the silly tiered materials / strengths system creating 8 extra versions of every mundane item, 6 versions of every rune, 5 versions of every potion... and so on. One of the genius moments of DA2 is the runes with strength of effect based on the item's "power".

[keginkc]

The voiced protagonist made the experience seem much more immersive to me, and I didn't have much of an issue with the same exact dialogue options being presented in a wheel instead of a text menu. In fact, I tend to think the less text I have to scroll through, the better. But what would I know, I've only been playing these things for 15 years.

I'd rather they spend time on varying the environments and perhaps making offensive spells castable before combat begins so I can draw enemies into AoEs the way I used to with (the massively overpowered) storm of the century in DAO. Get rid of the junk loot. And the exploding corpses (well, with walking bomb that would be okay). And please unlock the isometric camera so I can move it over the battlefield. Everything else I want as it was in DA2, including the VP, dialogue wheel and even the UI.

Modifié par keginkc, 08 avril 2011 - 07:58 .

[ItsToofy]

Siansonea II wrote...

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Phantom13NWN2 wrote...

marinerzz wrote...

If you want to fix your reputation after the complete debacle of DA2!

I want to know exactly what I'm telling my character to say, not just a summary (which gives the wrong impression often).

I don't want my PC to have a voice because it will never sound exactly how my character does in my mind and makes the character less my own.

All the non-interactive cinematics destroy immersion because I'm no longer controlling my character.

Fix these problems, i.e. make DA3 like DA:O but without a dumb romance character who only likes you if you're cartoonishly evil like Morrigan was, and you can start making good games again. Don't fix these problems and you will fail sooner rather than later!

This. I whole heartedly agree with this, the moment you lose control of your character roleplaying dissapears.

This is true. However there is a new generation of CRPGs players who define roleplaying simply as being able to make a choice. That makes them a lot easier to please.

Just curious of what you define as the whole new generation, because I am 20 years old, played my first rpg at 13, and I am one of those people who doesnt want anything implemented into an RPG (DA no less) that takes away the roleplaying experience. I play all genres of games from sports to fps to rpg, but rpgs are by far my favourite genre, and I think an RPG should remain an RPG and nothing else.

What does that even mean?

Ironically, I think that I am part of the "whole new generation" of players that is being disparaged here. I'm a 42-year-old woman, and I have NOT been playing computer or console games for decades. I didn't become attracted to games until Mass Effect came along, and the voiced protagonist was a huge part of it. So if I'm the one who spoiled the RPG genre for you kids, then Yay Me!

You didn't spoil the RPG genre, you were just enjoying a shooter that was mislabeld, that's all...

and for a 42 year old woman you seem very keen on crapping on the history of a genre whos roots began in the 70's, people continue to play RPG's because they haven't swung radicaly in one direction or another in terms of being of a differant identity alltogether...RPGs that Bioware rush out now seem to be suffering an identity crisis, they don't even know what they are anymore, and neither do we.

If you enjoy it, great, more power to you, but if you decide to hold to a stance that sais this should be the wave of the future? then you have declared yourself part of the problem, not the solution. RPG's should be about challenge, whether that be through puzzle solving, navigating dialogue, or even as crazy as trying to figure out a discombobulated user interface or inventory system, then so be it. I enjoy those things and it seems like that is now some sort of 'blast from the past" now, and I'm only 27...but I can remember as far back as when I played games like Betrayal at Krondor and Fallout and Ultima. I felt challenged and felt as if I had accomplished something when I eventually mastered all the mechanics and systems of the game and had things figured out, now the developers have these all figured out for us and so lazily entered into the game where now we're supposed to press a button to make awesome happen, there is no more challenge for the sake of pleasing some idiot on a 360 who got tired of pwning n00bs.

for someone who claims they are as old as they say, you sure don't sound any more mature than alot of the trollers on this board, so congratulations for bringing yourself down to their level. Welcome to the internets.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

DA:O's main problem was the silly tiered materials / strengths system creating 8 extra versions of every mundane item, 6 versions of every rune, 5 versions of every potion... and so on.

Even that was only a problem because of the clumsy list-based user interface.

If we had a sortable grid where we could place the stuff we actually cared about in an accessible location, then it wouldn't matter how repetitive the items were.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Siansonea II wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That doesn't make any sense at all.  DAO's lines weren't voiced, so the game never gave you any information about how they were delivered.  As such, you could choose to have them delivered however you wanted.

Exactly.  In DA:O, the *player* chose how the Warden sounded.

DA2 takes that out of the imagination and puts it on a spoon.

To be fed.  To the player. 

Well, all I have to say to that is...omnomnomnomnom. More please!

So what you're saying is, you're not playing the game as an act of imagination, you want to be taken along for the story as if you're watching a movie.

[the_one_54321]

mdugger12 wrote...
So actual options don't matter, just the perception? I don't mean any disrespect that's a bit glib isn't it? So 30 "choices" that directly lead to the same outcome is acceptable? I doubt you truly believe that.

He does, and if you continue the discussion to its conclusion you'll see that he does. His concern is controling his PC, not what the NPCs do or how they react.

[MrProliferation]

I feel rather ambivalent about the voice acting as well. I could go with either silent or voiced. It was weird in a lot of the cut-scenes in origins where everyone is speaking but you. At the same time, I do wonder why you couldn't use the same voice actors for different races. The real constraint there I think is that it would just require a greater quantity of voice acting, like alternate lines from both the PC and the NPC, just like in Origins. DA2 for better or worse (I'm not one who think it's the "worse" column, I'm more ambivalent) would have been a completely different game story-wise if the PC was an elf or a dwarf. It has nothing to do with whether the character was voiced or not.

The Warden could be any race because Warden's exist in a weird place in Thedas where they simultaneously are outcasts and have status, so the baggage of you being an elf or a dwarf was somewhat diminished, even if you did face racism here and there. If Hawke had been a dwarf, s/he wouldn't have been in Lothering. Also, s/he wouldn't have had a mage sister. Nor would s/he likely been Kirkwall nobility or could've obtained Kirkwall nobility. If Hawke had been an elf, s/he would have a similar circumstance, the family ties to Kirkwall would've had to have been different.

Not to say that Bioware couldn't have designed a 40 hour game that took all those nuances into account, but that would've really changed the story at a lot of critical points.

I'd like to see another installment of Dragon Age have race options, but BW will have to either 1) do a lot more work (which EA is never going to give them the resources for), or 2) come up with a story similar to the Warden where the race of the main character won't matter.

Me? WHAT I WANT IS TO PLAY AS AN ALIEN IN MASS EFFECT. Krogan, Quarian, Batarian, Salarian, who cares? But that's a topic and a post for a different thread.

[ItsToofy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That doesn't make any sense at all.  DAO's lines weren't voiced, so the game never gave you any information about how they were delivered.  As such, you could choose to have them delivered however you wanted.

Exactly.  In DA:O, the *player* chose how the Warden sounded.

DA2 takes that out of the imagination and puts it on a spoon.

To be fed.  To the player. 
[/quote

Well, all I have to say to that is...omnomnomnomnom. More please!

So what you're saying is, you're not playing the game as an act of imagination, you want to be taken along for the story as if you're watching a movie.

Button - Awesome claimed another victim, write them off, leave em behind...lets move on...

Modifié par ItsToofy, 08 avril 2011 - 08:01 .

[slimgrin]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

No no no.  All wrong.  They're gone because they were boring.  You guys can play Suitcase Packer XTREME-RPG.  ME2's inventory is the idea.

*shakes cane*

Get off my damn lawn..

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

DA:O's main problem was the silly tiered materials / strengths system creating 8 extra versions of every mundane item, 6 versions of every rune, 5 versions of every potion... and so on.

Even that was only a problem because of the clumsy list-based user interface.

If we had a sortable grid where we could place the stuff we actually cared about in an accessible location, then it wouldn't matter how repetitive the items were.

The only way I can see the interface saving the bloat of versions of everything would be to have things layed out so that if you have more than one "material" or "power" of the same item, they would be lined up horizontally, with the best always farthest to one side (right or left doesn't matter).  Also, it would require making sure that the names and information about every piece of armor, for example, are always formatted in the same way, and consistantly sorted based on useful information. 

[Tirigon]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

When someone says "Get rid of the voiced protagonist" I heard echos of the sobs from when 3D models replaced sprites.

I still want importable 2D character portraits back.

And a grid inventory.  With individual weight limits.

I don´t miss the 2D portraits and models.... better graphics is always betterB)

But indeeed.... good inventory systems were good times in the past.

[Killjoy Cutter]

MrProliferation wrote...

I feel rather ambivalent about the voice acting as well. I could go with either silent or voiced. It was weird in a lot of the cut-scenes in origins where everyone is speaking but you. At the same time, I do wonder why you couldn't use the same voice actors for different races. The real constraint there I think is that it would just require a greater quantity of voice acting, like alternate lines from both the PC and the NPC, just like in Origins. DA2 for better or worse (I'm not one who think it's the "worse" column, I'm more ambivalent) would have been a completely different game story-wise if the PC was an elf or a dwarf. It has nothing to do with whether the character was voiced or not.

The Warden could be any race because Warden's exist in a weird place in Thedas where they simultaneously are outcasts and have status, so the baggage of you being an elf or a dwarf was somewhat diminished, even if you did face racism here and there. If Hawke had been a dwarf, s/he wouldn't have been in Lothering. Also, s/he wouldn't have had a mage sister. Nor would s/he likely been Kirkwall nobility or could've obtained Kirkwall nobility. If Hawke had been an elf, s/he would have a similar circumstance, the family ties to Kirkwall would've had to have been different.

Not to say that Bioware couldn't have designed a 40 hour game that took all those nuances into account, but that would've really changed the story at a lot of critical points.

I'd like to see another installment of Dragon Age have race options, but BW will have to either 1) do a lot more work (which EA is never going to give them the resources for), or 2) come up with a story similar to the Warden where the race of the main character won't matter.

Me? WHAT I WANT IS TO PLAY AS AN ALIEN IN MASS EFFECT. Krogan, Quarian, Batarian, Salarian, who cares? But that's a topic and a post for a different thread.

I see it as more a matter of Hawke being restricted to human so that Bioware could tell us their story, not open up a space for us to tell our own stories within a framework.

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Ironically, I think that I am part of the "whole new generation" of players that is being disparaged here. I'm a 42-year-old woman, and I have NOT been playing computer or console games for decades. I didn't become attracted to games until Mass Effect came along, and the voiced protagonist was a huge part of it. So if I'm the one who spoiled the RPG genre for you kids, then Yay Me!

People who want interactive movies rather than roleplaying should play shooters. CoD was made for you guys and girls:P

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

ItsToofy wrote...

ME2 didn't even HAVE an inventory...it was pretty much the CoD style of choose your loadout.

^_^

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Galad22 wrote...

This is your own opinion.

Personally I think people like you are the reason games are more streamlined, boring and easier these days.

Because I have my own opinion?  I agree.  I'm not a cookie cutter RPG-d00d.  :kissing:

[Bratinov]

Spot on OP.
If the hip crowd need to have a voice actor get someone less bland, The Witcher and Risen have great voiced protagonists.
I myself prefer no VA.