996 réponses à ce sujet

[Big_Chief]

 I dislike this idea that me liking voiced protagonists = having no imagination, wanting no choices, and wanting everything spoon fed to me like a movie. Those aren't the same things. I can imagine the delivery of a silent protagonist just fine, but it's not the same thing for me, and it feels disconnected when everyone else in the world talks and emotes. I can't connect to the character as much.
I think I understand where you're coming from, though. I'd just rather not be insulted for having a different opinion. 

[catabuca]

There seems to be an awful lot of disdain in this thread for anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion as some people.

On both sides.

[catabuca]

Big_Chief wrote...

 I dislike this idea that me liking voiced protagonists = having no imagination, wanting no choices, and wanting everything spoon fed to me like a movie. Those aren't the same things. I can imagine the delivery of a silent protagonist just fine, but it's not the same thing for me, and it feels disconnected when everyone else in the world talks and emotes. I can't connect to the character as much.
I think I understand where you're coming from, though. I'd just rather not be insulted for having a different opinion. 

Yeah, that sums up how I feel too.

[ejoslin]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I want to participate in the action and influence outcomes, but yeah, I like a cinematic experience. If I lose nerd points because of that, somehow I know that my heart will go on.

42 is an age where this is, sadly, not certain. I should see a doctor if I was you.

Hey now, I'm 42 as well -- life is terminal, but anyone can die whenever.  It certainly isn't OLD.

Anyway, I love the silent protagonist.  I am ok with the voiced, but I think it comes at the expense of losing  too much character interaction.

I think there is definitely a place for high quality RPGs -- there's no need to homogonize everything.  When you try to please everyone, you end up with a bit of a mess.  DAO was so popular because it really tried to be a high quality RPG, not a streamlined game that is more acessible to everyone.  However, what DAO did, by being so fantastic, was draw people into the genre who normally wouldn't be interested.

This turned out to be both a blessing and a curse I suppose.  Since people who like a more cinematic type game were drawn into the universe, and were very loud about the type of game they normally preferred, it seems that the designers, instead of trying to continue on this fantastic game they came upon, to please the people who normally woudln't give an RPG a second glance.

Did that make sense?

Ah well, just another old lady and old time RPG fan spouting off her unpopular opinion...

[Heather Cline]

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

[the_one_54321]

Heather Cline wrote...
Get with the times people.

Diversity is not the opposite of progress. <_<

Every other developer does a voiced protagonist. Silence is not oudated, it's just lost in the mad scramble to win more sales.

And actually, as a plain counter example, Link is still one of video gaming's most beloved protagonist and he has never had a voice nor does Nintendo (as of yet) have any intention to give him one.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 08 avril 2011 - 09:17 .

[Siansonea]

ItsToofy wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

ItsToofy wrote...

Well, point proven...moving on...

Oh yes, by all means, You Win™. I'm just not that sophisticated a gamer, I s'pose. Wait, is that ANOTHER oxymoron?

You are in no way contributing to the topic, you aren't even being snarky in an entertaining way, you are merely throwing out insults, labeling people, you could simply say "I would rather keep the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist because that is what drew me into gaming", you proceeded to follow it with insults and labels and unfortunately for you, that makes you no better than any troll that rolls into this forum and proclaims "EA iz the devil!".

Get off your high horse and keep this on topic and at least somewhat civil, at your age you should be setting an example of that maturity you were talking about.

Sorry, but I just find the whole topic to be rather ridiculous. I get that people might have a preference for the old way, but that's not where the industry is going. Some people who have been playing for years want to play new versions of the same games they've been playing for years, but unless you're into JRPGs, that ain't gonna happen. Technology moves forward, everything moves forward, and we should embrace innovation and realism. If that morphs the genre away from "classic" RPGs, well, maybe that genre has run its course, much like Pong and Oregon Trail. You can still play those old games if you like, but it's unlikely that clinging to the old ways is ever going to have any affect on the industry as it's moving forward and trying to reach new audiences. Gaming in general is brushing up against cinema in presentation and audience, and I think that trend will continue as long as technology supports it.

I'm sure at some point the industry will evolve in a way I dislike too, since the whole point of the industry these days seems to be to cater to young males. I get it, this is the demographic that is most easily influenced by advertising, and the most easily persuaded to spend their money on luxury items and entertainment. While I would like to think that persons of advanced age such as myself factor into the gaming industry's equation somewhat, I am not kidding myself that this is the case. So when that inevitable evolution happens, I'll simply continue playing the old games I like, and just not add any new games to my collection. I'm sure eventually I will even tire of my favorites. And then at some point I will die, because I'm, you know, old.

[Siansonea]

And am I the only one who finds the characterization of the voiced protagonist approach as an attempt to make the game "accessible" to be patronizing and condescending? It implies that the persons who prefer it lack imagination or something. If all you want to do is use your imagination, then there is a pastime that caters to that perfectly: writing. You can create EVERYTHING, not just read lines off a screen and imagine how they would be said. To me, that isn't exactly flexing the ol' imagination muscles all that much.

[Heather Cline]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...
Get with the times people.

Diversity is not the opposite of progress. <_<

Every other developer does a voiced protagonist. Silence is not oudated, it's just lost in the mad scramble to win more sales.

And actually, as a plain counter example, Link is still one of video gaming's most beloved protagonist and he has never had a voice nor does Nintendo (as of yet) have any intention to give him one.

They probably will voice him some day or stop producing Zelda games. Either way the game will stop being silent protagonist. Also Samus Aran was a silent protagonist before they gave her text lines in Metroid Games and then voice over in later editions.

Yes there are still some games with silent protagonists, but as I said they are a dying breed. And as I stated before get with the times because if you don't you will get left behind in yesteryear.

[the_one_54321]

I'll say it again, diversity is not the opposite of progress. If people want voiced protagonists so badly why don't they play the pile of other games that have them?

Heather Cline wrote...
They probably will voice him some day or stop producing Zelda games. Either way the game will stop being silent protagonist.

Do you want to make a bet on that? I sure wouldn't object to making an easy $100 or so.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 08 avril 2011 - 09:27 .

[Kimaka]

Heather Cline wrote...

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

I'm getting really tired of people who like voiced main characters imply that those who don't are somehow stuck in the past. Preferring one over the other has nothing to do with one being better than the other but rather different gaming styles. Some like having a voice because it helps make their character more real to them. Others, such as myself, don't since we feel that the voice does not match our character's personality. Both ways are fine.

Unless I am able to have a wide variety of voices to choose from, I won't enjoy having a set voice. And since having one voice for each gender is already costly enough, I will choose voiceless over voiced everytime. It's about personal preference.

[Psython]

Heather Cline wrote...

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

This post gets many lols. Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi? The voiced protagonist is a tool to help bring in players who are either incapable of roleplaying or don't care. It is used to create a more movie like experience for people that have limited imaginations. Maybe you should accept the fact that a lot of people think the voiced protagonist is more stale than a silent one and have good reasons to back that up. In essense, its a difference of opinion and people are looking for different things out of games. The problem is that Bioware is catering to its new and potential audience rather than catering to its actual fans. I fear that they are losing their heart and soul in the process.   

[Heather Cline]

Look at the industry. Almost every game out there has a voiced protagonist. Yes as I stated before there are still some without voiced protagonists. However the way the industry is going the silent approach will die. It's just simple statistics. You all are hung up on the whole "I hate voice overs" thing instead of looking towards your next gaming experience.

This isn't about preference this is about people complaining they want it the old way the way before voice overs happened. That is what the original topic is about. Most of the people in this thread only care that games are moving away from the silent approach and into more voice overs.

Also I'm only stating what I see that people who don't like voice over approach are pretty much stuck in the past. Seriously, like another poster stated, if you don't like the voice over approach then don't play the game. Go back to your SNES, Genesis, and other old systems and play those games. Stop trying to ruin the games that are coming out because you can't stand that gaming is moving forward into voice overs for all characters.

[Siansonea]

Kimaka wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

I'm getting really tired of people who like voiced main characters imply that those who don't are somehow stuck in the past. Preferring one over the other has nothing to do with one being better than the other but rather different gaming styles. Some like having a voice because it helps make their character more real to them. Others, such as myself, don't since we feel that the voice does not match our character's personality. Both ways are fine.

Unless I am able to have a wide variety of voices to choose from, I won't enjoy having a set voice. And since having one voice for each gender is already costly enough, I will choose voiceless over voiced everytime. It's about personal preference.

It sounds to me that you dislike the implementation more so than the overall concept. Do you think that if you had a number of options to customize your character's voice performance, that you would embrace a voiced protagonist? Because I think that's the logical next step in technological progression. Someday computer generated voices will evolve beyond the Stephen Hawking monotone, and there may also someday be a sort of hybrid technology of live voicing and text-to-speech. We may experience in our lifetimes the ability to read a few lines of text into a microphone, and have a game voice a character in our own voice throughout a game. It could happen. Twenty years ago people were playing some pretty simplistic stuff, who would have thought then that we would enjoy the types of innovations that we're seeing now?

[Tirigon]

Siansonea II wrote...

And am I the only one who finds the characterization of the voiced protagonist approach as an attempt to make the game "accessible" to be patronizing and condescending? It implies that the persons who prefer it lack imagination or something.

It doesn´t mean you lack imagination.

but it certainly proves you don´t want to use it while playing <_<

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I'll say it again, diversity is not the opposite of progress. If people want voiced protagonists so badly why don't they play the pile of other games that have them?

Heather Cline wrote...
They probably will voice him some day or stop producing Zelda games. Either way the game will stop being silent protagonist.

Do you want to make a bet on that? I sure wouldn't object to making an easy $100 or so.

Depends on what you're betting on if I want in on that action or not.  If you're betting that DA3 will have a "voiceless" hero again then I'll see your 100$ and raise you 500$ that DA3 WILL NOT go back to the silent protagonist.  As I said before, this isnt something that if enough of you gripe about, that youll get your way on.  BW has decided already that a fully voiced PC is the way they want to go.  No amount of complaining and/or torch waving is going to change that. 

Then again, if that's not what you're betting on then never mind because I did see mention of Zelda so I could be completely off base and if that's the case, I apologize. lol

[AlanC9]

ejoslin wrote...
I think there is definitely a place for high quality RPGs -- there's no need to homogonize everything.  When you try to please everyone, you end up with a bit of a mess.  DAO was so popular because it really tried to be a high quality RPG, not a streamlined game that is more acessible to everyone.  However, what DAO did, by being so fantastic, was draw people into the genre who normally wouldn't be interested.

I'm not really happy with the phrase "high quality RPG" there. I get the feeling it encapsulates a bunch of ideas about what an RPG ought to be that are not really self-evident. Might I suggest "high quality traditional Western CRPG"? More words, yeah, but then we can sidestep the question of whether those RPG traditions are any good in the first place.

[catabuca]

Psython wrote...

This post gets many lols. Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi? The voiced protagonist is a tool to help bring in players who are either incapable of roleplaying or don't care. It is used to create a more movie like experience for people that have limited imaginations. Maybe you should accept the fact that a lot of people think the voiced protagonist is more stale than a silent one and have good reasons to back that up. In essense, its a difference of opinion and people are looking for different things out of games. The problem is that Bioware is catering to its new and potential audience rather than catering to its actual fans. I fear that they are losing their heart and soul in the process.   

It is possible to be an 'actual fan' and also like some of the artistic decisions BW have made recently.

It is possible to roleplay while also enjoying a voiced protagonist.

Discussions as to the merits of either system are great, but bold accusations as to what kind of people like which system, often couched in implicitly derogatory terms, aren't that helpful. Again, on either side.

[Gavinthelocust]

I like the voiced protagonist but the dialog wheel is a mixed bag. We have the icons that helpfully give us an idea of what we're doing, but then it's limited to three options. If we get the Origins dialog system with the icons and a voiced protagonist it would make the game better with out mass effecting it. This is all my opinion and I'm not forcing it on anybody, the way it's meant to be.

[Siansonea]

Psython wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

This post gets many lols. Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi? The voiced protagonist is a tool to help bring in players who are either incapable of roleplaying or don't care. It is used to create a more movie like experience for people that have limited imaginations. Maybe you should accept the fact that a lot of people think the voiced protagonist is more stale than a silent one and have good reasons to back that up. In essense, its a difference of opinion and people are looking for different things out of games. The problem is that Bioware is catering to its new and potential audience rather than catering to its actual fans. I fear that they are losing their heart and soul in the process.   

So it's okay for you to say those of us who think the voiced protagonist adds realism and immediacy to the game "have limited imaginations", but it's not okay for us to say anything about the opposite viewpoint? Like I stated earlier, reading silently to yourself is not exactly on par with composing a sonata, so let's dial back the whole "classic RPGs are for smarter, more imaginative players" schtick. This attitude more than anything is what bugs me about this thread, the idea that there's some sort of heirarchy of player legitimacy, and that players like myself are somehow the Great Unwashed.

[SilentK]

I believe that the wheel worked much better in DA2 than in ME. I discovered DA:O and played ME about a year after that so there was some getting used to it but now I would never trade the wheel and voice back for the list and mute. It just comes down to me feeling attached to my character in a much stronger way when it's voiced. I like DA:O better as a game than ME, but somehow I ended up connecting better to my shepard than my warden. I all clicked when we finally got a voiced DA hero and I've been playing pretty much non-stop since I got the game. Now I'm comparing trying out the games different tones and that has added something extra for me. That it doesn't sound the same way on every game. In ME I'm pretty much always paragon so I know what to expect.

Would not hearing Hawke but getting it subtitled help for them that doesn't like the voice. I guess that would be the easiest solution. Those who want the voice get's to listen to it and those that don't want it can read it. Should be doable, I don't know.

[the_one_54321]

Heather Cline wrote...
Stop trying to ruin the games that are coming out because you can't stand that gaming is moving forward into voice overs for all characters.

Why do you belive that voice overs are "moving forward?" Personally, I like voiced protagonists a lot. But like diversity in available games even more. If there are so many games out there that already have voiced protagonists, why does BioWare need to be another one of them? 

To throw the "you're wrong for having your opinion" think right back at you, is it because you don't have enough of an attention span to read the dialog instead of hearing being spoken? 

Aradace wrote...
Depends on what you're betting on

I'm betting that Link is not going to get a voice in any Zelda game.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 08 avril 2011 - 09:41 .

[Siansonea]

Tirigon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

And am I the only one who finds the characterization of the voiced protagonist approach as an attempt to make the game "accessible" to be patronizing and condescending? It implies that the persons who prefer it lack imagination or something.

It doesn´t mean you lack imagination.

but it certainly proves you don´t want to use it while playing <_<

Yeah, well I could "imagine" doing a crossword puzzle in my head too, but silly me, I'd prefer to use a pen. I guess I just don't want to use my imagination that much. If only I were cooler, and younger. *sadface*

[LiquidGrape]

Psython wrote...

The problem is that Bioware is catering to its new and potential audience rather than catering to its actual fans. I fear that they are losing their heart and soul in the process.   

And of course, the only fans are the ones on a particular side of the argument. I.e, the traditionalists.
I'm afraid it's not quite that simple.

My angle is this: the team easily could've gone for a quick buck.  They could've given us Origins 2.
The developers are evidently more ambitious than that, however, and decided to tweak their formula.
They declined a decidedly safe route of fan wish fulfillment and possible artistic stagnation, rather opting for an elaboration on their original IP, and a desire to explore new means of storytelling in the world they created with Origins.
Whether or not you respond to these changes is, as you correctly observed, something one must decide on an individual basis.
But I don't think it's legit to reduce the whole thing to a matter of "newcomers" and "real fans".
I consider myself a big fan of BioWare's catalogue. I've played Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire and every game they have released since.
Personally, I thought DA2's approach was a welcome experimentation. As well as their most capably told story yet, with a far more personal slant than any of their previous work managed.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 08 avril 2011 - 09:45 .

[slimgrin]

The only time VO's bothered me were in The Witcher because Geralt said exactly what the response was and it seemed redundant. In this context, it makes sense to go with either a paraphrase or a silent protagonist. I've never played a game where a silent protagonist bothered me because I mentally provide the intent of the response. There is a subtle gap between words and tone/inflection. The voice over can potentially remove that.

Modifié par slimgrin, 08 avril 2011 - 09:46 .