996 réponses à ce sujet

[Lalue]

I wasn't a big fan of the voice but i'm trying to replay DA:O atm and my PC seems so lifeless without it. I guess i got used to the DA:2 concept more than i thought.

[Giggles_Manically]

Dear Bioware!

Please make all your games like Baulder's Gate because they were perfect.

Signed:
Old School Rpg Fan.

[Aradace]

Siansonea II wrote...

Psython wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...

I don't agree with this thread. I like DA2. I'm tired of the silent protagonist approach. It's old and stale.

Yeah the game had bugs because it was rushed and could have been more fleshed out. However games are going more and more to the voiced approach. Get with the times people.

This post gets many lols. Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi? The voiced protagonist is a tool to help bring in players who are either incapable of roleplaying or don't care. It is used to create a more movie like experience for people that have limited imaginations. Maybe you should accept the fact that a lot of people think the voiced protagonist is more stale than a silent one and have good reasons to back that up. In essense, its a difference of opinion and people are looking for different things out of games. The problem is that Bioware is catering to its new and potential audience rather than catering to its actual fans. I fear that they are losing their heart and soul in the process.   

So it's okay for you to say those of us who think the voiced protagonist adds realism and immediacy to the game "have limited imaginations", but it's not okay for us to say anything about the opposite viewpoint? Like I stated earlier, reading silently to yourself is not exactly on par with composing a sonata, so let's dial back the whole "classic RPGs are for smarter, more imaginative players" schtick. This attitude more than anything is what bugs me about this thread, the idea that there's some sort of heirarchy of player legitimacy, and that players like myself are somehow the Great Unwashed.

Ive stopped trying lol...Seriously.  At this point, Im just going to sit back, smile to myself and sip on my morning coffee when the day comes that they announce DA3 and the nerdragers wont be getting their "silent hero" back.  Partially because the comedic value of them possibly storming BW HQ with pitchforks and torches isnt entirely out of the question.  But mostly because it'll be their karma for "looking down" on other players who dont play and/or think of RPGs in the same regard as they do.

[Scimal]

MercenaryRQ wrote...

Have to agree, get rid of the dialogue wheel and the voiced PC...

Thought as i see it... DA3 will have the wheel with only one choice as to not overstrain the target audience. Also easier to get back to the "awesome button" action and exploding bodies

reading some posts here i wonder why some ppl play rpgs instead of fps or watch a movie...

The same reason you're not writing fanfiction or LARPing.

The definition of what an RPG is becomes different for each person. My definition is extremely simple, to the point where I think HL2 and its episodes is probably one of the best RPGs of all time. It is on-par with BGII for me. 

Of course, countless people in this thread would cry HALF-LIFE: 2 AN RPG? BLASPHEMY!!! Then you start asking why and they go, "Because you don't have any choices and there isn't an inventory system or stats to represent your character!" Of course, HL2 does have an inventory system, there is a single stat that represents your character (HP is a stat), and... well, they got me there. In HL2 everything is decided for you.

Does it make the game less enjoyable? Not a single bit. If anything, I get a perverse pleasure from knowing the hoity-toity RPG Elitests wouldn't touch HL2 with a 10' pole. They're missing out on some of the best storytelling and physics puzzles around.

Frankly, the more people confine themselves into a single idea of what an RPG is, the more I laugh. Mostly because their eventual humiliation as the genre evolves and completely self-inflicted pain are deliciously comedic, but also because I'm having a lot of fun with other people who could care less what a game is classified as given that it's enjoyable to play.

At this point we won't even be able to ask questions, it'll already be part of the scene, and then we'll have the ME2 style of "This button = douche, this button = hope they let me in their pants" responses.

... Have you seen Miranda's ass? Samara's mind-boggling rack? The nearly irresistable Librarian-Vixen aura given off by Liara in ME1?

Obviously, ye have notte.

We went from 4 way intersections to a one way street that forks in two differant directions but ultimately leads to the same destination.

You know what'd be interesting... comparing whatever game you consider to be the quintissential RPG to something like ME1 and see how many of these little metaphors and analogies are coming right out of your rear. ;-)

[Siansonea]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...
Stop trying to ruin the games that are coming out because you can't stand that gaming is moving forward into voice overs for all characters.

Why do you belive that voice overs are "moving forward?" Personally, I like voiced protagonists a lot. But like diversity in available games even more. If there are so many games out there that already have voiced protagonists, why does BioWare need to be another one of them? 

To throw the "you're wrong for having your opinion" think right back at you, is it because you don't have enough of an attention span to read the dialog instead of hearing being spoken? 

Aradace wrote...
Depends on what you're betting on

I'm betting that Link is not going to get a voice in any Zelda game.

There's that heirarchy again...

Now it's because we have short attention spans. Yeah, we're just not cool enough. *verysadface*

[AlanC9]

Psython wrote...
 Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi?

Is that even a meaningful question? Different music played for different people looking for different experiences.... even if you could have some sort of measurement of "quality" that could rank all music ever, what possible use would that measurement scale be? More likely you'd be measuring class prejudice than anything objective about the music.

[catabuca]

Tirigon wrote...

It doesn´t mean you lack imagination.

but it certainly proves you don´t want to use it while playing <_<

Trust me, I use my imagination plenty when I play these games. I also happen to prefer a voiced protagonist.

There is no right and wrong in this debate. No one of these systems is more inherently 'correct' than the other. They are merely player preferences. A silent PC makes a better game for some players, a voiced PC makes a better game for others. To throw around accusations about the intellectual/imaginative/creative capacity of either type of player is incredibly pointless.

[Tirigon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Psython wrote...
 Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi?

Is that even a meaningful question? Different music played for different people looking for different experiences....

EXACTLY!!!!!!


And that´s why RPGs should stay "old-school", as some like to call it.

For those who want voiced PC, little choices, non-interactive cutscenes etc... there is already Hack´n´Slash, Shooters, adventures, action games, RTS........

[Aradace]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Depends on what you're betting on

I'm betting that Link is not going to get a voice in any Zelda game.

Ahh, in that case, you're probably right.  I had to re-read that because I thought it said "Link isnt going to get a voice..." as in at all.  To which I was going to argue that he technically did in the saturday morning cartoon they used to have.  Yes, Zelda used to be a saturday morning cartoon.  S.o.B I feel old now for even knowing that lol

[the_one_54321]

Siansonea II wrote...
Now it's because we have short attention spans. Yeah, we're just not cool enough. *verysadface*

You missed the irony of the statement. And I tried so hard to specifically point it out too.

If we want silent protagonists because we are old and out of touch with progress, then you want voiced protagonists because you have a short attention span.

The one statement will lead to the other. Or we can drop both of them. It's up to you.

[Heather Cline]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...
Stop trying to ruin the games that are coming out because you can't stand that gaming is moving forward into voice overs for all characters.

Why do you belive that voice overs are "moving forward?" Personally, I like voiced protagonists a lot. But like diversity in available games even more. If there are so many games out there that already have voiced protagonists, why does BioWare need to be another one of them? 

To throw the "you're wrong for having your opinion" think right back at you, is it because you don't have enough of an attention span to read the dialog instead of hearing being spoken? 

No I don't have a problem with reading dialogue instead of hearing it spoken. However it's less engaging to read it than it is to watch it and hear it. I've been playing video games since the 80's so you're accusation can go right to hell if you think that. Also I never said your opinion was wrong. I stated that the majority of the people on this thread are trying to get games back to the 'old school' style and it won't go there. It's moving away from that, gaming has evolved with the technology and I'm tired of hearing complaints about how this sucks or that sucks because of so and so. It's tiring, it shows that none of the posters who are anti-voice over can adapt, evolve and move on. In a job you have to constantly adapt, in real life you have to constantly adapt. However it shows immaturity and lack of adaptability to want stuff from when you were kids. I've went back and watched the old 80's my little pony and the show doesn't live up to what's in my memory. I looked at it and go "I can't believe I liked that" and yet I know I loved it growing up.

Same goes for shows like the Power Rangers, Pokemon and a slew of other television shows I used to watch growing up. Nostalgia is one thing, but yearning for it, demanding it, threatening gaming industries because they won't do it is jut plain messed up.

I can read just fine. I've read at least 3000 books in my life and plan to read more. However, I believe that people complaining about having voiced over protagonists is just immature and it shows. I agree that perhaps Bioware could implement an option to turn the VO off for the main protagonist for those who really hate it. But to have it removed entirely is again immature and shows lack of adaptability.

[the_one_54321]

Aradace wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Aradace wrote...
Depends on what you're betting on

I'm betting that Link is not going to get a voice in any Zelda game.

Ahh, in that case, you're probably right.  I had to re-read that because I thought it said "Link isnt going to get a voice..." as in at all.  To which I was going to argue that he technically did in the saturday morning cartoon they used to have.  Yes, Zelda used to be a saturday morning cartoon.  S.o.B I feel old now for even knowing that lol

Well excuse me, Princess!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The only way I can see the interface saving the bloat of versions of everything would be to have things layed out so that if you have more than one "material" or "power" of the same item, they would be lined up horizontally, with the best always farthest to one side (right or left doesn't matter).  Also, it would require making sure that the names and information about every piece of armor, for example, are always formatted in the same way, and consistantly sorted based on useful information. 

No, the player needs to be able to sort it himself.  That's the whole point of the grid.

My primary complaint with the list is that the groupings are beyond my control, and the placement of the items happens automatically.  If I open to my inventory to get something, I need to find it every time.

Whereas, in a NWN-style grid inventory, everything I want stays exactly where I put it, so I hardly even need to look at the screen.  I know that the potion I want is third from the left on the bottom row.  That saves a bunch of time when playing, because I only have to sort everything the one time and then build from there.  A DAO-KotOR-ME-style inventory forces me to scroll through a huge list hunting for things again and again and again, and it takes a lot more time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tirigon wrote...

I don´t miss the 2D portraits and models.... better graphics is always betterB)

If the 3D models can't produce a character who looks like my character should, how is that better than a system that can?

What is the standard by which you're determining the system that fails to be superior to the system that succeeds?

[Big_Chief]

catabuca wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

It doesn´t mean you lack imagination.

but it certainly proves you don´t want to use it while playing <_<

Trust me, I use my imagination plenty when I play these games. I also happen to prefer a voiced protagonist.

There is no right and wrong in this debate. No one of these systems is more inherently 'correct' than the other. They are merely player preferences. A silent PC makes a better game for some players, a voiced PC makes a better game for others. To throw around accusations about the intellectual/imaginative/creative capacity of either type of player is incredibly pointless.

Also, it becomes less a debate and more namecalling. 

[jsachun]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Heather Cline wrote...
Get with the times people.

Diversity is not the opposite of progress. <_<

Every other developer does a voiced protagonist. Silence is not oudated, it's just lost in the mad scramble to win more sales.

And actually, as a plain counter example, Link is still one of video gaming's most beloved protagonist and he has never had a voice nor does Nintendo (as of yet) have any intention to give him one.

What about the epic Freeman? He has never been voiced either.

[Siansonea]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...
Now it's because we have short attention spans. Yeah, we're just not cool enough. *verysadface*

You missed the irony of the statement. And I tried so hard to specifically point it out too.

If we want silent protagonists because we are old and out of touch with progress, then you want voiced protagonists because you have a short attention span.

The one statement will lead to the other. Or we can drop both of them. It's up to you.

I'm sorry, what were we talking about again? I was doing my nails.

[catabuca]

AlanC9 wrote...

Psython wrote...
 Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi?

Is that even a meaningful question? Different music played for different people looking for different experiences.... even if you could have some sort of measurement of "quality" that could rank all music ever, what possible use would that measurement scale be? More likely you'd be measuring class prejudice than anything objective about the music.

Replying simply to say holy **** this is one of the best posts I've ever read on here.

Sincerely, Lover of Bourdieu's Distinction.

[Aradace]

Tirigon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Psython wrote...
 Is it true that justin beiber or britney spears is an improvement over Vivaldi?

Is that even a meaningful question? Different music played for different people looking for different experiences....

EXACTLY!!!!!!


And that´s why RPGs should stay "old-school", as some like to call it.

For those who want voiced PC, little choices, non-interactive cutscenes etc... there is already Hack´n´Slash, Shooters, adventures, action games, RTS........

To use the metaphor here, even a musician's music (the good ones anyway) "evolve" in some manner over time.  If they sounded the exact same way, in every single song, on every single album, then they'd get old and stale real fast.  Which essentially you could say about "RPGs"  "Old School" is how they started out.  Voiceless heroes staring dramatically off into the middle distance.  Pages upon pages of dialog.  Grid inventory systems.  But now they've decided to "evolve" (I say that word tongue in cheek) so to speak by branching out.  Now, theyve decided to add fully voiced protags to the mix.  And guess what? For the most part, it's pretty much accepted and "liked" which means, until it's completely hated and people (as a whole) are tired of seeing it, you wont be seeing to many more RPGs where you have a silent hero.

Depending on your perception of the subject, that could be a sad state of affairs.  As for me, I dont know about you, but my interests dont just expand to the "classics" I like the "new age" stuff too. 

[the_one_54321]

Heather Cline wrote...
it shows that none of the posters who are anti-voice over can adapt, evolve and move on.

Bogus. Strawman. Inaccurate.

Like I said earlier, I like voiced protagonists just fine. So do a number of other players who play a number of different games.

Thing is that we also like diversity. We dislike that BioWare is becoming Just Another Developer, that does VO just like everyone else dose.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Big_Chief wrote...

 I dislike this idea that me liking voiced protagonists = having no imagination, wanting no choices, and wanting everything spoon fed to me like a movie. Those aren't the same things. I can imagine the delivery of a silent protagonist just fine, but it's not the same thing for me, and it feels disconnected when everyone else in the world talks and emotes. I can't connect to the character as much.

How do you connect -- how do you even need to connect -- to a character that you designed?  You know literally everything about him before the game even starts.

This need to "connect" to the character suggests you don't already know him, and that just makes no sense to me.

[mesmerizedish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

I don´t miss the 2D portraits and models.... better graphics is always betterB)

If the 3D models can't produce a character who looks like my character should, how is that better than a system that can?

What is the standard by which you're determining the system that fails to be superior to the system that succeeds?

It's a modern notion that 3D is inherently superior to 2D. In this case, the standard seems to be "number of dimensions." BGII is the most beautiful game I think I've ever played. But it was 2D, so its graphics are worse.

For the record, this is not an idea that I subscribe to.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 08 avril 2011 - 10:02 .

[Siansonea]

We should all just go back to playing Pong, the original classic RPG. My group of lighted pixels was named Bellicosa the Enchanted Ponginator, and she had a magic castle and a pony that could make sandwiches. Those were the days. I have yet to see a so-called "modern" game that has a pony that can make sandwiches, I mean, what is UP with that?

[ItsToofy]

I'm sorry, I don't exactly see the argument that voiced protagonists are the "wave of the future", and the whole dialogue wheel thing, Mass Effect 1 came before Origins, and Origins still managed to sell exceptionally well, so if something that came out 18 months ago is now the epitome of "old news" then I don't follow that train of thought, it isn't logical. It has been proven that this model still brings success and enjoyment. We just have to wait and see what DA2 brings down the road and if it will truly surpass the original.

[Stegoceras]

Voiced or non-voiced, tough question. I'm don't mind which they choose. However...

If they want to do voiced, I can only say; do it right. If that means they skimp on other aspect of the games than by all means just go back to a silent protagonist.

Of course they will do voiced for DA3, no doubt there. I mean they are voicing over every conversation in SWTOR, like hell they are going back to silent, they call it progess and so it shall be and I severly doubt any amount of complaint would change that.

Modifié par Stegoceras, 08 avril 2011 - 09:58 .