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Get rid of the dialogue wheel, the voiced PC, and the non-interactive cinematics


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#551
sleepyowlet

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Otterwarden wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

That's because you're being all logical and stuff. Really, what are you thinking? In the future, please refrain from that and use grand generalizations, present opinions as fact, and insult anyone not sharing your mind-set.

Thank you for your cooperation./sarcasm


*giggle* :kissing:

That was sweet and made me giggle. Thank you.

Ahem. Well. I'm still kinda new to this whole forum - thing... Isn't that strange? DA:O made me play, and write, and draw ... and DA2 made me post in forums.


Strange... not really... here's my take...  with DA2, Bioware brought the epic struggle out of the box and into real world.  The old guard was forced to come out of retirement and valiantly try to save the RPG genre from extinction.  PC players were pitted against console player, EA was acting as an "illusive man" behind the scenes, the stakes were high and looked pretty hopeless.  This "Certainty of death. Small chance of success. What are we waiting for?" scenario is exactly the kind of thing that appeals to the fanbase, so it hasn't surprised me in the least that so many found there way here.

BTW, in some of your comments I've had a bit of an identity crisis.  It's bad enough you look like me, but when you sound like me... well, it's a bit creepy...lol


Gods. This makes me want to listen to the "Nightfall In Middle Earth" album by Blind Guardian...

"Lost ... everything is lost..."

... and draw a comic. I wish I could draw comic-style. Maybe I'll try anyway.

Twins seperated at birth? :o Nah, really, I only look like you because they don't have a nice owl-avatar, and Cauthrien I can live with.

#552
Otterwarden

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sleepyowlet wrote...

Twins seperated at birth? :o Nah, really, I only look like you because they don't have a nice owl-avatar, and Cauthrien I can live with.


Yeah, the otter didn't make it into the final cut either :(

Edit:  www.youtube.com/watch

Not a big Star Wars buff myself, but I watched this trailer the other day and thought the first couple of minutes fit perfect... just replace Alderon with Bioware and Empire with EA

Modifié par Otterwarden, 09 avril 2011 - 05:43 .


#553
22nd MadJack

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Just give a 'mute' option to the player character to remove both their voice and lip movement. Thereby you can please both the imaginative crowd and the less imaginative.

#554
sleepyowlet

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22nd MadJack wrote...

Just give a 'mute' option to the player character to remove both their voice and lip movement. Thereby you can please both the imaginative crowd and the less imaginative.


Been saying that for (p)ages... if they did that and removed the wheel of WTF (or perhaps removed the WTF from the wheel) and that silly mechanic that makes your character auto-troll/ auto-adulate/auto-rage, I'd be very happy indeed.

#555
AlanC9

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Gatt9 wrote...
This system is nothing more than the other system with the user abstracted away from what he's actually going to say for sake of not making people read.  Often you can find on Gamasutra commentary on why things are being done the way they are,  and you can consistently find that certain changes were made because a number of people purchased a game characterized by mechanics they hate.

-Why do I have to read in a video game,  if I wanted to read I'd buy a book!
-Why did my character miss?  He's right there!  I should hit him every time!
-What is armor class and why should I have to do math!

One player just recently went on such a massive tangent on the ME boards,  insisting he shouldn't have to "Learn" to play a game or "Read a book" to play a game.  These players are clearly not interested in Roleplaying Games,  they're clearly interested in Adventure games,  but rather than educate them by informing them what the games actually entail,  the games are shifted towards Adventure Game territory by the consistent removal of RPG features non-RPG players don't like.

This is exactly why you get the responses you're getting,  because the motivation behind them isn't that the system is inherently better,  it's because the system is being made for people who quite literally don't want to be bothered with intellectual facets and just want Awesome-button games.  Essentially the games are being made for people who hate RPGs.  


By  "hate RPGs" you mean hating traditional RPG mechanics, right? As opposed to the RPG games themselves, since a player can like the games despite their mechanics.

I'm not sure it's quite accurate to say that what these players really want is an Adventure Game. Those traditionally have completely pregenerated characters and no choices whatsoever. Not wanting an RPG (as you define the term) doesn't necessarily mean that the kind of game they do want fits into a traditional category at all.


Your second major problem is your assumption that the Industry is "moving away from that model",  it isn't.  Bioware is,  Bethseda already did,  but they aren't the Industry.  They're just two developers.  Age of Decadence isn't moving away,  neither is Dead State,  and I believe the Witcher 2 isn't either.  


The Witcher 2? The game with a pregenerated VOd character and twitch combat? I guess I'm confused as to what "model" you two are talking about. Or did they take the twitch elements out of TW2?

#556
Otterwarden

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sleepyowlet wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

Just give a 'mute' option to the player character to remove both their voice and lip movement. Thereby you can please both the imaginative crowd and the less imaginative.


Been saying that for (p)ages... if they did that and removed the wheel of WTF (or perhaps removed the WTF from the wheel) and that silly mechanic that makes your character auto-troll/ auto-adulate/auto-rage, I'd be very happy indeed.


It's going to be interesting to see what they did in Witcher 2.  From one of the developer diaries it seems that they have adopted the Mass Effect wheel into their game.  But, from what little could be seen on the background screen, it didn't look like they had gone with the abbreviated options.  Anyway, I'm curious to see their "evolution".

#557
aries1001

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I'm also a fan of the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist. (and may I remind you that a game called rise of the argonauts? apparently also used some sort of dialogue wheel?) To me, a voiced protagonist really brings out the character more clearly, and makes the experience more 'cinematic'.
I see games mainly as a form of telling story via an (interactive) visual medium. And therefore, I like the cinematic feel of both DA2 and DA: Origins just as a like the cinematic visual feel of say The Longest Journey, Syberia, Secret Files: Tunguska and Sherlock Holmes: Awakenings, Post Mortem and Still Life(if you haven't heard of any of those games it is because they're adventure games, games which has puzzles in them....and belongs to a genre that is believed or considered to be -ahem- long dead...it is not, though). The dialogue wheel is ME2 seems to be much improved from the dialogue wheel in Me1 and the dialogue wheel in DA2 improves the wheel by adding tone to your response...

Cutscenes can be great if done correctly, and by that I mean not overdone, or used as a plot device to forward the plot...

#558
sleepyowlet

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Otterwarden wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

Just give a 'mute' option to the player character to remove both their voice and lip movement. Thereby you can please both the imaginative crowd and the less imaginative.


Been saying that for (p)ages... if they did that and removed the wheel of WTF (or perhaps removed the WTF from the wheel) and that silly mechanic that makes your character auto-troll/ auto-adulate/auto-rage, I'd be very happy indeed.


It's going to be interesting to see what they did in Witcher 2.  From one of the developer diaries it seems that they have adopted the Mass Effect wheel into their game.  But, from what little could be seen on the background screen, it didn't look like they had gone with the abbreviated options.  Anyway, I'm curious to see their "evolution".


Not a game for me. I grew up with games that had only male protagonists - and I absolutely refuse to play games that force me to play as a male any longer. I know that sounds kinda petty, but that's the way I feel. I can't connect with a male character.
That is one of the things I love about the BioWare games, they give me an option for a female PC. Many, many games/devs still don't do that.

#559
daymz

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Siansonea II wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

daymz wrote...

Kimaka wrote...

Coming straight from DA:O to DA2, I was hoping that they would have expanded the dialogue options. Instead, it was more or less the same.


Dunno how you could think they were the same, DA2 is so much more restrictive in it's dialogue options than DAO.


Not really, it just gave that illusion. Just because there where 5 or 6 options to choose from didn't mean the npc was going to react differently to all of them in a conversation or there were going to be 5 or 6 different outcomes depending on a decision.


Exactly. And furthermore, you already have multiple options for what you say in response to other characters. You have Diplomatic, Humorous, and Ruthless responses, and you have questions you can ask for more information. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DAO the same way? Yes, instead of it being a laundry list that takes a full half-minute to read, it's a bunch of abbreviated approximations, but it certainly speeds up the dialogue and gives it a more naturalistic feel. Heaven forbid that the game not feel completely abstract.

And if I hear one more person harping about how a voiced protagonist is "immersion breaking", I'm going to have an apoplexy. I guess movies are "immersion breaking" because you don't get to watch the main character stand motionless and silent while everyone reacts to what they didn't say after awkwardly long pauses.

(It's an old quote, but I got back to this late!)

The difference is that there are usually distinct replies and reactions for most of the dialogue options in DAO, in DA2 the reactions and responses are usually exactly the same regardless of what you said to them. I never really felt like I was affecting the outcome of the story during DA2 (beyond 1 or 2 key points).

#560
Otterwarden

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sleepyowlet wrote...

Not a game for me. I grew up with games that had only male protagonists - and I absolutely refuse to play games that force me to play as a male any longer. I know that sounds kinda petty, but that's the way I feel. I can't connect with a male character.
That is one of the things I love about the BioWare games, they give me an option for a female PC. Many, many games/devs still don't do that.


The witcher series relies on the player enjoying the protagonist because there is simply no way to alter the appearance.  Luckily for them I really like Geralt.  He reminds me of a Boromir type, and I felt able to shape him enough to make him my own.  One of the downfalls with voicing a character is that consistency becomes important.  Already I've had to adjust to the visual changes they've made to Geralt, but I'll be upset if the voice isn't the same, or close enough. 

As for to voice or not to voice, I'm willing to adjust because I like the cinemagraphic components to the new games.  It's the quality of the responses that are more important for me.  If I feel they have been tailored to converge to a single target then they become useless.

#561
sleepyowlet

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aries1001 wrote...

I'm also a fan of the dialogue wheel and the voiced protagonist. (and may I remind you that a game called rise of the argonauts? apparently also used some sort of dialogue wheel?) To me, a voiced protagonist really brings out the character more clearly, and makes the experience more 'cinematic'.
I see games mainly as a form of telling story via an (interactive) visual medium. And therefore, I like the cinematic feel of both DA2 and DA: Origins just as a like the cinematic visual feel of say The Longest Journey, Syberia, Secret Files: Tunguska and Sherlock Holmes: Awakenings, Post Mortem and Still Life(if you haven't heard of any of those games it is because they're adventure games, games which has puzzles in them....and belongs to a genre that is believed or considered to be -ahem- long dead...it is not, though). The dialogue wheel is ME2 seems to be much improved from the dialogue wheel in Me1 and the dialogue wheel in DA2 improves the wheel by adding tone to your response...

Cutscenes can be great if done correctly, and by that I mean not overdone, or used as a plot device to forward the plot...


Yes, but some people, me included don't want our RPGs to become adventures. Don't get me wrong, I love adventure games - the Myst-Series is one of my all time favourites, but I play RPGs for different reasons.
I play computer role-playing games because I like to role-play. Turning the gameplay of a RPG into that of an adventure is, in my opinion, just as absurd as adding fights, stats and character classes to Myst.

Adventure games and role-playing-games are two different animals, and in my opinion that should stay that way.

#562
sleepyowlet

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Otterwarden wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Not a game for me. I grew up with games that had only male protagonists - and I absolutely refuse to play games that force me to play as a male any longer. I know that sounds kinda petty, but that's the way I feel. I can't connect with a male character.
That is one of the things I love about the BioWare games, they give me an option for a female PC. Many, many games/devs still don't do that.


The witcher series relies on the player enjoying the protagonist because there is simply no way to alter the appearance.  Luckily for them I really like Geralt.  He reminds me of a Boromir type, and I felt able to shape him enough to make him my own.  One of the downfalls with voicing a character is that consistency becomes important.  Already I've had to adjust to the visual changes they've made to Geralt, but I'll be upset if the voice isn't the same, or close enough. 

As for to voice or not to voice, I'm willing to adjust because I like the cinemagraphic components to the new games.  It's the quality of the responses that are more important for me.  If I feel they have been tailored to converge to a single target then they become useless.


A voiced protagonist is fine, if said protagonist is not supposed to be my character. I have absolutely no problem with Lara Croft being voiced and saying stuff. But if I get to create my own PC, nose-length, hairstyle and all - I don't want to have a voice forced on me that doesn't fit the personality I gave them. I don't want each character I create for a new play-through to sound the same.  Maybe one has a lisp? Or a really deep alto? I'd like to decide that for myself.

#563
AkiKishi

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sleepyowlet wrote...
A voiced protagonist is fine, if said protagonist is not supposed to be my character. I have absolutely no problem with Lara Croft being voiced and saying stuff. But if I get to create my own PC, nose-length, hairstyle and all - I don't want to have a voice forced on me that doesn't fit the personality I gave them. I don't want each character I create for a new play-through to sound the same.  Maybe one has a lisp? Or a really deep alto? I'd like to decide that for myself.



How do you deal with cutscenes?  That's the only point I would say having a voice really matters.

#564
sleepyowlet

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BobSmith101 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...
A voiced protagonist is fine, if said protagonist is not supposed to be my character. I have absolutely no problem with Lara Croft being voiced and saying stuff. But if I get to create my own PC, nose-length, hairstyle and all - I don't want to have a voice forced on me that doesn't fit the personality I gave them. I don't want each character I create for a new play-through to sound the same.  Maybe one has a lisp? Or a really deep alto? I'd like to decide that for myself.



How do you deal with cutscenes?  That's the only point I would say having a voice really matters.


The cutscenes in DA:O were fine... then again, as long as my character is present and conscious there isn't really any need for a cutscene. Apart from a little loving  - but I don't think I need a voice there either. Any other stuff I want to play, not watch.
Cutscenes are for "Meantime in Orlais..." kind of stuff.

#565
Moirnelithe

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sleepyowlet wrote...

22nd MadJack wrote...

Just give a 'mute' option to the player character to remove both their voice and lip movement. Thereby you can please both the imaginative crowd and the less imaginative.


Been saying that for (p)ages... if they did that and removed the wheel of WTF (or perhaps removed the WTF from the wheel) and that silly mechanic that makes your character auto-troll/ auto-adulate/auto-rage, I'd be very happy indeed.


This wouldn't solve the problem since the budget for the voice actor would still have been spent on the PC voice and not on more dialogue and/or choices. Muting the voice does not change that the dialogue would still be limited by the voice budget.

#566
Moirnelithe

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sleepyowlet wrote...

Not a game for me. I grew up with games that had only male protagonists - and I absolutely refuse to play games that force me to play as a male any longer. I know that sounds kinda petty, but that's the way I feel. I can't connect with a male character.
That is one of the things I love about the BioWare games, they give me an option for a female PC. Many, many games/devs still don't do that.

I feel the same way about male protagonists, it's the reason why I couldn't play The Witcher or Planescape Torment for more than 15 minutes even though I really wanted to play and like those games. Unfortunately if this trend of turning RPG's into interactive movies continues I won't even be able to 'play' female protagonists anymore. I'm not interested in cut scenes, fast action combat or picking a choice from a dialogue wheel and hoping something 'awesome' happens.

#567
Otterwarden

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Evainelithe wrote...

I feel the same way about male protagonists, it's the reason why I couldn't play The Witcher or Planescape Torment for more than 15 minutes even though I really wanted to play and like those games. Unfortunately if this trend of turning RPG's into interactive movies continues I won't even be able to 'play' female protagonists anymore. I'm not interested in cut scenes, fast action combat or picking a choice from a dialogue wheel and hoping something 'awesome' happens.


You know in Planescape Torment I felt more like the character's shrink (think "Prince of Tides" here).  Just saying...it's way too good of a game to pass up on a gender thing.

#568
Blood-Lord Thanatos

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the_one_54321 wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...
and frankly older videogames were not the paragons some people make them out to be.


The hell they weren't!! There is a darn short list of modern games that can even hold a candle to older games with regard to anything except graphics.


Given how the younger generations have progressed, I'd say that the times are changing, and furthermore,  as much as I love playing Planescape torment, its an older game that had its turn in the spotlight. Dwelling on the good old days of yore is not productive, especially since taste is a pretty subjective concept. I would suggest that you calm down, and recognize that I am not trying to attack you. Posted Image

#569
erynnar

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sleepyowlet wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

That's because you're being all logical and stuff. Really, what are you thinking? In the future, please refrain from that and use grand generalizations, present opinions as fact, and insult anyone not sharing your mind-set.

Thank you for your cooperation./sarcasm


*giggle* :kissing:

That was sweet and made me giggle. Thank you.

Ahem. Well. I'm still kinda new to this whole forum - thing... Isn't that strange? DA:O made me play, and write, and draw ... and DA2 made me post in forums.



Same here sleepy! I really need to get back to writing and drawng too, but this is cathartic.  And helpful, I like seeing people's take on the game, even if they dont' agree with me.:happy:

#570
Siansonea

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Nothing’s changed in here, I see. On the one hand you lambaste me for having the temerity to say that You Ain't All That, and accuse me of condescension, while in the same paragraph dismissing my preferred style of play as passive and just seeking 'awesome' moments, like Pavlov's dog. If you don’t recognize your own elitism, and the dismissive way you’re categorizing other players, I guess I can’t make you. So whatever.

Some people want "RPGs" to stimulate them intellectually, and in the process stimulate them emotionally. I get that. But I'd rather a game stimulate me emotionally without having to go through a bunch of mental exercises first, as I can and do get intellectual stimulation elsewhere. When a game becomes all about HOW the material is presented rather than the material itself, I tend to lose interest quickly, because that's not what it's all about for me. I’m even planning to give DAO another try, since so many people have said such good things about it, but the abstract wait-and-read conversation method just doesn’t feel natural for me. It takes me to an intellectual place, not an emotional one.

I've had a similar experience with pen-and-paper games. One of my groups embraced 4th Edition D&D, while another did not. I personally did not see a huge difference between the two systems and I don’t really have a preference for either. It's just a set of parameters, it's not the game itself. What matters is the actual content, the story, the characters, etc. If the quality of the story and characters is lacking, that's one thing, but it's not the WAY they're presented that is at fault. That's just architecture, and you can pretty much do anything within the confines of any robust architecture.

A lot of you seem to think that the voiced protagonist is the problem, while I posit that the actual underlying dissatisfaction stems not from the method, but the implementation. If there were 5 different male Hawke voices, and the ability to digitally raise and lower the pitch and resonance of each voice, would people be complaining as much? If you could have your own voice mastered and used as a seamless text-to-speech voice that actually sounded like a legitimate voice acting performance, would you still complain? If you could assign a set of nuanced parameters to guide a voice acting performance in a gameplay options screen, wouldn’t that be a wonderful addition? Sure, right now such ideas are pie in the sky, but they won’t always be. It’s just a matter of technology.

There's much disparagement of the idea that reading and math in a video game should be minimized, but once again, I find this condescending and belittles people who want to have a less abstract, more visceral experience in a game. In a real combat situation, you aren't comparing a bunch of numbers to your opponent's numbers. That's one of my biggest critiques about pen-and-paper RPGs, actually. The combat systems are unavoidably stat-driven, and it's a very abstract system that doesn't feel realistic from a visceral standpoint. I try to compensate by describing the actions of my character in combat, and his or her intent, before rolling the dice, and I also try to have as much of a knowledge of whatever system I'm using to make decisions and resolve die rolls quickly. But it's still a very unwieldy system that doesn't feel at all like heightened state of fight-or-flight the way I imagine real combat is. There’s zero adrenaline during combat at a pen-and-paper table.

It strikes me that the crux of the issue for some is that the voiced protagonist firmly establishes the character as a third-person character, rather than a first-person character. Some wish to inhabit their character more strongly. I get that, which is why I play pen-and-paper games. For the duration of my time at the table, I become Paolo de Luuc, Mahaelis Kreigen, Zdeneka Viridiani, Handsome Devil, Cathexis Aurore or whoever I’m playing. Oftentimes I will create detailed and realistic illustrations of my character, to help the other players and myself visualize how he or she would look, and often that gives me more to work with when I’m creating their personality and psychology, their mindset. That’s the most immersive RPG experience I can think of. But unvoiced protagonists in third-person video games aren’t at all the same thing to me. I’m just picking from a series of options. In a pen-and-paper game, I come up with the options, and I SAY ALOUD what my character says. And I do it in real time. THAT is imagination, that is creativity. Providing your own voice acting in a computer RPG, either aloud or in your head, really isn’t an exercise in creativity or imagination. If anything, it IS an exercise in immersion, but I find myself quite “immersed” in the games with voiced protagonists, whereas with unvoiced protagonists, I really don’t. That does not make me mentally deficient, unimaginative or intellectually inferior, it only makes me in favor of direct emotional stimuli rather than abstract emotional stimuli.

So yeah, maybe I DON’T like “RPGs” as they are defined by established genre conventions. So let’s just come up with a new name for whatever type of game Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age 2 are. And let’s try to find one that doesn’t belittle the people who like it, shall we?

#571
Moirnelithe

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Otterwarden wrote...

Evainelithe wrote...

I feel the same way about male protagonists, it's the reason why I couldn't play The Witcher or Planescape Torment for more than 15 minutes even though I really wanted to play and like those games. Unfortunately if this trend of turning RPG's into interactive movies continues I won't even be able to 'play' female protagonists anymore. I'm not interested in cut scenes, fast action combat or picking a choice from a dialogue wheel and hoping something 'awesome' happens.


You know in Planescape Torment I felt more like the character's shrink (think "Prince of Tides" here).  Just saying...it's way too good of a game to pass up on a gender thing.

I know it makes no sense but I can't play a male protagonist. I can't help but feeling that I'm playing someone else's character. Similar by the way to the way Hawke felt in DA2, which is one of my major gripes with the game. Anyway, the PS:T box is sitting in a book case near me at arms reach and I could have played it at any time over the years but I still haven't. Not sure it will even run on a windows 7 machine.

#572
erynnar

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Tommy6860 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

sleepyowlet wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I love having a voiced protagonist. I think the people who are nerdraging over this need to get with the times and quit harping over the fact that games are evolving. I could never get into Dragon Age Origins because of the silent protagonist, I've always felt that it was peculiar to have a cinematic cutscene where one person is completely silent and you just read what they say. Unnatural, that is. I wouldn't mind multiple voices, but I think the way Dragon Age II handled it was close to perfect. My female mage had the Diplomatic personality, and she was quite the paragon of sweetness and light. My male mage had the Humorous personality, and he was consistently the rakish ne'er-do-well who ultimately chose to do the right thing (usually). The other female mage I'm currently playing (who is a Blood Mage and pro-Templar, go figure) has the Ruthless personality, and she comes across very differently than the other two I've played. So even though I'm staying in the Mage realm (the other classes just don't interest me so far) I'm having very different character experiences. I think this is the direction the industry is moving toward, and it will continue to be refined and improved as technology is refined and improved, but it's still much more of an "immersive" (I hate that word) experience for me to see and hear my character speaking, rather than imagine that the protagonist is some version of "me".


Posts like this make me want to bite into my keyboard. :pinched:

Nerdraging, are we? Well, I'll try to stay civil, though I'm not sure I'll suceed.
You're on the winning side. Kudos to you. Well, some of us would like to continue using their imaginations when it comes to their PCs, thank you very much. And giving our characters a personality of their own has nothing to do with Mary-Sueing through the game.

So you've got a nice mage, a sarcastic mage and a jerk-mage. Nice. You know, when you'll play the other classes you'll be stuck with those exact personalities again. If that's fine with you, well, fine. For me it isn't. I don't like having a protagonist with the emotional range of a teaspoon who randomly starts trolling people without my say-so, just because I use more humorous responses than others. I'd like to do the role-playing myself, I don't like it when a computer does it for me.

I have about eight different Wardens, and they are all in posession of a very distinct personality. One that I made up and applied. Seven of those eight have spared Loghain - and each of them had a different reason for doing so. My two city-elves have mostly the same built, class and stat-wise, but they are very different. One is a charming trickster, and again, most of that happens inside my head, the other one was a very withdrawn, sometimes angry young woman. Both told Cailan that they killed an Arl's son because he raped their friend, but Lyrill snarled that sentence, whereas Chaeli batted her eyelashes and said it in a sugary-sweet tone. My imagination again. I feel really sorry for people who don't have one, or are too lazy to use theirs.

Just because you don't care about these things and are happy with what you get, you really don't need to look down your nose at those of us who don't share your opinion. It has nothing to do with "going with the times" - something that's new isn't necessarily better, just different.


WOW!

Coming from you, that's about as angry as I have ever seen
you post here in these forums. But I agree with you wholeheartedly. Your city elves brought back memories of
may favorite developed character and the sadness that was bheing a "City
Elf". Just that one aspect of a my own PC develpment has more depth than
the whole game of a sequel to that I thought was Dragon Age; Origins. To add, I have dome 14 warden playthroughs as mages, rogues and warriors from each race and story creation. I didn't do dwarves though. I still find great immersion with them.


I agree with sleepyowlet (I think stupid quote codes).  I despise the convo wheel with the passion of a thousand suns. It doesn't go with the fantasy style of the game, only three choices for convo (unless you get the stupid heart, for ****'s sake like I am some fourteen year old girl),  Half the time I didn't know what my character was going to say...SURPRISE! :pinched: And if I have to put up with the wheel of stupid...at least give me the blue and red mouse button options like in ME so I can stab someone in the eye and stop their convo.

And dammit, get the ME out of my DA. I didn't want an exact copy of DAO, nor did I want ME in DA drag.

Preferably I would love to see the wheel of stupid annilated and consigned to oblivion until such time as the technology changes to make the best of both worlds. Me, I prefer to read books than watch movies. I use my imagination, because I have one. I prefer to use that imagination to voice my own protagonists they all have their own personalities. And I too feel sorry for those with no imaginations or the laziness and constant need for hand holding and movies so that one isn't needed because it's just "too" hard to do so.

But apparently imagination loses to "show me."  yippee! <_<

One other thing, the voice of my Hawke now goes with the face I created. As such I can't make another one as they would not be Hawke.  So replay for me gets shot out the window. Another bonus of making up how they sound in my head.

Oh, and despite the snark, I hope I managed to keep my "nerdrage" to a slow boil.=]


No nerdrage taken, but making the comment "wheel of stupid" can be a little inflammatory to those who like DA2. Having said that, I agree and understand exactly what you mean about imagination, as I am an avid reader, more than watching the common Americana type TV fare. If I do watch TV, it is PBS news, or science/nature programming and little else. Using the imagination in Origins when making my dialogue choices was a great pause for deep thinking and preponderance of my choices, the the ultimate effect of my choice whether coming sooner or alter, gacve rise to introspection. That' doesn't happen in DA2. Nevertheless, you'r ideas of an RPG are more fitting to mine, but I would deter to belittle those who differ because their choices are not mine.

:D:D:D



OH you're right...my apologies to DA2 wheel convo lovers! I meant the wheel is stupid not you all. The wheel is stupid in that the sentences are not always what I want to say, and I find the symbols demeaning.  A nice combo of the dialogue choices--with exactly what will come out of my Hawke's mouth, and dropping the symbols would be the comprimise I could definitely live with.  Even if the voiced protagonist makes it harder for me to replay with a different character with a different face.  

And again...my apologies to those who love the wheel and DA2. I am a lover not a fighter. I blame the mead...or you can just blame me.:blush:

#573
Sabriana

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Siansonea II wrote...

<snip because the gist of the post is that "mental exercise is bad"


If you prefer shooters, there is nothing wrong with that. If you prefer hybrids, there is nothing wrong with that as well. However, you have yet to show that you know what a RPG is all about. Heck, there is nothing wrong with preferrence. I love the Twilight Princess, but I also love a genuine RPG.

However, RPG's are my first and deepest love. I resent expecting a follow up on one of the better RPG's and receiving dud. If you can overlook the many lore-busting plot holes, more power to you, but I can't. The game is playing fast and lose with its own lore. I do not like that. I also bought the game and that entitles me to critize it. 

No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in.

All I can see from your posts is that you have no clue what a RPG is really about.

#574
Riknas

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Get rid of the dialogue wheel? No thanks.

Get rid of the voiced PC? No thanks.

Get rid of the cinematics? No thanks.

Alright then, moving on.

#575
Otterwarden

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Evainelithe wrote...

I know it makes no sense but I can't play a male protagonist. I can't help but feeling that I'm playing someone else's character. Similar by the way to the way Hawke felt in DA2, which is one of my major gripes with the game. Anyway, the PS:T box is sitting in a book case near me at arms reach and I could have played it at any time over the years but I still haven't. Not sure it will even run on a windows 7 machine.


Well, I agree with Blood Lord Thanatos that the game is dated a bit and lives on in our memories with waxing nostalgia.  TNO (the nameless one) was someone else's character, but it was my job to find out who he was and why he lost his memory and why he couldn't find peace in death?  How I chose to do so influenced the game tremendously, making me feel very close to the character (closer than in any RPG I've played), and the side kicks were like multiple personalities that kept on trying to leave me clues.  It's just another way of looking at role playing.  From my perspective, fixed character/voiced character is not a wall between the player and the story per se, rather it is the inability to influence the story that prevents the connection.