996 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Baelyn wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Ah. Found it.

That's Darth Gaider's interpretation of "more options." Let me apply a completely different term to it so that it won't fall under his jurisdiction: "more results." Or maybe more divergent reactions.

If Hawke says 10 different things, but only has 2 different response from the NPC, most of those optoins are meaningless.

Absolutely not. Don't dilute the facts with your dislike from whence they came. The fact is that there are more options with the wheel regardless of whether people accept this or not.

It is the same system as Origins presented in a different way with the ability to have more dialogue choices present to the player.

Your dialogue actually matters more in DA2 for your character's progression (I.E. The more aggressive selections you make, the more aggressive your character acts and is responded to)

Sorry, but so what? My husband is playing a complete jerk/mild snark (I played a snarky/nice). The only thing it changes is how you react in cut away scenes, and hardly makes a dent in reponse by NPCs or your companions. For cut away movie scenes and just to see what comes out of your Hawke's mouth (since the wheel choices don't really say what your Hawke does ie ****** off --which the wheel had but Hawke didn't say--and I wanted her to) it isn't worth it to me to try and do another run of DA2 just for that.

[erynnar]

Evainelithe wrote...

If it's going to be a choice between a voiced protagonist and more dialogues and choices, I'd pick a silent protagonist any day. A lot of the times when I picked a choice from the wheel Hawke said something totally out of character and unexpected, I hate that. Especially since what comes out of her mouth is either cheesy, utterly rude or selfdestructive depending on whether you pick diplomatic/sarcastic or aggressive. It was unrealistic at best and ridiculous at worst. I loved the dialogue the companions had, but Hawkes dialog was terrible, most likely because it had to fit the rest of the conversation independant of what tone you picked.

ps. I loved Bloodlines, if only Troika were still around 

This too!  Most of the stuff written that came out of my Hawke's mouth (besides the above) was either cliched, insepid, rude, or immature to boot.  I felt like this game was made for 12 year old girls to play in between texting to their girlfriends sometimes.

[Warheadz]

erynnar wrote...

This too!  Most of the stuff written that came out of my Hawke's mouth (besides the above) was either cliched, insepid, rude, or immature to boot.  I felt like this game was made for 12 year old girls to play in between texting to their girlfriends sometimes.

No matter what you choose, you can't win.

That sums up my experience on the dialogue wheel.

[erynnar]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

You keep calling me a hypocrite, but you're not SHOWING me to be a hypocrite. I think everything I've stated stands on its own, there's no pretense, and I'm not claiming any sort of moral or intellectual high ground like the Old Guard are. People who like voiced protagonists aren't claiming to be the intellectual elite of the gaming community, and I personally am just pointing out that while many of you might be smart-ish and imaginative-ish, we're all still PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. Not exactly on par with a true exercise in creativity and imagination, like say, writing, music composition, etc. You're just mad, and you're resorting to calling me stupid and infantile, when you're actually displaying the very behavior you're disparaging. They have a word for that type of thing, what is it again? Oh yeah, HYPOCRISY.

Erm ... you popped out of the woodwork insulting us as "nerds" and "old-timers" and "not able to adapt", not the other way around. You wrote posts full of glee that we won't ever again get what we want. Does it give you pleasure that we are sad and upset because we are losing something we love? It certainly seems so.

And yes, I play video-games, but I also write (though I only publish my fanfiction online - ideas that aren't mine can't be stolen), I draw and paint (just look for sleepyowlet on deviantArt) and I also sing and write songs, music and all. I do have creative outlets. I just happen to like applying my creativity and imagination to everything I do. DA:O inspired me to draw stuff and to write fanfic - DA2 didn't. I liked role-playing my character in DA:O, and I felt like I couldn't in DA2. The game didn't touch me, because it was like watching a movie - and not a good one at that. My heart wasn't in it, because the spot was already taken.

I'm sitting here, like quite a few others (waves at Tirigon), and write in a language I didn't grow up with. Yet I never claimed to be any kind of elite. Neither did any of those that oppose the wheel of WTF or the voiced character. You brought that word into the discussion. You accused us of thinking we are better. You accuse us of a lot of things.

And I did notice that you never replied to any of my posts.

This. ^  You are my hero. I am so checking out your fanfiction.  And same here, I write fanfiction for DAO because it touched me. DA@ inspired me not at all.

[erynnar]

Warheadz wrote...

erynnar wrote...

This too!  Most of the stuff written that came out of my Hawke's mouth (besides the above) was either cliched, insepid, rude, or immature to boot.  I felt like this game was made for 12 year old girls to play in between texting to their girlfriends sometimes.

No matter what you choose, you can't win.

That sums up my experience on the dialogue wheel.

Yeah, pretty much. I mean some of the snark was funny. But for the most part I felt like I was picking lines of dialogue from the movie Twilight. And yeah, no matter what you choose...*shrugs*

[ejoslin]

Baelyn wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Baelyn wrote...
Ah. Found it.

That's Darth Gaider's interpretation of "more options." Let me apply a completely different term to it so that it won't fall under his jurisdiction: "more results." Or maybe more divergent reactions.

If Hawke says 10 different things, but only has 2 different response from the NPC, most of those optoins are meaningless.

I would agree that there should be more results but DA:O wasn't free of that issue either. That's something Bioware should work to improve across the board.

True, but in DA2 it was much worse than in DAO.

How specifically was DA2 worse than Origins in getting the same responsess from NPC's? Did you count? From my perspective it seemed pretty much the same.

DAO had many more lines of voiced dialog than DA2.  I want to say 30% more (I do not feel like looking for the thread, but it was substantial).  When you add into the fact that DAO had a silent protagonist, that means there was even FAR more dialog in DAO.  Granted, there were more and longer conversations which accounts for some of this.  But there were tons of conversation branches that really went in very different directions (and I have gone over all the companion dialogs in DAO with a fine toothed comb).

[Archer zr0]

i just plain disagree with op

[Sanguinerin]

I have given a lot of negative criticism about Dragon Age II, although none of which were with these elements. In fact, I loved Jo Wyatt's voice for Lady Hawke. Male Hawke's voice is a bit strong for my tastes, but softens with the diplomatic options enough so that it's tolerable. My only issue is the paraphrase we're given does not match what is spoken. Otherwise, I like the dialogue wheel and the voices. I would just prefer a little more clarity.

To the OP: If you really want to have your opinion heard, however, making demands is the least productive way to do so. Give further depth as to why these elements do not make the game enjoyable to you. Also, declaring that BioWare will fail if they do not make the changes you desire isn't a great path to take. Even if the most loyal fans before the game felt like it spit in their faces, that doesn't mean that new fans who enjoyed the different elements wouldn't fill their spaces.

There is great diversity in our own personal tastes, so I don't believe that anyone can really say that BioWare is going to fail if they keep making games like this. Their fan base might change, either in large or small quantities, but that's about the extent of what I would see happening.

End note: If someone else said anything to this extent, I didn't read through all 24 pages. I'm sorry if it's repetitive.

[Zjarcal]

Sabriana wrote...

All I can see from your posts is that you have no clue what a RPG is really about.

And it always comes back to this, an arrogant elitist telling everyone that they don't know what an ARPEEGEE is about.

<_<

[aries1001]

I think we need to make a distinction here between the wheel (how the dialogue is shown) and the dialogue itself. And yes, the dialogues in DA2 might great or not that great, but has it anything to do with how the dialogue itself is presented? in the dialogue wheel, I mean?

As I said earlier, I think of videogames as means to telling a story, any story; videogames to me are also more of a visual media than say a book, a novel or a short story. Thus, I like the new cinematic design of Bioware's games. Many people don't like that crps are going in this direction, and I can certainly understand why; imo, they like to read, to think, to seek an intellectually challenge while playing a game, while I like to be emotionally invested in the story, whether it is in a game, in a book, in a movie or in a tv-series.

As for DA2 being an action adventure game, maybe so, but can you put points into strength, cunning, customize things (armour etc) in say Drake's Fortune or Uncharted. Or Far Cry or FEAR or even the now most Call of Duty gamers (of which, I, too am, one). Mosyly because these games seem to have a somewhat good story as well - of if I just am in the mood to -ahem- watch things explode...in the game, of course...

The many people that does like intellectual challenged in their games are probably also the same people that like to do no-reload challenges, like to experiment with different set-ups for strategic and tactical combat, and like to fiddle a lot around with stats. I, for one, like this, too. However, it has to meaning in the game and should be tied into the core game's mechanics as well as help the gamer/player to determine how they want their character (pc) to develop during the game.

PS: Torment (December 12th 1999) is an amazing game, mainly created because the developers wanted to make all things topsey-turvey; stats like Charisma were now suddenly usefull, death didn't mean game over, it could actually be beneficial to die. The devs. back then wanted to take all conventions in D&D and take them for a spin - or four....- And the setting, the planes, were the correct place to do this, since the Planes (which sadly no longer exists in D&D) is sort of a wacky place to begin with. As for Witcher 2, I thought the devs. once mentioned we would be able to play as a woman this time around?

As for the dialogue, don't you ever use the investigate option? It opens some new choices during conversation. And yes, it might well be that the lines are not that great. If so, this is not the fault of the dialoge wheel, but of the writing team.

[sleepyowlet]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

All I can see from your posts is that you have no clue what a RPG is really about.

And it always comes back to this, an arrogant elitist telling everyone that they don't know what an ARPEEGEE is about.

<_<

She's stating a fact, nothing elitist about that. And I happen to agree. So yes, maybe that makes me arrogant and elitist in your opinion too. U mad? By the way, elitist is not an insult. Belonging to an elite is a good thing - and the only people who have a problem with that are those who don't.

[TheSeeker33]

I, personally, like the voiced Hawke. Gives your PC more character instead of the blank stare that was kinda boring in DAO. I don't think BioWare is going back to the way DAO was, because Mike said they wouldn't have taken a 180 degree turn just to go back. So we should just get use to it.

[AlanC9]

Sabriana wrote...
No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in. 

What's the metric you're using for RPG/ not-RPG?

[Emeraq]

I vote no to all the requests in the title of this thread.

Instead I want Bioware to give us more choices in the dialogue wheel; I want voice options, let me choose what I sound like. Yes I know that means more voice actors but if we are forced to play a character not of our own choosing, aside from appearance and class, then give us a little more freedom.

[the_one_54321]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in.

What's the metric you're using for RPG/ not-RPG?

There is no such thing as an RPG, and we should all get used to not using that term anymore. There is only market jargon. Publishers use "RPG" when they want to appeal to certain perceptions in their target audience. That is all.

What there is, however, are games that allow you to create a character, make choices with that character, play tactically and based on stats, and enjoy an engrossing story. Call that whatever you want. The label is less important than the description.

[Merced652]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in. 

What's the metric you're using for RPG/ not-RPG?

Does it matter? No matter what he says hes going to get shouted down by the flawed ass logic that previous games had you playing a defined character. Forgetting of course that that defined character was much less defined and therefore lent itself to being more of a RPG. But whatever, i'm tired of fighting this dumb interactive movie craze. I just hope it leads to complete ****ing genre death. 

Modifié par Merced652, 09 avril 2011 - 11:11 .

[erynnar]

Merced652 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...
No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in. 

What's the metric you're using for RPG/ not-RPG?

Does it matter? No matter what he says hes going to get shouted down by the flawed ass logic that previous games had you playing a defined character. Forgetting of course that that defined character was much less defined and therefore lent itself to being more of a RPG. But whatever, i'm tired of fighting this dumb interactive movie craze. I just hope it leads to complete ****ing genre death. 

I am with you on the dumb interactive movie craze...I despise it. I prefer an interactive book with cut scenes.

[Siansonea]

Sabriana wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

<snip because the gist of the post is that "mental exercise is bad"

If you prefer shooters, there is nothing wrong with that. If you prefer hybrids, there is nothing wrong with that as well. However, you have yet to show that you know what a RPG is all about. Heck, there is nothing wrong with preferrence. I love the Twilight Princess, but I also love a genuine RPG.

However, RPG's are my first and deepest love. I resent expecting a follow up on one of the better RPG's and receiving dud. If you can overlook the many lore-busting plot holes, more power to you, but I can't. The game is playing fast and lose with its own lore. I do not like that. I also bought the game and that entitles me to critize it. 

No, imo DA 2 is not a RPG. It is an action adventure. Nothing wrong with action adventures, but when you expect an RPG, and get an action adventure, disappointment and dislike sets in.

All I can see from your posts is that you have no clue what a RPG is really about.

Pro tip: Telling somebody they "have no clue" about something is dismissive and condescending. FYI. And your summary of my post only shows that you completely missed the point of what I was saying. And it gave you another opportunity to be dismissive and condescending, so I guess you got what you wanted out of it. Clearly there's no point in discussing anything with you.

And for my part, I don't CARE what a *real* RPG is. If Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 aren't *real* RPGs by the standards of the irate people here, then I am fine with that. You can have your *real* RPGs. I'll take whatever the aforementioned trio of games is. None of the other games cited as examples of *real* RPGs interest me in any way, and if that makes me somehow inferior to the rest of you in your opinion, then so be it. It doesn't affect my life in any way.

[Hurbster]

I'd just like to be sure of what Hawke is saying when I select an option, rather than guessing.

[Zjarcal]

sleepyowlet wrote...
She's stating a fact, nothing elitist about that. And I happen to agree. So yes, maybe that makes me arrogant and elitist in your opinion too. U mad? By the way, elitist is not an insult. Belonging to an elite is a good thing - and the only people who have a problem with that are those who don't.

Since you also seem to claim to know the "facts" about what a real ARPEEGEE is, and then go on saying how you're part of the elite, yes, you're an arrogant elitist too.

Whether you take that as an insult or not, I don't care.

Siansonea II wrote...
And for my part, I don't CARE what a *real* RPG is. If Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 aren't *real* RPGs by the standards of the irate people here, then I am fine with that. You can have your *real* RPGs. I'll take whatever the aforementioned trio of games is. None of the other games cited as examples of *real* RPGs interest me in any way, and if that makes me somehow inferior to the rest of you in your opinion, then so be it. It doesn't affect my life in any way.

Exactly.

If those games aren't "real RPGs" and enjoying them means I'm part of the "unwashed masses", then hooray for that! 

the_one_54321 wrote...
What there is, however, are games that allow you to create a character, make choices with that character, play tactically and based on stats, and enjoy an engrossing story. Call that whatever you want. The label is less important than the description. 

Agreed so much with the last sentence.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 10 avril 2011 - 12:31 .

[Aggie Punbot]

I disagree with absolutely everything the original poster said.

That is all.

[Persephone]

erynnar wrote...

This too!  Most of the stuff written that came out of my Hawke's mouth (besides the above) was either cliched, insepid, rude, or immature to boot.  I felt like this game was made for 12 year old girls to play in between texting to their girlfriends sometimes.

Wow.....just WOW.

Never mind that I'm neither twelve nor play the game in between texting my girlfriends...

But twelve year olds should play a game that deals with rape, abuse, fanaticism, terrorism, torture, mental illness, serial killers (A child killer among them!), mass murderers, corruption, demonic possession....

Never mind Izzy's delightfully dirty mouth....

Seriously, this is WAY beyond constructive criticism....as a fellow Loggy lover, you disappoint me. Greatly.

[erynnar]

Persephone wrote...

erynnar wrote...

This too!  Most of the stuff written that came out of my Hawke's mouth (besides the above) was either cliched, insepid, rude, or immature to boot.  I felt like this game was made for 12 year old girls to play in between texting to their girlfriends sometimes.

Wow.....just WOW.

Never mind that I'm neither twelve nor play the game in between texting my girlfriends...

But twelve year olds should play a game that deals with rape, abuse, fanaticism, terrorism, torture, mental illness, serial killers (A child killer among them!), mass murderers, corruption, demonic possession....

Never mind Izzy's delightfully dirty mouth....

Seriously, this is WAY beyond constructive criticism....as a fellow Loggy lover, you disappoint me. Greatly.

UGH! Sorry, could have said that better *facepalm*  I should have said the dialogue that came out of my Hawke's mouth sometimes sounded like it was written for a twelve year old girl. Not that twelve year old girls should be playing the game. Mea culpa!

[Tirigon]

sleepyowlet wrote...

Gods. This makes me want to listen to the "Nightfall In Middle Earth" album by Blind Guardian...

"Lost ... everything is lost..."

That, generally, is a good idea I would say. Blind Guardian are awesome:wub: