996 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

20 years is mucho over exaggeration. 5-10 years at most. That's like one Blizzard game.

Besides, it's the typical "do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?" predicament.

I'm perfectly happy to live with unvoiced characters until it gets done right.

[Merced652]

mrcrusty wrote...

20 years is mucho over exaggeration. 5-10 years at most. That's like one Blizzard game.

Besides, it's the typical "do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?" predicament.

I'm perfectly happy to live with unvoiced characters until it gets done right.

The way i look at it is this:

In 5-10 years the market for these games will not grow enough in order to justify doubling or more the cost associated with VO work. Obviously thats conjecture, but i think its rather sound given how mediocre this games sales are. How many sales would they need to consistently get in 5-10 years to justify that kind of cost? 5 million? More? Give me 3 options per gender in DA2 and i dislike it less, but to me that doesn't even begin to bring in even a portion of the necessary audience to make it worthwhile for EA/Bioware. 

Modifié par Merced652, 12 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[TEWR]

marinerzz wrote...

If you want to fix your reputation after the complete debacle of DA2!

your opinion that it was a massive failure. Mine is that it was an awesome game. Definitely could've been better, but overall was a good enough game. Act 2 was the best.

I want to know exactly what I'm telling my character to say, not just a summary (which gives the wrong impression often).

I agree the Dialogue wheel should go and we should get the list back. But if possible, keep the ways of letting us know what is what (what's sarcasm and everything, because in DA:O I messed it up a few times).

I don't want my PC to have a voice because it will never sound exactly how my character does in my mind and makes the character less my own.

In DA:O you picked your voice too. A battle voice only, but a voice nonetheless. Once you picked that, your character had that voice. You imagining how he sounded ceased to exist at that point, so he was never a silent protagonist.

Personally, I'm in favor of record multiple voices that we can choose from. "I like Voice B over A and C. That's what this character sounds like to me." Seems like a win-win to me.

All the non-interactive cinematics destroy immersion because I'm no longer controlling my character.

There were barely any and your immersion was broken? There was like one per act.

Fix these problems, i.e. make DA3 like DA:O but without a dumb romance character who only likes you if you're cartoonishly evil like Morrigan was, and you can start making good games again. Don't fix these problems and you will fail sooner rather than later!

meh.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 avril 2011 - 03:27 .

[steve3194]

Merced652 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

20 years is mucho over exaggeration. 5-10 years at most. That's like one Blizzard game.

Besides, it's the typical "do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?" predicament.

I'm perfectly happy to live with unvoiced characters until it gets done right.

The way i look at it is this:

In 5-10 years the market for these games will not grow enough in order to justify doubling or more the cost associated with VO work. Obviously thats conjecture, but i think its rather sound given how mediocre this games sales are. How many sales would they need to consistently get in 5-10 years to justify that kind of cost? 5 million? More? Give me 3 options per gender in DA2 and i dislike it less, but to me that doesn't even begin to bring in even a portion of the necessary audience to make it worthwhile for EA/Bioware.

bottom line is the cost to have 3 voices actors per gender would be far,far too high lets be realistic.

My thoughts remain that when your character is voiced he truly is a character.And can emit personality in game.
when he is not voiced he is a shell and its up to you to use your imagination to give him character,which may not be  a bad thing but then his personality is really only what you imagine it to be on is not actually portrayed in game

[LTD]

While I too dislike many things in DA II, I could never agree with OP. Suggesting Dialogue wheels or voiced PCs are a bad thing by default is regressive and silly.

Since you have some sort of Turbo imagination on steroids continuously delivering you SUCH a vivid image of exactly how the PC sounds like, I'm sure you have no issues in putting this million dollar imagination in good use by trying to visualize what Mass Effect would have been like without voiced main character.

Dialogue wheel and the old school method both have their strong and weak points. Neither is, by default extremely good or extremely bad. It all depends on execution. As much as I love DA:O, I strongly dislike the way (PC's) dialogue is presented. It is such a dumb "inbetween two worlds" type of a thing. In DA:O, you are stuck with a mute character with worthless non-dialogue. Every single option you ever have is compact as hell, roughly of size you see in dialogue wheels. Did you ever get to pick an option longer than 4 words in DAO? You have a situation where you get to use the imaginaaaation in both way your PC sounds like and what he says. Nice. It's not that far from settling to imagine playing a game. That way you can make your own plot. Fuk yas.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Merced652 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

20 years is mucho over exaggeration. 5-10 years at most. That's like one Blizzard game.

Besides, it's the typical "do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?" predicament.

I'm perfectly happy to live with unvoiced characters until it gets done right.

The way i look at it is this:

In 5-10 years the market for these games will not grow enough in order to justify doubling or more the cost associated with VO work. Obviously thats conjecture, but i think its rather sound given how mediocre this games sales are. How many sales would they need to consistently get in 5-10 years to justify that kind of cost? 5 million? More? Give me 3 options per gender in DA2 and i dislike it less, but to me that doesn't even begin to bring in even a portion of the necessary audience to make it worthwhile for EA/Bioware. 

Well, if we bring the money and audience aspect into it, EA owning Bioware makes the debate irrelevant. In 5-10 years, Bioware will probably be gutted and disbanded. Pretty much every major studio that has been absorbed by EA already has.

For the record, Bioware's shift to interactive cinematics makes voiced protagonists more and more vital, but I'm speaking about the concept clash of voiced v mute protagonist for PnP emulating RPGs. Interactive cinematic narratives =/= RPGs, though both have their merits.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 12 avril 2011 - 04:05 .

[Merced652]

Mass Effect was designed around a VO'd protag and epic storyline. DA2 was designed around... mediocrity?

[neppakyo]

Merced652 wrote...

Mass Effect was designed around a VO'd protag and epic storyline. DA2 was designed around... mediocrity?

That and Shepard from ME.

hmm, Hawpard. Or Shewke. Hrmm.

[SilentK]

Vicious wrote...

I am just really happy that they have already said the voiced protagonist is here to stay.

Woohoo

Where have you seen that, want to read it for myself      happy happy joy joy!! I loved having a voice! Would be really nice to know that that will continue in the next game!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tommy6860 wrote...

This is simply your opinion, not fact, take it as you will, as I am getting it just fine.

That you dismiss my remarks as mere opinion demonstrates that you don't understand what I've said.

If you think it isn't a good thing, then that is for you and I am not one to say it is or isn't a good thing for anyone else, only I can judge how my reaction was to that scene.

You seem unable to comprehend that other characters - those meaningfully different from the one(s) you played - would have problems there.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 12 avril 2011 - 06:46 .

[Monica83]

Siansonea II wrote...

Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that "RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers. Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet™. I'm over it, so buh-bye. After all, I'm getting what I want from BioWare. Malign them and me all you want, but you'll only hurt your own "cause" by doing so.

I'll go hang out with the so-called "stupid" and "unimaginative" people—i.e., the ones who can adapt to new circumstances and offer feedback about video games without sounding like petulant infants who've dropped their pacifier. And if by "stupid" you mean "does not have a personality disorder" then you are free to call me that. And if by "unimaginative" you mean "doesn't think reading someone else's writing in a fake British accent is the epitome of imagination", then you are free to call me that too.

Have fun storming the castle kids.

oh look a fanboy

Since i have not problem with a voiced protagonist but kill that damn dialog wheel with the schematic paraphrase system it's a shame in a game like dragon age.....

Ho here's the dialogue sarcastic button,aggressive button,diplomatic button,investigate but where i can see my answers???

[steve3194]

Monica83 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that "RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers. Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet™. I'm over it, so buh-bye. After all, I'm getting what I want from BioWare. Malign them and me all you want, but you'll only hurt your own "cause" by doing so.

I'll go hang out with the so-called "stupid" and "unimaginative" people—i.e., the ones who can adapt to new circumstances and offer feedback about video games without sounding like petulant infants who've dropped their pacifier. And if by "stupid" you mean "does not have a personality disorder" then you are free to call me that. And if by "unimaginative" you mean "doesn't think reading someone else's writing in a fake British accent is the epitome of imagination", then you are free to call me that too.

Have fun storming the castle kids.

oh look a fanboy

Since i have not problem with a voiced protagonist but kill that damn dialog wheel with the schematic paraphrase system it's a shame in a game like dragon age.....

Ho here's the dialogue sarcastic button,aggressive button,diplomatic button,investigate but where i can see my answers???

seeing the exact answers can sometimes take away from the experience.espicelly with the funny lines
jokes don't have much impact when you already know whats coming

[Boiny Bunny]

^ Not nearly as often as not knowing what you are going to say, and getting a completely different reaction to what you had intended.

[Miashi]

I don't mind the voiced protagonist, but the dialog wheel is not working well enough to convey the intentions. What I found difficult is that sometimes you'll get attitude hints (leaf, mask, hammer and whatever), but sometimes you have a 3 way dillemma and the text is ambiguous about what Hawke will end up saying next.

Why not keep Dragon Age: Origins sentence response style but let the protagonist narrate them? There'd be no surprise and it'd work out fine.

Modifié par Miashi, 12 avril 2011 - 11:07 .

[Monica83]

steve3194 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that "RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers. Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet™. I'm over it, so buh-bye. After all, I'm getting what I want from BioWare. Malign them and me all you want, but you'll only hurt your own "cause" by doing so.

I'll go hang out with the so-called "stupid" and "unimaginative" people—i.e., the ones who can adapt to new circumstances and offer feedback about video games without sounding like petulant infants who've dropped their pacifier. And if by "stupid" you mean "does not have a personality disorder" then you are free to call me that. And if by "unimaginative" you mean "doesn't think reading someone else's writing in a fake British accent is the epitome of imagination", then you are free to call me that too.

Have fun storming the castle kids.

oh look a fanboy

Since i have not problem with a voiced protagonist but kill that damn dialog wheel with the schematic paraphrase system it's a shame in a game like dragon age.....

Ho here's the dialogue sarcastic button,aggressive button,diplomatic button,investigate but where i can see my answers???

seeing the exact answers can sometimes take away from the experience.espicelly with the funny lines
jokes don't have much impact when you already know whats coming

So its better for you don't see them? So you have a random answer that don't allow you to cover the conversation and select a answer?

[Miashi]

steve3194 wrote...
seeing the exact answers can sometimes take away from the experience.espicelly with the funny lines
jokes don't have much impact when you already know whats coming

Not true. It's not so much what you're saying, but the response to it that matters. If you don't know what you're gonna say, you can't really judge what kind of reaction you're going to get.

I mean, if you're surprised at what you tell people in everyday life, you must be very impulsive or something

Modifié par Miashi, 12 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[Herz2146]

It's funny looking through the responses and seeing who has been posting what. Many of us who have played ME and the original DA:O seem to like the new changes. Those who have only played DA seem to hate the new changes.

Personally I liked the new changes. Initially the game is very different from the original but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately I've been enjoying myself so far after the initial impressions. I thought adding in a voiced character was a huge improvement. The dialogue wheel is great too. It's not entirely like ME's. Although it's similar enough to keep me entertained.

Overall, there are going to be people who enjoy and hate every game.  Am I a fanboy?  Yeah... I play mostly Bioware games only.  I mean this is a Bioware forum right?  ...

Also, what's the point in talking about if there will be a DA3? There's a lot that goes into such a decision and that is beyond all of our knowledge. Half the reason I don't regularly post on these forums is because half of it seems to be flaming Bioware.

Modifié par Herz2146, 12 avril 2011 - 11:53 .

[Miashi]

Herz2146 wrote...

It's funny looking through the responses and seeing who has been posting what. Many of us who have played ME and the original DA:O seem to like the new changes. Those who have only played DA seem to hate the new changes.

No?

[Merced652]

steve3194 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that "RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers. Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet™. I'm over it, so buh-bye. After all, I'm getting what I want from BioWare. Malign them and me all you want, but you'll only hurt your own "cause" by doing so.

I'll go hang out with the so-called "stupid" and "unimaginative" people—i.e., the ones who can adapt to new circumstances and offer feedback about video games without sounding like petulant infants who've dropped their pacifier. And if by "stupid" you mean "does not have a personality disorder" then you are free to call me that. And if by "unimaginative" you mean "doesn't think reading someone else's writing in a fake British accent is the epitome of imagination", then you are free to call me that too.

Have fun storming the castle kids.

oh look a fanboy

Since i have not problem with a voiced protagonist but kill that damn dialog wheel with the schematic paraphrase system it's a shame in a game like dragon age.....

Ho here's the dialogue sarcastic button,aggressive button,diplomatic button,investigate but where i can see my answers???

seeing the exact answers can sometimes take away from the experience.espicelly with the funny lines
jokes don't have much impact when you already know whats coming

You're assuming of course the trollface option elicited any laughs to begin with and more so because it was spoken rather than read. I don't think theres a metric for this so i'm not sure why you're going to make that assertion. 

Modifié par Merced652, 12 avril 2011 - 12:30 .

[Miashi]

Merced652 wrote...
You're assuming of course the trollface option elicited any laughs to begin with and more so because it was spoken rather than read. I don't think theres a metric for this so i'm not sure why you're going to make that assertion. 

Talking about the Trollface, there's a lot of good 1 liners thrown out by Hawke, but half the time npcs do not respond (positively or negatively) to it. Guess people in Kirkwall know the internets better than most of us out there.

Modifié par Miashi, 12 avril 2011 - 12:37 .

[PPR223]

I don't mind the voiced protagonist, however the way Bioware execute it in their games needs to be improved. The problem is not actually with the conversation wheel itself, though I'd like a different format for Dragon Age, but more to do with the inability to branch the reponses.

What I mean by branching is that you should be able to select an overall response, and then define said response to what you want to say. The overall response should be more descriptive about what it is going to say, such as "Tell him to go away". When selecting this response, it would branch off to the tone that you want your character to use, like "Aggressive" or "Diplomatic". When you select "Aggressive", the character will say "****** Off", and when you select "Diplomatic, it will say "Leave now, or I will force you".

Another gripe I had with the conversations in DA2, is how forced the "Sarcasm" option seemed to be. There were times in DA2, when it didn't work whatsoever and ony felt like it was there so you can have three choices. If they took out this improper use of sarcasm, they could have used the sentence to construct a better conversation elsewhere. This is why I did not put a "Sarcasm" choice in my example, as it just plain doesn't work.

[Monica83]

Merced652 wrote...

steve3194 wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that "RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers. Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet™. I'm over it, so buh-bye. After all, I'm getting what I want from BioWare. Malign them and me all you want, but you'll only hurt your own "cause" by doing so.

I'll go hang out with the so-called "stupid" and "unimaginative" people—i.e., the ones who can adapt to new circumstances and offer feedback about video games without sounding like petulant infants who've dropped their pacifier. And if by "stupid" you mean "does not have a personality disorder" then you are free to call me that. And if by "unimaginative" you mean "doesn't think reading someone else's writing in a fake British accent is the epitome of imagination", then you are free to call me that too.

Have fun storming the castle kids.

oh look a fanboy

Since i have not problem with a voiced protagonist but kill that damn dialog wheel with the schematic paraphrase system it's a shame in a game like dragon age.....

Ho here's the dialogue sarcastic button,aggressive button,diplomatic button,investigate but where i can see my answers???

seeing the exact answers can sometimes take away from the experience.espicelly with the funny lines
jokes don't have much impact when you already know whats coming

You're assuming of course the trollface option elicited any laughs to begin with and more so because it was spoken rather than read. I don't think theres a metric for this so i'm not sure why you're going to make that assertion. 

The difference between me and you is i never used word like "
Well if there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that
"RPG purists" are an even bigger group of babies than Talimancers.
Congratulations for becoming The Most Annoying Group On The Internet" so who is the troll?

[simonc4175]

I don't see how anyone can fine a silent main character immersive in DA;O. Playing Origins then 99% of the same "The Warden" was a blank emotionless zombie who most of the time had no sense of personality. Even when the male warden was humping Morrigan he looked scared to death.

The dialog wheel I though was much better then the generic sentences of Origins. I don't really see the problem with since both systems have a final outcome but atleast is DA2 different companions in the party can actually change the outcome. Having Varric when you rescue the Mages in act 1 let's you talk the way of a that encounter, which from memory the companions had no real effect in DA:O.

If people don't like a voiced main character then the obvious option is give an in game option to disable their audio. But honestly "The Warden" was boring.

Modifié par simonc4175, 12 avril 2011 - 12:51 .

[Tommy6860]

inkjay wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

But op!

If we discard the dialogue wheel we'll loose this pure-win mod!


http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=2623

Changing the expression icons doesn't fix the broken dialogue though.

But I think it puts it very well into context: useless drivel coated with cookie-cutter emotions.

OK, point taken.

[Curlain]

simonc4175 wrote...

I don't see how anyone can fine a silent main character immersive in DA;O. Playing Origins then 99% of the same "The Warden" was a blank emotionless zombie who most of the time had no sense of personality. Even when the male warden was humping Morrigan he looked scared to death.

The dialog wheel I though was much better then the generic sentences of Origins. I don't really see the problem with since both systems have a final outcome but atleast is DA2 different companions in the party can actually change the outcome. Having Varric when you rescue the Mages in act 1 let's you talk the way of a that encounter, which from memory the companions had no real effect in DA:O.

If people don't like a voiced main character then the obvious option is give an in game option to disable their audio. But honestly "The Warden" was boring.

For a number of us the silent PC isn't silent, they are the avatar through which I act out my character ingame and interact with companions, npcs and the game world at large, I look at the responses in the dialogue tree and know exactly which one the character I'm playing would respond with, and know exactly the tone and inflection etc they say it with, and hear it in my head as I read it (since I'm RPing as that character, and in my mind speaking ath line) and they I get the immediate response to what I've said.  The silent PC isn't emotionless to those of us who have this playstyle, in an ingame avatar that allows us to interact directly with the companions and npcs in the game.

The voiced PC and paraphrase system in ME and DA2 push me right out of the game, and relegate me to watching a movie, one in which I just direct the main character in a general way in their conversation.  So to me If feel very clearly that I'm just watching and directing a character that isn't mine, and I'm not able to be involved directly in the game world through the medium of my PC character (as I could in the silent PC/dialogue tree system)