54 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

I recently completed a hardcore playthrough with a Sentinel, and did it in a way that most say is the "wrong" way.  But it worked awfully damned good for it being wrong.

Most Sentinel builds involve taking shotgun training on the collector ship.  I've never liked shotguns in ME2, so I just refused to do it.  I went with sniper training instead.

Details of the build:

Guardian passive specialization (10 pts)
Max out Throw to Throw field spec (10 pts)
Max out Warp to Heavy Warp spec (10 pts)
Max out Tech Armor to Assault Armor spec (10 pts)
Take Armor Piercing ammo as a bonus power, max it out to Tungsten Ammo spec (10 pts)
Put the last point anywhere you want.  Probably on Overload.

Weapons:

You start with the Shuriken SMG and Predator pistol.  If you have the DLC for it, use the Phalanx instead of the Predator for long range shooting where the Shuriken can't reach.  Switch your pistol back to the Carnifex or Predator once you get sniper training.

Acquire the Locust SMG as soon as possible.  This weapon is a beast with armor piercing ammo.  Take sniper training on the collector ship and use the Viper.

Tactics:

Most people like to use tech armor's stun ability in conjunction with CQC type play style, and thus they choose shotguns on the collector ship.  This is the conventional wisdom.  I've always liked to buck the conventional wisdom and try different things.  Usually it doesn't work well, but in this case, I think I struck gold.

Instead of taking shotgun training, take sniper training and use the Viper.  The Viper with armor piercing ammo absolutely decimates Scions and Krogan.  It eats up Vorcha pretty bad too.  Try not to think of the Viper as just a "sniper rifle".  Think of it as a battle rifle with good optics (to use a modern example, think of an M14 with a scope).  The Viper takes care of strong boss-like enemies and any long range combat.

Pair the Viper with the Locust SMG.  The Locust might be listed as an SMG, but it's really just a small assault rifle.  Again, to give a real world example, the Locust reminds me of the Colt Commando or the Korean K1 SMG.  Both of these firearms are very compact, like an SMG such as the MP5, but instead of firing relatively weak handgun ammo like most SMGs, they are chambered for the same rifle ammunition that the M16 and M4 rifles use.  Though rifle rounds lose some of their power in short barrels, they are still far more powerful than handgun rounds.  The Locust seems to be cut from this same mold.  It's small size and low recoil makes it beastly for CQC combat, but it's small size means it thermal clip only handles 20 shots before needing a reload.  Armor piercing ammo allows it to cut through most enemy soldiers in a hurry; it also kills Collectors very quickly.  The Locust effectively covers all short and medium range combat.

For powers, Warp gets used the most.  Though it's not billed as a skill to strip shields, with upgrades, it will still significantly weaken an enemy's shield at the outset of a fight.  Your Locust SMG is also effective against shields, so they shouldn't be a problem.  Warp is also a power that can arc around corners, so it's good for digging enemies out of cover.  Warp is also a boon when fighting Krogan and Vorcha since it shuts down their health regeneration.  Of course, Warp also decimates enemy biotic barriers and armor, making it very powerful against Collectors and Harbinger, and you can also do warp detonate tricks in conjunction with squadmates if you so desire.

Throw Field is much less effective on higher difficulties because husks don't insta die to it on hardcore or insanity.  However, Throw has a very quick cool down.  A good way to use it is put about 3 rounds from the Locust into a Husk and follow up with Throw for the quick kill.  As long as you don't get cornered, this works great.  Besides that, it's very good at getting charging Krogan out of your face once their armor is gone.  On insanity or hardcore, one variation of this build is to get just enough points of Throw to unlock Warp, and use the extra points to get Level 3 in overload.  Even a weak, low level throw power will still insta kill husks once their armor is gone and knock down Krogan once their armor is gone as well.

Keep Tech Armor hotkeyed.  If your shields go down, Tech Armor restores some of them.  If they go down again, you might get them half restored by the Emergency Shielding upgrade once it's available.  If they go down again, activate Tech Armor to get back to full shields.

Armor Piercing Ammo is almost necessary, IMO.  This class has no ammo powers, and I personally have always preferred getting my own ammo power so I can get the strongest specialization of it.  I always develop my squadmates ammo powers so my whole squad gets special ammo, but I like to have top end ammo for myself.  Warp Ammo is a decent alternative choice, but since you already have the Warp power to strip biotic barriers, AP ammo is probably the better choice for its much higher damage bonus.  Shredder ammo is a good choice on lower difficulties where merc troopers, Vorcha, and low level Collectors will not have armor, shields, or barriers.  However, I think AP ammo remains a better choice since it's almost as big of a bonus as shredder ammo, and it affects armor and health, instead of just armor.

Just my thoughts, but this is the most fun playthrough I've had yet.  My view of this build is that it creates the ultimate soldier.....he has a battle rifle (Viper) a CQC weapon (Locust) and special powers suited to disrupting enemy defenses, plus he's damned near indestructible.

Thoughts?

[Kronner]

I've tried that, and went back and took Shotguns again. Viper is not very ammo efficient weapon, and I don't like running around with a SMG..which is, IMHO, a support weapon.
Also, the stun wave from the AA is kinda wasted if you hang back with the SR.

AP ammo is definitely redundant, it is overrated power that adds next to nothing for 10 points. No thanks AP ammo

But it can be fun for someone else, so why not.

[termokanden]

I've had lots of success myself on insanity with both SMGs and the Viper.

I would go for the caster version of Tech Armor for long range though as Kronner suggests. It also boosts your powers.

As for ammo powers, I would probably just grab incendiary from a squadmate so I could find a fun bonus power.

[jamesp81]

Kronner wrote...

I've tried that, and went back and took Shotguns again. Viper is not very ammo efficient weapon, and I don't like running around with a SMG..which is, IMHO, a support weapon.
Also, the stun wave from the AA is kinda wasted if you hang back with the SR.

AP ammo is definitely redundant, it is overrated power that adds next to nothing for 10 points. No thanks AP ammo

But it can be fun for someone else, so why not.

Most SMGs are a support weapon...the Locust is more of a main weapon.

No sniper rifle or battle rifle in the game is "ammo efficient".  You're not using the Viper constantly....only when appropriate.

Assault Armor's stun wave when maxed out has such long damned range it usually helps anyway.  Besides, Assault Armor's stun ability is just a bonus; that power is about defense.

Tungsten Ammo is a 70% boost to damage vs health and armor and that's before upgrades.  That's not useless at all.  For me, Tungsten ammo means 3 round Locust burst then Throw to insta kill a husk.  Doesn't work without some kind of ammo power.

[jamesp81]

termokanden wrote...

I've had lots of success myself on insanity with both SMGs and the Viper.

I would go for the caster version of Tech Armor for long range though as Kronner suggests. It also boosts your powers.

As for ammo powers, I would probably just grab incendiary from a squadmate so I could find a fun bonus power.

I dunno.  I do like that Assault Armor has such a long stun range, but Power Armor might very well be a better choice.  I don't think either is a wrong choice.

I have considered running with squad incendiary from Jacob and using my bonus slot for flashbang grenade or reave.  However, I've never liked being bound to a few certain squadmates for ammo.  Personal preference, and on higher difficulties the benefits of area effect powers on husks are greatly reduced anyway.

[Kronner]

jamesp81 wrote...

Most SMGs are a support weapon...the Locust is more of a main weapon.

No sniper rifle or battle rifle in the game is "ammo efficient".  You're not using the Viper constantly....only when appropriate.

I guess it can be, it was just kinda boring for me to run around with Locust, so I had to switch to a Shotgun.

jamesp81 wrote...
Assault Armor's stun wave when maxed out has such long damned range it usually helps anyway.  Besides, Assault Armor's stun ability is just a bonus; that power is about defense.

Good point, but to make AA's effect work against more enemies, you should get as close as possible.

jamesp81 wrote...
Tungsten Ammo is a 70% boost to damage vs health and armor and that's before upgrades.  That's not useless at all.  For me, Tungsten ammo means 3 round Locust burst then Throw to insta kill a husk.  Doesn't work without some kind of ammo power.

70% of base damage of the weapon, which is maybe 15-20% overall increase if you do the math.
Even 1pt in Stasis is far better IMHO. Husks are hardly a problem, Stasis will save you a lot of time in cover against YMIRs and the like. Other suggestios: Energy Drain, Reave, Neural Shock, Flashbang..all better than AP ammo IMHO.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 avril 2011 - 06:52 .

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

I've tried that, and went back and took Shotguns again. Viper is not very ammo efficient weapon, and I don't like running around with a SMG..which is, IMHO, a support weapon.
Also, the stun wave from the AA is kinda wasted if you hang back with the SR.

AP ammo is definitely redundant, it is overrated power that adds next to nothing for 10 points. No thanks AP ammo

But it can be fun for someone else, so why not.

You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

[RGFrog]

Have to disagree with you, Kronner, on the AP ammo. If you choose sentinel, AP ammo turns the SMG into something comparable with an AR. It's the part that's lacking on an SMG. Makes the tempest a beast that just shreds through everything.

If you're not going to shotgun sentinel, AP ammo isn't a bad choice. If warp wasn't a 6 second cooldown, then I'd agree with you, Kronner. But even at 3 seconds with cd bonuses, it's still too long a wait when in those 3 seconds I could have shot the armor off, used a squadie to pull and warp bombed the target and staggered his buddies.

Personally, on Sentinel, no matter what direction I go with, I tend to stick with ED for the bonus. I always play on Insanity level so pretty much 95% of the targets have shields that I can tap to keep my assault armor well stocked.

With the massive 30% cooldown bonus, using ED instead of overload works for me.

I'm with ya, Jamesp81, I'm not a fan of the shotgun. It's pure drudgery right now going through my vanguard run...

Take a squadie with pull, or slam and warp bombs are a nice addition to th non-shotty sentinel.

I do agree with others, though. Since you are more a caster sentinel than a cqc sentinel, I'd choose power armor for the power damage bonus. This will allow you to take a couple more hits out of cover while you're sniping without your tech armor being lost completely.

[Kronner]

Stardusk78 wrote...

You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

Those three are fine IMHO. The others are pretty useless, though Warp Ammo can be good for some builds.

RGFrog wrote...

Have to disagree with you, Kronner, on
the AP ammo. If you choose sentinel, AP ammo turns the SMG into
something comparable with an AR. It's the part that's lacking on an
SMG. Makes the tempest a beast that just shreds through everything.

Have you tried it with and without the ammo? Tempest is weak against armor (compared to ARs or SRs) no matter what ammo you put on it.

[RedCaesar97]

Stardusk78 wrote...
You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

Incendiary, Cryo, and Disruptor Ammo have Crowd Control benefits that other ammo powers do not: Incendiary Ammo can panic organics, Cryo Ammo can freeze targets, and Disruptor Ammo can overload weapons and stun synthetics. Shredder, Tungsten and Warp ammo are damage-only. 

I am not saying that Shredder, Tungsten, or Warp Ammo are inherently bad. I was desparately wishing I had taken Shredder Ammo on my Sentinel and Engineer for the Arrival DLC; Overloading shields was easy, trying to kill enemies on health was a pain.

[RedCaesar97]

RGFrog wrote...

I do agree with others, though. Since you are more a caster sentinel than a cqc sentinel, I'd choose power armor for the power damage bonus. This will allow you to take a couple more hits out of cover while you're sniping without your tech armor being lost completely.

Having ran with both Power Armor and Assault Armor on a Sentinel, I feel that Assault Armor is the better choice. The extra power damage is unnecessary for removing protections from basic troops, and will not help with removing protections from more advanced enemies. And I find that the extra shield boost you gain from Assault Armor when the armor explodes actually allows you to cast more powers than Power Armor before you have to/want to reapply the armor. But that is just from my personal experience. You may have had a different experience than I did.

[Sparrow44]

Assault Armor means that even if you're hanging back from cover the instant shield recharge when AA breaks means you can stay out of cover longer to shoot/cast. Power Armor isn't inherently bad at for longer distance fights just that AA is quite OP'd that it will work just as well at range should you decide to stay there.

[jamesp81]

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

Those three are fine IMHO. The others are pretty useless, though Warp Ammo can be good for some builds.

RGFrog wrote...

Have to disagree with you, Kronner, on
the AP ammo. If you choose sentinel, AP ammo turns the SMG into
something comparable with an AR. It's the part that's lacking on an
SMG. Makes the tempest a beast that just shreds through everything.

Have you tried it with and without the ammo? Tempest is weak against armor (compared to ARs or SRs) no matter what ammo you put on it.

Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

[jamesp81]

Sparroww wrote...

Assault Armor means that even if you're hanging back from cover the instant shield recharge when AA breaks means you can stay out of cover longer to shoot/cast. Power Armor isn't inherently bad at for longer distance fights just that AA is quite OP'd that it will work just as well at range should you decide to stay there.

The shield boost is why I take AA over Power Armor.  There were multiple times even at long range on my playthrough where my shields were break three times (makes an interesting sound effect too).  Once when AA broke, once when the shield boost from AA broke, and once when my Emergency Shielding (researchable upgrade) broke.

People think that a long range Sentinel build needs the boost to powers.  But the real genius of this build is that you throw powers early in the fight, and finish with firearms, saving your power cooldown to re-establish your AA, especially in CQC.

Modifié par jamesp81, 07 avril 2011 - 09:12 .

[Kronner]

jamesp81 wrote...
Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

Yeah, I realize that. I still maintain that AP ammo is a waste. Ever since it was tried back in March or something last year, the conclusion has been pretty clear for me.

Modifié par Kronner, 07 avril 2011 - 09:08 .

[jamesp81]

Kronner wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

Yeah, I realize that. I still maintain that AP ammo is a waste. Ever since it was tried back in March or something last year, the conclusion has been pretty clear for me.

Whatever works for you, but I find that AP ammo turns the Locust from a backup weapon into a frontline killing machine.  The health of Collectors drops like a damned rock when using it against them.  Three bullets will strip the armor off of a husk.  One full magazine will strip most or all of the armor off a Krogan.  The firepower of the Locust with Tungsten ammo is similar to that of the Revenant, except of course the 20 round magazine as opposed to 80 rounds for the Revenant.

[Stardusk78]

Kronner wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

Yeah, I realize that. I still maintain that AP ammo is a waste. Ever since it was tried back in March or something last year, the conclusion has been pretty clear for me.

It's true in a sense; if you don't have any other natural ammo powers, AP ammo can be good but if you have any combination of Incenidary/Cryo and/or Disruptor you are set...

For me Inferno ammo is king...I love burning things!

[Stardusk78]

jamesp81 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

Those three are fine IMHO. The others are pretty useless, though Warp Ammo can be good for some builds.

RGFrog wrote...

Have to disagree with you, Kronner, on
the AP ammo. If you choose sentinel, AP ammo turns the SMG into
something comparable with an AR. It's the part that's lacking on an
SMG. Makes the tempest a beast that just shreds through everything.

Have you tried it with and without the ammo? Tempest is weak against armor (compared to ARs or SRs) no matter what ammo you put on it.

Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

The difference between Incendiary and AP damage wise is minimal...and it does damage over 3 seconds plus+...many an enemy has burnt to death after being ignited.

[jamesp81]

Stardusk78 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

You don't believe in Ammo powers? OK, obviously Incendiary, Cryo and Disruptor are crazy useful but what about the others?

Those three are fine IMHO. The others are pretty useless, though Warp Ammo can be good for some builds.

RGFrog wrote...

Have to disagree with you, Kronner, on
the AP ammo. If you choose sentinel, AP ammo turns the SMG into
something comparable with an AR. It's the part that's lacking on an
SMG. Makes the tempest a beast that just shreds through everything.

Have you tried it with and without the ammo? Tempest is weak against armor (compared to ARs or SRs) no matter what ammo you put on it.

Incendiary ammo isn't as powerful, damage-wise as AP ammo (although it's close).  In fact, the only thing that recommends incendiary over AP is the "organics panic" effect.  However, in return for that, it does very little damage to synthetics which are pretty much fire-proof.

The difference between Incendiary and AP damage wise is minimal...and it does damage over 3 seconds plus+...many an enemy has burnt to death after being ignited.

The panic effect is really good.  If I play a class that has Incendiary, I definitely don't take AP ammo, despite incendiary not being good against synthetics (that's what disruptor is for if you're playing soldier).  Inferno ammo really stomps husks too.

[mcsupersport]

Unless you have a roll playing issue, then Warp ammo would be better than AP just about any day. It only gives 20% less bonus which on a fully upgraded gun amounts to maybe 5% difference in damage, and it hits another defense, aka Barriers and increases even more against biotically ragdolled enemies. The only reason I didn't take it on my last infiltrator build was roll playing, didn't want a biotic power on a Tech class, and took ap instead. I would only put a ammo power on a class where I wanted the absolutely maximum weapon damage I could possibly squeeze out. The ammo powers AP, schredder and warp, are all second class powers because they will not give you near the benefits that Inferno disruptor, or cryo will. The CC of the non-bonus ammo powers are huge, when it comes to actual play.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

All I'm thinking from seeing the OP's build is, no Power Armor + Energy Drain Combo? Guns like ammo powers, but Sentinels should be able to ramp up their firepower through power spam, while using ED to break shields and replenish PA.

Although I haven't built a Gunner / Caster-type Sentinel yet, I'm sure from my Sniper Engineer that my concept is sound.

[EffectedByTheMasses]

I think this is a good build but I few points I would add:

I think that with Guardian specialization, Power armor is better for the damage boost and because no shield boost after tech armor is blown off = faster re-application of tech armor (faster cooldown) needed. On the contrary, choosing Assault Armor for a sniper sentinel would warrant the Raider passive, as it gives you a damage boost and you'll always have shields so the lesser health doesn't really matter anyways.

I also agree with Kronner in that AP Ammo's damage is negligible. I used it on my Engineer and on the Collector Assault Rifle (similar damage output and firing style to the locust) and didn't see much difference in damage from having no ammo powers whatsoever.

I would take Energy Drain as a bonus power and instead choose Jacob as a squadmate, unless you're one of those people who despises him, because he has squad incendiary ammo and can set up warp bombs. Personally I enjoy his character and don't mind using him as a squadmate.

I do like the idea of a sniper sentinel though, it would definitely have an 'indestructible' feel to it, killing enemies from afar while running no risk whatsoever, without the constant aggressiveness of a shotgun Sentinel.

[jamesp81]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

All I'm thinking from seeing the OP's build is, no Power Armor + Energy Drain Combo? Guns like ammo powers, but Sentinels should be able to ramp up their firepower through power spam, while using ED to break shields and replenish PA.

Although I haven't built a Gunner / Caster-type Sentinel yet, I'm sure from my Sniper Engineer that my concept is sound.

You can't rely too heavily on powers on hardcore and insanity mode.  You're going to spend a lot of your cooldowns reactivating tech/assault armor.

[jamesp81]

mcsupersport wrote...

Unless you have a roll playing issue, then Warp ammo would be better than AP just about any day. It only gives 20% less bonus which on a fully upgraded gun amounts to maybe 5% difference in damage, and it hits another defense, aka Barriers and increases even more against biotically ragdolled enemies. The only reason I didn't take it on my last infiltrator build was roll playing, didn't want a biotic power on a Tech class, and took ap instead. I would only put a ammo power on a class where I wanted the absolutely maximum weapon damage I could possibly squeeze out. The ammo powers AP, schredder and warp, are all second class powers because they will not give you near the benefits that Inferno disruptor, or cryo will. The CC of the non-bonus ammo powers are huge, when it comes to actual play.

True, but sentinel doesn't get any of those.

[jamesp81]

BTW, I'm curious about some the damage math being done here. Tungsten ammo is +70% against health and armor. Say you have the 50% assault rifle damage upgrades. How does this stuff figure? Is it a total 120% boost against health and armor?

Modifié par jamesp81, 07 avril 2011 - 11:50 .