54 réponses à ce sujet

[aimlessgun]

ViolentCone wrote...

Hmm. Why use ED when you *do* want the tech armor to be blown off? seems a bit redundant eh?

Yeah...I just play my Sentinel by running around shooting people in the face while my Tech Armor explodes constantly. I barely cast anything but Tech Armor, so I took an ammo power.

Maybe this is a dumb way to play? But hell, it seems to work well enough.

[Bozorgmehr]

RGFrog wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Locust does 25 dmg and receives a 1.25 multiplier against all defenses (an additional 1.5 x against shield/barrier can be researched), there are 6 SMG upgrades available.

Using Tungsten Ammo will only add 25 * .7 = 17.5 dmg during the entire game, it does not improve at all. This means that without any upgrades Tungsten Ammo will add 17.5 dmg to 25 * 1.25 = 31.25 > total damage = 31.5 + 17.5 = 48 damage (that's an extra 52%). Now we add upgrades 6/6:

Damage against armor: (25 * 1.6) * 1.25 = 50 damage per shot without Tungsten, Tungsten will add 17.5 to total 67.5 damage (that's 35 % extra damage).

The maths are a bit off, Boz. ALL percentages are added together first. So, in your example above vs. armor using Tungsten, 6/6 upgrades, and including the Locust bonus vs. armor it should read like this:
 
25 + (60% + 25% + 70%) = 25 + 155% = 63.75 points per round hitting armor.

It's not off enough to change the argument, but it's a bit less...

The math I use has been confirmed by the devs. All upgrades are added first (weapon upgrades, bonus passive, Miranda and gear), this number is multiplied by the modifiers weapons have against certain defenses, multiplied again when you're at close range (distance multiplier) and again (headshots).

Ammo power damage is always the same, in this example 70% of Locust's base damage without upgrades, bonuses and gear (only power damage boosting gear like the BDA increases ammo power percentage) = 17.5 this number does not change, ever, and it's added to the 'normal' weapon damage (which does increase when researching upgrades).

Eric ****nan wrote...

Warp ammo, like all other ammo powers, uses the weapon's base damage to calculate the bonus. They never take any weapon bonuses into account.

This means that when you're using warp ammo on a ragdolled target the effect is doubled 100 instead of 50 % (base) damage increase. In our Locust example it is 25, this number is added to the damage the Locust does with all upgrades and other bonuses * 2 (double weapon damage against ragdolled targets). This results in Heavy Warp Ammo (on ragdolled target) using a upgraded weapon doesn't add 100% damage, but something like 30 %.

Bottom line is, Ammo Powers are becoming redundant fast when you've researched a couple upgrades, only the CC effects are nice, extra damage is too small to make a real difference.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Bottom line is, Ammo Powers are becoming redundant fast when you've researched a couple upgrades, only the CC effects are nice, extra damage is too small to make a real difference.

Pretty much.
But people still don't relize how useless ammos are, for most builds at least.

I blame ME2 devs - they did a poor job in this area.

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, I do like the secondary effects though. I'll hope for two things:

Make ammo equipment (instead of an ability), add more ammo types with more and different effects (like it was in ME1) - Ammo that bypasses shields, set enemies aflame, knocks them down, chemical rounds etc.

When weapon damage remains as good as it is now (ME2) there isn't much need to increase damage further (maybe cap additional ammo damage at ~20-30 %, but when going for + dmg you don't get secondary effects - kinda like AP ammo in ME2)

This would add more tactical depth to ammo, making fights against certain enemies a lot easier but not by adding extra damage, but through effects. I think this can work well combined with the announced weapon modding option in ME3 (heatsink needed to counter explosive rounds extra heat, but it will reduce RoF - for example) I really liked experimenting with different setups in ME1.

[termokanden]

They aren't useless at all. But they are not worth putting in your build as a bonus power when there are so many other good options.

The exception to this is perhaps in infiltrator that likes sniping. There is a part of the game where you are JUST around the point where you can one-shot without Cloak. There it's certainly nice to have an ammo power like Warp Ammo. But then later with more damage upgrades, it might become less useful again.

Modifié par termokanden, 09 avril 2011 - 11:20 .