159 réponses à ce sujet

[ItsToofy]

DraCZeQQ wrote...
Yea but Vampire: Bloodlines is one of the best RPG  and DA2 is just attempt of EA to see what Bioware fans are able to digest and still buy the game ...

[Kimberly Shaw]

I whipped up an idea on another forum thread in about 10 minutes. To me, the best most plausible way to explain the Apostate freedom in Acts 1 and 2 would be to get the Grand Cleric's blessing for your freedom. To me, this would be a main plot non-skippable quest in Act 1's opening parts tied to your last "run" as a smuggler or mercenary where you uncover/stop a major plot against the chantry (mass poisoning perhaps?).

Because you saved the chantry and the Grand Cleric from certain death, she stays Meredith's hand from putting the Mage and/or Bethany in the Circle as long as you agree to go through the Harrowing first. Or Bethany goes through it if you're not a mage. Then they grudgingly let you go, but tell you to watch your back and if they even sniff blood magic around you, you're off to the Circle.

It's not perfect, but it's loads better than COMPLETELY IGNORNING THE IN GAME LOGIC/LORE.

[Lux]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Merkar wrote...

Hawke being a licensed "free" mage due to being naturally impervious to spirit domination (a rare occurrence in the world of Thedas) would've made more sense than to ignore the established lore.

Blood mage Merrill? Rogue GW Anders? ... not to mention this kind of "lore" sounds really cheesy and i must agree with Bioware decision here "better to hope no one will notice, then announce it in cheesy way" =)

Anders is a Grey Warden; Merril could be Hawke's reponsibility under the "free mage" law which allows that to happen to a very limited degree (let's say that if Merril would become an abomination, that's a death sentence to Hawke)...

My point is that they could've gotten creative and keep consistency to their game world, not make a mockery of it.

[Tirigon]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

I was never a fan of the attacks in BG2. It just kind of felt like the Cowled wizards were really weak, since they couldn't throw everything they had to catch the "apostate". The idea was good, but I never really liked it.

In DA2, it would've been the same. Encounters just for encounters sake would've been pointless. If you had been revealed as an apostate to the point of templars attacking you randomly, there's no way you could have an estate. The templars would've seized it. And killed you. I don't believe for a second that Hawke could survive the onslaught of the entire templar order in Kirkwall.

Lol of course he can. Unless he´s too drunk to press a button, that is, but since he can´t drink that´s unlikely to happen.
:devil:

Other than that, thouh, I agree with your post.

Nevertheless there SHOULD have been encounters and reactions to you being a mage.
There even were some, very few ones - e.g. Varric explaining that the templars won´t be able to approach you if you have your mansion, the smugglers / mercenaries saying they´ll protect you of them and Meredith in Act 2 saying that "for now" she will allow your use of magic due to you having a common goal.
All that would have been necessary is extending these to all templars.

[DraCZeQQ]

Tirigon wrote...

There even were some, very few ones - e.g. Varric explaining that the templars won´t be able to approach you if you have your mansion, the smugglers / mercenaries saying they´ll protect you of them and Meredith in Act 3 saying that "for now" she will allow your use of magic due to you having a common goal.
All that would have been necessary is extending these to all templars.

Yea this dialog is really funny played as "renegade" (paraphrased):

Meredith: I need you to locate 3 mages
Hawke: Im not going to help templars
Meredith: Dont forget you are an apostate!
Hawke: and?
Meredith: please just go see for yourself please
Hawke: no!
Meredith: I still copied it to your journal and started the quest, gl ...

[Tirigon]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

There even were some, very few ones - e.g. Varric explaining that the templars won´t be able to approach you if you have your mansion, the smugglers / mercenaries saying they´ll protect you of them and Meredith in Act 3 saying that "for now" she will allow your use of magic due to you having a common goal.
All that would have been necessary is extending these to all templars.

Yea this dialog is really funny played as "renegade" (paraphrased):

Meredith: I need you to locate 3 mages
Hawke: Im not going to help templars
Meredith: Dont forget you are an apostate!
Hawke: and?
Meredith: please just go see for yourself please
Hawke: no!
Meredith: I still copied it to your journal and started the quest, gl ...

Lol... actually I was referring to when you fight the only people who treat mages even worse than the templars do and she saves your ass:)

[wowpwnslol]

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

[Wishpig]

I love Varric and all...

But Korgan Bloodaxe beats Varric to the edge of death (with bianca no less)... then force feeds Varric piece by piece to Fenris before strangling the elf to death with rope made of Leliana's tendons.

Then he goes out and grabs a beer with Oghren and everyone lives happily ever after.

Cool story, right bro?

In short BG2 is king!

Modifié par Wishpig, 08 avril 2011 - 04:34 .

[Any0day]

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding how difficult it is to program a game, and by difficult I mean easier.

John Romero, creator of Wolfenstien 3d and the 1st person shooter genre, programmed many of his first games in assembly language. It took 5 people to not only invent a new genre, but come up with the most critically acclaimed game every to exist.

I'm not much of a game developer, but I'm an experienced computer programmer and I can tell you - with the resources out today people are can call themselves video game developers without knowing a singe line of code. The only people that really need to know code are the actual coders, but I'm not including scripting in that category - just engine design. So, to say it's hard to script something like the cowled wizards is just really funny to me when you look at the grand scheme of things. I think honestly, things as a whole have gotten easier on a programming level.

When you read books like Half Life: Raising the Bar, it tells you how there were only a small handful of people responsible for creating Half Life. They talk about how it became their lives, their obsession; they worked day and night for little pay on the hope that they could create something awesome and they wanted to revolutionize the game industry.

I think this honestly leads me to my next point: when you have huge development teams, it can quickly cease to be a creative team and easily become a corporate one. I have a feeling this will ultimately lead us to the next video game crash - I mean on average; I'm buying less and less games a year just because creativity is really sagging.

[Sabriana]

They don't need to "go" for realism. They need to stick to their own bloody backstory and lore. A backstory they created. A lore they created. Not us. We just get slapped over the head with them kicking their own creation to its knees, melodramatically speaking.

Most all games have not-so-ordinary PC's. Vampire, Werewolves, whathaveyou. Most of the time you can play a PC that chooses to be one of those things. But with the advantages come the disadvantages. Yes, a vampire is stronger/immune/etc., but guards/common-folk/whatever will execute you, arrest you, or hate you and try to beat you with a pitch-fork

[abaris]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Not the point: The fundamental question remains - why create an atmosphere and an environment if you're determined not to use your own creation? That's the letdown, create an idea (a good one at that), but sacrifice it on the altar of "no can do" immediately.

[ItsToofy]

Sabriana wrote...

They don't need to "go" for realism. They need to stick to their own bloody backstory and lore. A backstory they created. A lore they created. Not us. We just get slapped over the head with them kicking their own creation to its knees, melodramatically speaking.

Most all games have not-so-ordinary PC's. Vampire, Werewolves, whathaveyou. Most of the time you can play a PC that chooses to be one of those things. But with the advantages come the disadvantages. Yes, a vampire is stronger/immune/etc., but guards/common-folk/whatever will execute you, arrest you, or hate you and try to beat you with a pitch-fork

Or they can go the Twilight route, as if they didn't already, and just have you not burst into flames during sunlight..

[Sabriana]

ItsToofy wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

They don't need to "go" for realism. They need to stick to their own bloody backstory and lore. A backstory they created. A lore they created. Not us. We just get slapped over the head with them kicking their own creation to its knees, melodramatically speaking.

Most all games have not-so-ordinary PC's. Vampire, Werewolves, whathaveyou. Most of the time you can play a PC that chooses to be one of those things. But with the advantages come the disadvantages. Yes, a vampire is stronger/immune/etc., but guards/common-folk/whatever will execute you, arrest you, or hate you and try to beat you with a pitch-fork

Or they can go the Twilight route, as if they didn't already, and just have you not burst into flames during sunlight..

Oh ye gods. You said Twilight.

Now I have to go out and get drunk. I hope you're happy

[ItsToofy]

Sabriana wrote...

ItsToofy wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

They don't need to "go" for realism. They need to stick to their own bloody backstory and lore. A backstory they created. A lore they created. Not us. We just get slapped over the head with them kicking their own creation to its knees, melodramatically speaking.

Most all games have not-so-ordinary PC's. Vampire, Werewolves, whathaveyou. Most of the time you can play a PC that chooses to be one of those things. But with the advantages come the disadvantages. Yes, a vampire is stronger/immune/etc., but guards/common-folk/whatever will execute you, arrest you, or hate you and try to beat you with a pitch-fork

Or they can go the Twilight route, as if they didn't already, and just have you not burst into flames during sunlight..

Oh ye gods. You said Twilight.

Now I have to go out and get drunk. I hope you're happy

Well I'm sure you'd have more fun drinking so yes, I am happy. Alcohol for everyone!

[AlanC9]

abaris wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Not the point: The fundamental question remains - why create an atmosphere and an environment if you're determined not to use your own creation? That's the letdown, create an idea (a good one at that), but sacrifice it on the altar of "no can do" immediately.

But the other fundamental question is how to implement this while keeping playing as a mage fun.

[abaris]

AlanC9 wrote...

But the other fundamental question is how to implement this while keeping playing as a mage fun.

So don't create that kind of environment. They haven't been forced at gunpoint to dig their storyhole after all.

[Tirigon]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Like I said before: The guy who thought it was a good idea to start a game by you going to KIRKWALL, even though either the player or Bethany is an apostate, should get fired.

[Warheadz]

Tirigon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Like I said before: The guy who thought it was a good idea to start a game by you going to KIRKWALL, even though either the player or Bethany is an apostate, should get fired.

Kirkwall wasn't even an interesting place. I understand they wanted to do this templar vs. mage thingy, but they didnt even do it well in the end. Surely there could have been a lot more interesting places to go. I mean, why Free Marches? Who the hell wants to go to Free Marches?

[Sabriana]

Warheadz wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Like I said before: The guy who thought it was a good idea to start a game by you going to KIRKWALL, even though either the player or Bethany is an apostate, should get fired.

Kirkwall wasn't even an interesting place. I understand they wanted to do this templar vs. mage thingy, but they didnt even do it well in the end. Surely there could have been a lot more interesting places to go. I mean, why Free Marches? Who the hell wants to go to Free Marches?

Well, mother does. Although why she would insist on leading daughter Bethany and/or PC mage into Templar heaven after spending her whole life worrying, running, hiding, and more worrying about Bethany and/or the PC being a mage is quite odd.

[neppakyo]

Sabriana wrote...

Well, mother does. Although why she would insist on leading daughter Bethany and/or PC mage into Templar heaven after spending her whole life worrying, running, hiding, and more worrying about Bethany and/or the PC being a mage is quite odd.

Oh yeah, thats another thing that I couldn't put my finger on. hawkey's mom ran away from kirkwall with hawkey's father cause he was a mage, and returning was pretty silly.

btw, for some odd reason, I keep adding onto your name "The teenage witch" heh.

[Fieryeel]

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Bioware could have done it intelligently by having quests or cutscenes at least acknowledge it.

As said earlier, there could even be a minor cutscene where a high ranking templar approaches u, and u either bribe him, or help him with a quest, and in return, he uses his rank and influence to turn the templar's attention away from you.

There's a dozen ways in which an explanation could be provided for you being allowed to cast magic and run free, but no Bioware/EA just chose to ignore the whole thing.

[ItsToofy]

Fieryeel wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

I wonder how people would react if Bioware went for realism.

Templar sees you use magic. Templar tries to arrest you. You kill templar. Sometime later, you're ambushed again and again by entire groups of templar hunters. Eventually, after dying 100 times, you either stop playing the game or making a different class.

Bioware could have done it intelligently by having quests or cutscenes at least acknowledge it.

As said earlier, there could even be a minor cutscene where a high ranking templar approaches u, and u either bribe him, or help him with a quest, and in return, he uses his rank and influence to turn the templar's attention away from you.

There's a dozen ways in which an explanation could be provided for you being allowed to cast magic and run free, but no Bioware/EA just chose to ignore the whole thing.

Templar: Hey! That mage over there is using magic, get'm!
Templar 2: Wait, good ser knight, have you ever heard of deus ex machina?
Templar: Deus what?
Templar 2: Here's a cookie, forget you saw anything.
Templar: Ooo, I like cookies. nomnom

[Tirigon]

neppakyo wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Well, mother does. Although why she would insist on leading daughter Bethany and/or PC mage into Templar heaven after spending her whole life worrying, running, hiding, and more worrying about Bethany and/or the PC being a mage is quite odd.

Oh yeah, thats another thing that I couldn't put my finger on. hawkey's mom ran away from kirkwall with hawkey's father cause he was a mage, and returning was pretty silly.

Well I suppose it´s because Leandra is pretty GODDAMN STUPID. Seriously<_<

What I find odd is that her children just run along. If I was Mage Hawke I´d tell her that i´d rather stay with the Darkspawn than go into the Templar Main Hive in Thedas:ph34r:

[Serpieri Nei]

astrallite wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

snip

You need a job in the Bioware PR department so Matt Laidlaw doesn't need to do interviews with the journalists.

Aveline seems to be doing a horrible job as the Guard Captain. Or maybe that guard is 2 days away from retirement.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Anders is a Grey Warden; Merril could be Hawke's reponsibility under the "free mage" law which allows that to happen to a very limited degree (let's say that if Merril would become an abomination, that's a death sentence to Hawke)...

My point is that they could've gotten creative and keep consistency to their game world, not make a mockery of it.

Was a Grey Warden. Ander is not a GW anymore. He killed a bunch of htem, remember?
No immunity for him.

And Merrill? BLOOD MAGE. As long as she keeps it hidden, they MIGHT let her under Hawks oversight.

And Cullen or Trask would be the best two templars to have vouch for Hawke..Perhaps even Hawke being their responsibility.