25 réponses à ce sujet

[ZtalkerRM]

Since I've finished DA:2 I have been replaying DA:O: Awakenings and planning on playing through the other DLC to create a 'perfect save' for another DA:2 playthrough. I did enjoy DA:2, the way the story is told does appeal to me and I do like some party members over those in DA:O.

The thing is though...when I replay the 'old' game I get the feeling the Warden can out him/herself more then Hawke can. The best example is the quest in which Hawke loses Liandra, compared to the Urn of Sacred Ashes questchain in DA:O.

The comparison:
DA:O Urn chain
1-You can 'force' your way into Genitivi's room, eventually finding a body (Agressive way)
 -You can search for clues, leading you to lake Callenhad  (Cunning way)
2-Same for the village of Haven. You can go investigate, or storm in.
3-During the chain, you can kill, manipulate or support the cult, Genitivi and gain rewards depending on the choices. The way of preserving the 'holy secret' (Throwing a knife) is particulary awesome in terms of 'outing.'
Your party members can even step in by your actions!


DA:2  All that Remains
1-Your mother disappears, not matter what you do and it starts the same way.
2-You will calmly search for your mothers track.
3-The only difference is that you can get help from the guy you encountered in the mansion before.
You calmly dispatch the boss and that's it. No throwing knifes at him in a fit of rage. No betraying the other guy to try and save your mother. Even the way it all ends...the 'life goes on' thing is bothering me. Even a good natured Hawke should out himself by grabbing the boss by the throat and threatening him to heal his mother.

This goes for the disappearance of Bethany too. It goes so...calmly in the Deep Roads. There should be swearing, hopelessness, like that feeling you get in the finale of DA:O when you see Riordan fall to his death and see the Warden's face turn grim. Knowing sh*t is about to hit the medieval fantasy fan and he or Allistair is about to die.

Just something that bothered me...
If you look at Varric, he shows clear emotions about his Brother. Regret, anger, everything. He even threats to kill him! And Hawke...stays a robot.
 

[Forst1999]

I found my Hawke sounded pretty desperate during the search for Leandra. If you go get the help of the blood mage DuPuis instead of searching for clues, that is a desperate measure. And examinating the blood prints in the foundry nearly caused my LadyHawke to panic. Apologizing to Leandra for failing her was also pretty emotional. To me it was one of the best examples of the protagonist being emotional.
For sure, the Ashes quest offers lots more of choices, but i never perceived my warden as anything more than a robot i had to project emotions to. Funny how our perception of this is completly contrary.

[Anariel Theirin]

I agree in that I wanted more emotion from my Hawke during "All That Remains." Her voice did sound panicked during the search for her mother, but the goodbye scene didn't feel adequate to me. I thought Merrill sounded more distraught when Pol died than Hawke did during her own mother's death. Other than that, I did like the handling of that scene. Still, I felt a disconnect of emotion in general from the mother, so part of this could be my own projecting.

Strangely enough, even though you hardly know Riordan when he dies, I felt a brotherhood with him. I think I was just incredibly fond of the whole Gray Wardens thing, and felt an immediate kinship with him. When he died, I was really sad, even though I was expecting it. When Leandra died, I was like "Hmm. Okay then." And I swear I'm not heartless! I actually cried when Pol and Marethari died, and I think it was a comment on how attached I felt to these characters, as well as the superb voice acting of Merrill's.

[Maverick827]

Really? The scene after All That Remains when Gamlen visits you was one of my favorite. He asks you "why her," why did it have to be Leandra?

You are given only two choices, but they are so polarizing that it really took me aback when I had to choose. You can say "She looked like someone, " attempting to explain and rationalize the ordeal, or you can say "It doesn't matter." For just two responses, I thought this was quite a complex look into the way we deal with grief.

I thought about which I wanted to choose, and I first moused over "She looked like someone," but then I thought "no, his mother just died; he's clearly still grieving, sitting sullen by the fireplace. He wouldn't care right now, it would matter why she died - he's simply too defeated to think about things like that right now."

So, obviously, I chose the second option, and then I sat back and marveled at the thought process which resulted from merely one choice between two options. I don't care so much that there are less outcomes in the game because it's a character-driven story. I define the character - how he acts, what he feels - but I can't control the universe, and I cannot see the future. This is a very real and humbling way to tell a story in my opinion. The Warden was kind of a Mary Sue at times, but Hawk, despite being seemingly pre-ordained to be Champion, is anything but.

[Patriciachr34]

I have to agree with Forst. Hawke is very frantic when searching for her mother, and quite devastated by her death. Between this and killing her sister Bethany in the Deep Roads, Hawke is showing plenty of range.

[ReallyRue]

I also thought that entire quest seemed emotional, especially in the build up before you reach Quentin and Leandra. I was starting to feel tense and panicked myself at the thought of what would be waiting at the end. That quest and associated cutscenes were the most emotional (and best) part of the game to me.

[PsychoBlonde]

I personally thought Hawke was TOO emotional during the search for Leandra--but I didn't connect with Leandra at all and I have no close connection with any of my family members, so I certainly wouldn't be having hysterics in the same situation. "LOOK MORE BLOOD!!!"

But I have a weird personality, so I don't generally expect other people to act like this. It's just when I'm playing someone in a game, to suddenly have the devs seize control of that person and apply emotions that I don't and wouldn't feel is a bit jarring. But I get that in snippets throughout the game, so I suppose it's no big for me.

It was less jarring with the Warden because the Warden is a mute robot, sure . . . but the Warden certainly doesn't "out" emotions better than Hawke does.

[Torax]

I think All That Remains should be up there with The Long Road for 2 of the best emotional quests I've seen in a while. The writers put a bit of work into it. I also like how it's one of the only times Gamlen even shows that he cared about anyone. The fact that it took me 3 days before it hit me that I finally got over her death. It took me that long and I'm not afraid to say it. The writers, voice artists & animators did an amazing job.

[Corker]

ReallyRue wrote...

I also thought that entire quest seemed emotional, especially in the build up before you reach Quentin and Leandra. I was starting to feel tense and panicked myself at the thought of what would be waiting at the end.

I thought it was rather too bad that they undercut that sense of urgency by putting crates/barrels/etc of loot en route.  "Mom!  Mom!  Where are yo--- hey, what's in here?  Enaslin armor, sweet -- Mom!"

I suppose one can say, "You don't have to stop to loot the placeables," and that's true.  But it'd be better if I didn't have to stop and think about mechanics vs. emotion at that particular point. 

[Torax]

Corker wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

I also thought that entire quest seemed emotional, especially in the build up before you reach Quentin and Leandra. I was starting to feel tense and panicked myself at the thought of what would be waiting at the end.

I thought it was rather too bad that they undercut that sense of urgency by putting crates/barrels/etc of loot en route.  "Mom!  Mom!  Where are yo--- hey, what's in here?  Enaslin armor, sweet -- Mom!"

I suppose one can say, "You don't have to stop to loot the placeables," and that's true.  But it'd be better if I didn't have to stop and think about mechanics vs. emotion at that particular point. 

I just assumed those barrels and crates were for the "Oooh Shineys" crowd.

[Corker]

I'm pretty sure there was a piece of the rogue armor set for Act 2 in one of them. Which is a step above the usual moth-eaten scarves.

[Torax]

Corker wrote...

I'm pretty sure there was a piece of the rogue armor set for Act 2 in one of them. Which is a step above the usual moth-eaten scarves.

No set pieces in all that remains anyway. I've never looted armor in there and I play rogues the most.

[LT123]

The voice acting for Gamlen was awesome in the scene back at the estate. I agree about the loot undercutting the sense of urgency. Corker's right about the Ensalin armor-I remember that because I was looking for pieces of it.

[bleetman]

Torax wrote...

Corker wrote...

I'm pretty sure there was a piece of the rogue armor set for Act 2 in one of them. Which is a step above the usual moth-eaten scarves.

No set pieces in all that remains anyway. I've never looted armor in there and I play rogues the most.

These.

[Torax]

bleetman wrote...

Torax wrote...

Corker wrote...

I'm pretty sure there was a piece of the rogue armor set for Act 2 in one of them. Which is a step above the usual moth-eaten scarves.

No set pieces in all that remains anyway. I've never looted armor in there and I play rogues the most.

These.

I stand corrected. That is what happens when you start playing with Champion armor from default that grows with you. Heh.

[Miashi]

This is one thing that I've been struggling with as well. Hawke is way too stoic during crisis. I can understand a guy like Shepard, but even Shepard loses his cool sometimes and gets really pissed.

The voice emotion carried by Hawke that knows very well his mother is being held by a murderer is not strong enough. I mean damn, if I can't find my house keys within 10 minutes I'm on the verge of panic. There was no feeling of urgency or panic in Hawke's voice. He sounded a bit disturbed, but not more.

And if I had been Hawke, I would've grabbed the urchin by his neck when he started being demanding. Screw you Gamlen.

And this
"I thought Merrill sounded more distraught when Pol died than Hawke did during her own mother's death."
I agree a billion percent.

Modifié par Miashi, 07 avril 2011 - 11:24 .

[Sesshomaru47]

My Hawke sounded upset following the trail. Also I got help from Gasgard, let him live so that I could go back and torture him with the help of Fenris and then stab him with my murder knife. I did this, then in Act III he sent me a letter thanking me for showing mercy and letting him live. Maybe the knife was blunt..As for your companions, maybe they just don't care...

[brightblueink]

Corker wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

I also thought that entire quest seemed emotional, especially in the build up before you reach Quentin and Leandra. I was starting to feel tense and panicked myself at the thought of what would be waiting at the end.

I thought it was rather too bad that they undercut that sense of urgency by putting crates/barrels/etc of loot en route.  "Mom!  Mom!  Where are yo--- hey, what's in here?  Enaslin armor, sweet -- Mom!"

I suppose one can say, "You don't have to stop to loot the placeables," and that's true.  But it'd be better if I didn't have to stop and think about mechanics vs. emotion at that particular point. 

The way I rationalized the looting during that scene was that my Hawke was so panicked and desperate to find ANYTHING that would help her was that she started digging through the barrels looking for some sort of clue. She's already delt with this serial killer before and he's gotten away from her TWICE, with very little evidence left behind. There's also plenty of moments in-game where looting stuff gives your Hawke an advantage or a key to continue on. Sure, it's maybe taking time away from her search, but she wasn't thinking rationally. She was only thinking "there must be something here that will help me find her and/or stop him" so she ruthlessly ransacked all of the barrels of junk.

[RazorrX]

While I personally never really got close to Mamma Hawke (I fully blame her for me being in Kirkwall in the first place), that quest was IMO one of the best in the game. The aftermath scene at your home was awesomely done. EVEN if I could have gone back and changed things to be different, I do not think I would have, because of how well done it was.

[ZtalkerRM]

Hmmm.
I see a patern here. The people who were playing with a female Hawke seem to have had a different experience then male Hawke players.

I do agree the scene afterwards was good. I didn't say otherwise.
The way Gamlen realised everything he ever loved was gone made me feel quite motivated to let him reconnect with his daughter. That scene was good.

But, again, the outing of GAMLEN's emotions was good.

I would've just liked some options too...express yourself more physically. The agressive-ish response in Act 3 to Anders (You've got BLOOD on your hands!) was awesome in terms of voice and animation.
Bashing that Quinten guy in the face, threatening him...or just comfort Leandra more, seeing Hawke break down.

[Knightly_BW]

Oh I better drop my opinion as well.

First of all what bugging me about All remains is, Hawke's response to white lillies. That line always makes me think his mother has a bad habit of being abducted by serial killers often. I don't remember exact lines but feeling I get from that talk is "Oh I remember a serial killer sending white lillies to his victims. Pfft mother is one of them. What a big deal"

As I am playing a female Hawk now I can say while blood trailing Lady Hawke is way much better than her male counterpart on passing the urgency/panic/desperate feeling to player.

There are some bits I think devs didn't notice but make me feel unattached to game. Like;
- you suppose to act quickly when Orsino creates a distraction for Qunari blocking the castle enterance. Well Orsino and Qunari doing a great job for passing that feeling. Orsino nods to Hawke and pulls Qunari further away. In this rush/urgency you suppose Hawke would run to the gates but nope... he walks like he is taking a moonlite stroll with his sweetheart. This scene really ruins well chained events for me.

On the other hand my current run is a pro-mage (It is quite amusing that even on my 5th run I am seeing new things, get new feelings from game) and after Meredith rescued Hawke from Seerebaas, I red replied her and heard her Apostate talk for the first time. Both voice acting and cinematics gave me shivers, I knew how the game progress but then for that conversation I really felt Meredith would execute me after cut scene.

[Fieryeel]

I like how Gamlen acted during All That Remains, but I felt disconnected to how Hawke behaved before his/her dying mother, and the behavior afterwards.

Hawke sounded sad as he/she talked to mom, but not sad enough, and no crying? Viscount's son-death scene was done well, as he was quite clearly sobbing and trembling as he held his son's body. Where's Hawke crying in anguish?

I mean...no wake? No funeral? No sobbing Hawke lying flowers before mom's grave, then collapsing out of grieve, and my Love Interest supporting me, then pulling me to a side and embracing me? What's the deal with me not even being able to hug my Love Interest for comfort?

Maybe it's because I 've seen upclose the reaction of my classmate who upon receiving a phone call informing her of the loss of her beloved aunt that increases my expectations. My classmate practically screamed and then started to sob uncontrollably, and her girlfriends and teacher had to gently bring her out of the class.

Modifié par Fieryeel, 08 avril 2011 - 12:49 .

[Anariel Theirin]

I agree with what everyone is saying about how Hawke acts during the aftermath of the quest, back at the house with Gamlen. At that point, I found it understandable that Hawke had gone into a sense of shock, and credited that for the emotionless feel I got from her. But Gamlen showed a lot more emotion than Hawke did, for sure. My gripe isn't with the writing here, it's with the voice acting.

On a side note, I just played this part through for the second time last night, and I got the cutscene with Aveline after, where she talks about her father's death. I didn't get this the first time through (I think it has something to do with whether or not she was in your party?), and I have to give major props to the writers for Aveline's story. Maybe it's just because I'm a bit of a Daddy's girl myself, but it made me cry. I thought it was a beautiful way to bring some kind of feeling of closure to the events in "All That Remains", having Hawke and Aveline have a drink together for the ones they've lost. But still, when I had my Hawke say "My mother is dead. My heart is broken." There was just no emotion in her voice there either. I usually liked Hawke's voice actress, but I really felt she did a poor job of expressing sorrow.

[DA_GamerGal]

ZtalkerRM wrote...

Just something that bothered me...
If you look at Varric, he shows clear emotions about his Brother. Regret, anger, everything. He even threats to kill him! And Hawke...stays a robot.
 

This bothered me as well. I am on my 4th play-through as female Hawk and I still get bothered by the lack of Hawk's emotion when she holds her mother in her arms and then again back at the manor with Gamlen.  At the very least Hawk's voice should sound like she's holding back tears... after all, everything Hawk has done up to this point was for her family... to make sure that they were taken care of... at least the members that were left. I expected red-rimmed eyes and a facial expression that looked as if she had been crying- either in sadness or rage. I felt more emotion at Hawk's mother's passing then my Hawk seemed to! All That Remains, causes me to tear up everytime.

[DA_GamerGal]

Anariel Theirin wrote...

 But still, when I had my Hawke say "My mother is dead. My heart is broken." There was just no emotion in her voice there either. I usually liked Hawke's voice actress, but I really felt she did a poor job of expressing sorrow.

I agree with you. Just because Hawk is a strong female character that can fight and hold her own aginst all manner of monsters, hoodlums and evil people, doesn't mean she can't have a soft side and not be afraid to show it. Yes, she had to shoulder a lot of responsibilites and a lot of people's lives depended on her actions the choices she made daily, so she had to have an inner resolve and iron will to be able to get through everything without going postal on everyone... but my Hawk would never lose her gentler side and would always show that she cared deeply for the wellfare of her family, companions and LI. She would never be afraid to show all her emotions. I too, really liked the VA, but it/she  was lacking when it/she came to emoting sadness and great sorrow.

But I stll love all my Hawks.