1072 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

tmp7704 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Wrong.  It's a fact.  The Dalish have existed in their current form for 700 years or so.  Most nations in Thedas can't boast of that!  Before then, the Kdm of the Dales was stable for three centuris prior to that and ceased to exist only because it was destroyed by an Exalted March of very questionable legality.

Keep on mind the elves of old were supposed to have much longer lifespan and --as side-effect-- their lives and decision-making was done at much slower pace than what's normal for humans. In other words, 100 years of elf lifestyle could easily be equivalent of just 10-20 years of human time, if that.

"Stable existence for 700 years" doesn't look as that much of a feat in these conditions.

Post Tevinter Slave elves don't seem to have a significanty (if any) longer lifespan than anyone else.  The Dalish claim that with enough isolation, their lifepands are slowly increasing but that may be Dalish propoganda.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Dales may have been a stable society, but the Chantry did not think so. The Dalish created unrest amongst the rest of Thedas, and sacked Val Royeaux.

You really believe that, don't you? From the Pro-Chanry side of the table? The Elves had been given a new homeland for helping Andraste, where they were working to rebuild everything. There is no reason that they would've sacked Val Royeaux when they were in no condition to.

Especially when the Chantry now calls anyone who wants to believe in a different religion or ideology a "heathen". It's "Believe in the Maker or we'll kill you and you'll live in damnation!" Sounds like a collective hive mind religion to me.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 avril 2011 - 12:10 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Wrong.  It's a fact.  The Dalish have existed in their current form for 700 years or so.  Most nations in Thedas can't boast of that!  Before then, the Kdm of the Dales was stable for three centuris prior to that and ceased to exist only because it was destroyed by an Exalted March of very questionable legality.

Keep on mind the elves of old were supposed to have much longer lifespan and --as side-effect-- their lives and decision-making was done at much slower pace than what's normal for humans. In other words, 100 years of elf lifestyle could easily be equivalent of just 10-20 years of human time, if that.

"Stable existence for 700 years" doesn't look as that much of a feat in these conditions.

They also slept a lot apparently. So they were immortal, slept a lot, were slow and had no competitors. Yes, not that impressive.

And then they are surprised how their lazy selves were crushed.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 avril 2011 - 12:10 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Can I have the source for your claim that the city of Arlathan lived in "harmony" with magic? The only thing we have about Arlathan is a bunch of collected propaganda from the Dalish, claiming their ancient race was "oh so magnificent". I'm willing to bet that it was just as much of a mage tyranny as Tevinter is now.

They were a powerful empire across Thedas that took the full effort of the Imperium to finally conquer and the Magisters feared them so much that they destroyed as much of Arlathan and the ancient Elves as they could (and this is from a group that loves to gain magical knowledge).

Sure the surviving tales are told from a pro-Dalish PoV, but it's clear that Arlathan was:

1. Long lived (ie stable)
2. Magically Powerful

That seem the ancient elves were able to coexist with magic and deal with it's dangers.  We know that Tevinter does (without saying that Tevinter is nice or should be copied).

-Polaris

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

[Torax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Torax wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Doesn't every living person, by virtue of being alive, have the capacity to harm others? Isn't that why we have laws and law enforcement? Look at where the Chantry controlled Circles have lead to: open rebellion against the Chantry and the Order of Templars because of what transpired at the Kirkwall Circle.

But every person alive doesn't have the power to control minds. Kill people with a thought. Or even just convince others to kill themselves. Create fire from nothing. Call in spirits to do you your dirty work. The list goes on and on. A man with a bow maybe able to shoot some people. But he can't alter reality with his mind. A mage can. Hence the fear some characters have. Even if one refuses to think that is possible or consider it in the realm of posibility.

Nor do the mages have the authority to command legions of templars, or royal armies under their banner, or even the power to declare an Exalted March against a nation. Different people in Thedas have different degrees of power and authority. After nearly a thousand years of the Chantry controlled Circles, we have an open rebellion by the mages.

Torax wrote...

It would make me wonder if the banter with Irving and Gregoir was more normal for a circle or not. While both conflicting they seemed more reasonable. Where as in Kirkwall it was the opposite. Be it Idol or Paranoia. She didn't seem to want to cooperate with anyone later on unless it suited her goals. Not Elthina and most definitely not Orsino. To a point so much is lost to us in character development cause we only really learn about her in Act 3. Besides rare references and a cameo more or less in Act 2.

It's what I miss from Origins. Even if the protagonist thought mages should be free, we encountered enough good templars to illustrate that they weren't an evil organization. From Lothering to the Alienage, we saw templars who wanted to help. We met mages who were varied and different, from the misguided Jowan to the Tevinter slavers, and a plethora of mages in the Circle Tower who simply wanted to live. DA2 was sorely lacking in balance in their depiction of the mages, especially in Act III.

We met some nice Templars. I admitt that they did lay blood mages a bit too much. Personally I think the flaw is how they wanted to have both Orsino and Meredith dead. If Orsino didn't turn into a monster at the last second? I'd have been more fine. I also think they shoud have found a way around the right of annulment. Having to throw that at the player meant having to show all sorts of blood mages over and over and over. Just to maybe get more to side with her I think. I don't agree with it. But I got over it by my 2nd play through. It should have been balanced but we can't change it. What is done is done.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Can I have the source for your claim that the city of Arlathan lived in "harmony" with magic? The only thing we have about Arlathan is a bunch of collected propaganda from the Dalish, claiming their ancient race was "oh so magnificent". I'm willing to bet that it was just as much of a mage tyranny as Tevinter is now.

They were a powerful empire across Thedas that took the full effort of the Imperium to finally conquer and the Magisters feared them so much that they destroyed as much of Arlathan and the ancient Elves as they could (and this is from a group that loves to gain magical knowledge).

Sure the surviving tales are told from a pro-Dalish PoV, but it's clear that Arlathan was:

1. Long lived (ie stable)
2. Magically Powerful

That seem the ancient elves were able to coexist with magic and deal with it's dangers.  We know that Tevinter does (without saying that Tevinter is nice or should be copied).

-Polaris

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

Uthenara seems to be real. In DA:O you fight an Uthenara Shade. Not Shade as in the Demon Shade, but I mean a spectral person.

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Wrong.  It's a fact.  The Dalish have existed in their current form for 700 years or so.  Most nations in Thedas can't boast of that!  Before then, the Kdm of the Dales was stable for three centuris prior to that and ceased to exist only because it was destroyed by an Exalted March of very questionable legality.

Keep on mind the elves of old were supposed to have much longer lifespan and --as side-effect-- their lives and decision-making was done at much slower pace than what's normal for humans. In other words, 100 years of elf lifestyle could easily be equivalent of just 10-20 years of human time, if that.

"Stable existence for 700 years" doesn't look as that much of a feat in these conditions.

Post Tevinter Slave elves don't seem to have a significanty (if any) longer lifespan than anyone else.  The Dalish claim that with enough isolation, their lifepands are slowly increasing but that may be Dalish propoganda.

-Polaris

Seemed like Zathrian's propaganda I think. His excuse for why he was living so long. I mean maybe the dalish live longer than city elves? Say 5-10 years? Maybe yes or not. But I doubt it. I think it was just his excuse why he was still walking around cause of the curse.

[AshenEndymion]

IanPolaris wrote...

Stable means stable. Until now the Chantry system as stable, but that system no longer exists. I have critized the circle system for many things, but stability wasn't one of them. However, it bought that stability be dehumanizing an entire class of people...people that have access to great power. It's called ticking off the dragon and eventially it comes back to burn you. It just took a while.

-Polaris

You assume that when the revolts end, and the mages are put down, that the system won't return exactly as it was before (if not more strict).

The system exists.  Just as the slave system exists during slave revolts.  Until the revolts are over with(or successful), will the system be changed...

[tmp7704]

IanPolaris wrote...

Post Tevinter Slave elves don't seem to have a significanty (if any) longer lifespan than anyone else. 

That's true, but we don't know if they weren't trying to lead lives at the old (or at least as slow as they could afford) pace while they remained in the isolation, given they were trying to restore their ways of old.

[Apollo Starflare]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I think it is best that you will be locked away. You may be dangeroeus to those from who you think will do something dangerous in the future. Or maybe better. You should be killed. That makes sure you will not do such a thing in the future. It's for your own good. One cannot be careful enough, don't you agree?

The thing is, the point isn't to 'lock them away'. It may have gone horribly wrong in some places, perhaps even as a whole, but judging by what we see of the rational people (on both sides) in the Circle the whole point is to provide a safe environment for both Mages and those they may (often unintentionally) harm. Circles are often focused on as prisons, particularly since DA2, but really they are centers of learning and calm for individuals born with a power too powerful to be easily trusted.

Add to this the fact that once you have passed your harrowing you are seemingly granted much more flexibility in regards to leaving the confines of the tower, and can pursue various exploits that take you elsewhere, and it becomes a much less demonstrous prospect.

Now, is the execution of it right as of the time of the games? No, I don't think so. The Chantry and the Templars are terribly flawed in the way they go about both presenting the Circle and dealing with Mages (particularly in certain places). However does that mean the idea of the Circle, of having to live a life differently to others for the good of both yourself and others, I do not think that concept is unsalvagable.

And as for being killed, bear in mind that under the actual rules the only Mages who are supposed to be killed are those possessed. Again, flawed in execution but it's certainly not supposed to be at a drop of a hat. Perhaps the worst aspect of the Circle as it stands is the whole thing surrounding the tranquil. It seems like it gets handed out too often and in a way that has only suceeded in angering other Mages and inciting rebellion (one of Anders' own primary motivators appears to be his opposition to the tranquil process in fact).

[AshenEndymion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Dales may have been a stable society, but the Chantry did not think so. The Dalish created unrest amongst the rest of Thedas, and sacked Val Royeaux.

You really believe that, don't you? From the Pro-Chanry side of the table? The Elves had been given a new homeland for helping Andraste, where they were working to rebuild everything. There is no reason that they would've sacked Val Royeaux when they were in no condition to.

Especially when the Chantry now calls anyone who wants to believe in a different religion or ideology a "heathen". It's "Believe in the Maker or we'll kill you and you'll live in damnation!" Sounds like a collective hive mind religion to me.

The Dales existed for 300 years before the elves revolted, and the Exaulted March was called for... History says that the Dalish elves sacked Val Royeux.  There is no evidence to conclude they did not.  But, then again, history is written by the winner to justify the deeds done.

[IanPolaris]

AshenEndemion wrote...
You assume that when the revolts end, and the mages are put down, that the system won't return exactly as it was before (if not more strict).

The system exists.  Just as the slave system exists during slave revolts.  Until the revolts are over with(or successful), will the system be changed...

Yes, I am assuming that and based on the forshadowing we are getting, I think it's a very safe assumption to think that the old system is over, finished, kapput.  Even IF the Templars do win in the end and the secular authorities don't intervene (which I think they will), the mages have now made it painfully clear that they would rather die than return to the old system.....and the Qunari are waiting it was magic that gives the Andrastian nations anything close to equal footing militarily with the Qunari.

The old system is finished.  It lasted as long as it did because (implicitly) the mages permitted it.  Those days are gone.

-Polaris

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Can I have the source for your claim that the city of Arlathan lived in "harmony" with magic? The only thing we have about Arlathan is a bunch of collected propaganda from the Dalish, claiming their ancient race was "oh so magnificent". I'm willing to bet that it was just as much of a mage tyranny as Tevinter is now.

They were a powerful empire across Thedas that took the full effort of the Imperium to finally conquer and the Magisters feared them so much that they destroyed as much of Arlathan and the ancient Elves as they could (and this is from a group that loves to gain magical knowledge).

Sure the surviving tales are told from a pro-Dalish PoV, but it's clear that Arlathan was:

1. Long lived (ie stable)
2. Magically Powerful

That seem the ancient elves were able to coexist with magic and deal with it's dangers.  We know that Tevinter does (without saying that Tevinter is nice or should be copied).

-Polaris

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

Uthenara seems to be real. In DA:O you fight an Uthenara Shade. Not Shade as in the Demon Shade, but I mean a spectral person.

There are some things that seemed to point to some ancient abilties and powers. For example Arcane Warriors was one of the ways the Elves fought against the Magisters. You learn it because an Elven Warrior locked his spirit in a shard to attempt to survive a heavy battle in one of their temples. There was a time when they seemed ot last forever. It could be true or not. But the supposed temples they used for that did have spirits there. if they were caused by Wars that existed there or not? We cannot say.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Can I have the source for your claim that the city of Arlathan lived in "harmony" with magic? The only thing we have about Arlathan is a bunch of collected propaganda from the Dalish, claiming their ancient race was "oh so magnificent". I'm willing to bet that it was just as much of a mage tyranny as Tevinter is now.

They were a powerful empire across Thedas that took the full effort of the Imperium to finally conquer and the Magisters feared them so much that they destroyed as much of Arlathan and the ancient Elves as they could (and this is from a group that loves to gain magical knowledge).

Sure the surviving tales are told from a pro-Dalish PoV, but it's clear that Arlathan was:

1. Long lived (ie stable)
2. Magically Powerful

That seem the ancient elves were able to coexist with magic and deal with it's dangers.  We know that Tevinter does (without saying that Tevinter is nice or should be copied).

-Polaris

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

Uthenara seems to be real. In DA:O you fight an Uthenara Shade. Not Shade as in the Demon Shade, but I mean a spectral person.

It could have been anything we fought there. It could be a spirit taking on the form of a person who once lived there, or it could be a "memory imprint" sort of like that Thaig in Awakening. I'm still not convinced about Elven immortality or even their magical nature yet. I find it more likely that their immortality stems from Blood Magic, kinda like Avernus, than being a natural occurance in their race (if they ever were immortal that is).

[tmp7704]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.

If they didn't, why would they freak out about the whole quickening thing?

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

It's mentioned that the Dalish believe everyone in Arlathan had the gift of magic, but that it was taken away with their immortality when they came into contact with humans.

[EmperorSahlertz]

tmp7704 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.

If they didn't, why would they freak out about the whole quickening thing?

THat is also just part of an old legend. So we don't know wether they did or not. The legends say so yes, but there could be any number of reasons for the Arlathan Elves to seclude themselves from Tevinter.

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

It's mentioned that the Dalish believe everyone in Arlathan had the gift of magic, but that it was taken away with their immortality when they came into contact with humans.

Another legend amongst the Dalish. With little proof to back it up.

The Dalish are no doubt fond of these legends as they make their own people look much more magnificent than what they are now.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 09 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[Torax]

LobselVith8 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We don't know wether they were long lived or not, or at least if they lived longer than teh current Dalish (which appears to live a few decades logner than their city counterparts). In any case, it may just be misenterpretation of ancient texts, or just lies. So far there is no reason to believe that the Elves lived longer in Arlathan than they do now.
And yes they were magically powerful, but did they coexist? I'm willing to bet that if you weren't a mage in Arlathan, you had no chance to ever achieve a rank in their society, just like Tevinter. And apparently even the Elves of Arlathan had a magical ritual to tranquilize, so yeah, they could deal with magic just fine it seems.

It's mentioned that the Dalish believe everyone in Arlathan had the gift of magic, but that it was taken away with their immortality when they came into contact with humans.

It's like the Elves got the ultimate screw over really. They had their Gods, were basically immortal and all used magic. Everything was great. Next thing you know. Their gods are gone. Humans are everywhere like cockroaches and they can't even do lightning fingers anymore. Oh and then all the people trying to kill them or make them slaves. Plus the marching on them again if they start doing well again.

Screw mages. I think the writers hate the Elves personally. The only character to get raped ever in a Dragon Age game was an Elf. Yet more evidence.

[LobselVith8]

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Dales existed for 300 years before the elves revolted, and the Exaulted March was called for... History says that the Dalish elves sacked Val Royeux.  There is no evidence to conclude they did not.  But, then again, history is written by the winner to justify the deeds done.

The dispute is over who started the war. The Chantry claims it started when the elves of the Dales attacked the town of Red Crossing, the elves claimed it started because they refused to convert and templars were sent into their nation when they kicked out their missionaries, and scholars believe it was due to territorial disputes since the Dales bordered Orlais. It happened too long ago for anyone to know for certain.

[TEWR]

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Dales may have been a stable society, but the Chantry did not think so. The Dalish created unrest amongst the rest of Thedas, and sacked Val Royeaux.

You really believe that, don't you? From the Pro-Chanry side of the table? The Elves had been given a new homeland for helping Andraste, where they were working to rebuild everything. There is no reason that they would've sacked Val Royeaux when they were in no condition to.

Especially when the Chantry now calls anyone who wants to believe in a different religion or ideology a "heathen". It's "Believe in the Maker or we'll kill you and you'll live in damnation!" Sounds like a collective hive mind religion to me.

The Dales existed for 300 years before the elves revolted, and the Exaulted March was called for... History says that the Dalish elves sacked Val Royeux.  There is no evidence to conclude they did not.  But, then again, history is written by the winner to justify the deeds done.

300 years isn't long enough to rebuild enough power to wage another war, especially against those people who rewarded your help with a portion of the land you once called your own. The bolded is true, and until otherwise stated all we can do is believe. unless we play that part of Thedas history ourselves or talk to someone who was witness to the events and managed to stay alive for centuries beyond centuries, no one can claim one or the other as fact.

That said, I still find it highly illogical for the Dalish Elves to have sacked, and subsequently started a war, on Val Royeaux.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There is no question wether or not the Dalish sacked Val Royaux. The only thing which is disputed is why the war started. The sacking of Val Royaux did not start the war, it was what started the Exalted March on the Dales. The war itself had been going on for some time before that. The Dales were an extremely powerful nation, especially for the "short amount" of time they had existed, it took the combined might of Thedas to bring them down after all.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 09 avril 2011 - 12:37 .

[tmp7704]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

THat is also just part of an old legend. So we don't know wether they did or not. The legends say so yes, but there could be any number of reasons for the Arlathan Elves to seclude themselves from Tevinter.

Well, this doesn't seem to be disputed by the very people who brought the fall to these ancient elves. The elves might've lost the records of their side of the story, but there's no reason to think Tevinter Imperium doesn't still have at least some of theirs. And they captured enough elves to determine from them more or less exactly why that seclusion had happened.

[Torax]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is no question wether or not the Dalish sacked Val Royaux. The only thing which is disputed is why the war started. The Dales were an extremely powerful nation, especially for the "short amount" of time they had existed.

We assume they were a really powerful nation. Maybe they didn't put up enough of a fight? Seems more likely they took the chance to flee. Even when they were conquered in Alrathan they did fight a lot and all over. But they eventually retreated to their main city. Outliers hunted after. The Dalish were much the same way. Odds are many left the Dales for survival. Not to be competley killed off and enslaved. Again.

[AshenEndymion]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

AshenEndemion wrote...

The Dales may have been a stable society, but the Chantry did not think so. The Dalish created unrest amongst the rest of Thedas, and sacked Val Royeaux.

You really believe that, don't you? From the Pro-Chanry side of the table? The Elves had been given a new homeland for helping Andraste, where they were working to rebuild everything. There is no reason that they would've sacked Val Royeaux when they were in no condition to.

Especially when the Chantry now calls anyone who wants to believe in a different religion or ideology a "heathen". It's "Believe in the Maker or we'll kill you and you'll live in damnation!" Sounds like a collective hive mind religion to me.

The Dales existed for 300 years before the elves revolted, and the Exaulted March was called for... History says that the Dalish elves sacked Val Royeux.  There is no evidence to conclude they did not.  But, then again, history is written by the winner to justify the deeds done.

300 years isn't long enough to rebuild enough power to wage another war, especially against those people who rewarded your help with a portion of the land you once called your own. The bolded is true, and until otherwise stated all we can do is believe. unless we play that part of Thedas history ourselves or talk to someone who was witness to the events and managed to stay alive for centuries beyond centuries, no one can claim one or the other as fact.

That said, I still find it highly illogical for the Dalish Elves to have sacked, and subsequently started a war, on Val Royeaux.

I disagree that 300 years is not long enough to rebuild enough power...  It's not likely, but it is possible.  Ferelden revolted after one Age.  Granted, it was only a revolt (which resulted in independence)... but it only took one Age to build enough power to do so.

There does seem to be agreement that Val Royeaux was sacked by the Dalish elves... But whether they started the war(and why, if they did), however, is questionable.

Modifié par AshenEndemion, 09 avril 2011 - 12:39 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Torax wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is no question wether or not the Dalish sacked Val Royaux. The only thing which is disputed is why the war started. The Dales were an extremely powerful nation, especially for the "short amount" of time they had existed.

We assume they were a really powerful nation. Maybe they didn't put up enough of a fight? Seems more likely they took the chance to flee. Even when they were conquered in Alrathan they did fight a lot and all over. But they eventually retreated to their main city. Outliers hunted after. The Dalish were much the same way. Odds are many left the Dales for survival. Not to be competley killed off and enslaved. Again.

They only had one city i Arlathan. There were  a bunch of small settlements too, but only one city. And the Dalish did sack Val Royaux, there is no question there. So they must have put up enough of a fight for the Exalted March to be called, otherwise Orlais would have dealt with the threat on their own.