1072 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Seriously. Tell the qunari you're a mage in that quest and they will straight-out attack you.

Respect, bro.

Sure because according to the Qun you are a bas who is not only a mage but an unchained mage and that means you are automatically a demon.  I never said the Qunari liked mages as a whole or that their system towards magic was a good one.  All I am saying is that they DO regard mages under the Qun as people.  It's just that the Qunari have a very alien notion of human rights for all people.....a Qunari would argue (I don' agree fwiw) that being chained to a role in the Qun is not slavery, but a basic human right that allows you certainty within the Qun.

-Polaris

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Addai67 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

actually no, the Qunari do respect mages for being a living embodiment of the Qun. They are constantly at war with themselves, having to fight their demons (literally and figuratively). When they die in service to the Qun, they are honored even more.

So no, Polaris is right on this one.

EDIT: However, I do not like what they do to the mages. But they do it out of necessity in their minds, not out of some idea that Qunari mages are not people.

And Andrastians think that magic serves man.  What's your point?

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Seriously. Tell the qunari you're a mage in that quest and they will straight-out attack you.

Respect, bro.

Sure because according to the Qun you are a bas who is not only a mage but an unchained mage and that means you are automatically a demon.  I never said the Qunari liked mages as a whole or that their system towards magic was a good one.  All I am saying is that they DO regard mages under the Qun as people.  It's just that the Qunari have a very alien notion of human rights for all people.....a Qunari would argue (I don' agree fwiw) that being chained to a role in the Qun is not slavery, but a basic human right that allows you certainty within the Qun.

-Polaris

No they do not see them as people. Sten refers to them as beasts or animals to be caged. Things not people. I have never seen anywhere that they are refered to as people equal to other qunari. The only thing the Arishok says is he is not surprised that it would submit to the Qun. That doesn't mean he would think of them any different than Sten did.

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Seriously. Tell the qunari you're a mage in that quest (Shepharding Wolves) and they will straight-out attack you.

Respect, bro.

You're a mage outside of the Qun. Of course they'll attack you. Silly Dragon, mages are for the Qun!


I respect the Qunari philosophy because they have and speak with unbridled wisdom. Does that mean they're the nicest people in Thedas?









Does that mean I condone some of what they do? See the image

[IanPolaris]

Addai67 wrote...
And Andrastians think that magic serves man.  What's your point?

Not really the same thing.  The Qunari, for all their faults, don't have a hypocitical bone in their body.  They have the Qun as written a long time ago by Koslun and they stick to it rigidly.  If the Qun says something, that's what is says, end of discussion.

The Chantry is hopelessly corrupt and disant from it's original Andrastian roots.  There is no evidence that Andraste had any negative feelings towards mages or magic and indeed it's strongly suspected by many that she was a mage (her regard of the magisters was far less generous of course).  Her commandment, "Magic should serve man not rule over him" has been horribly misinterpreted over the centuries.  Honestly in this and some oter commadments regarding magic, I think the Tevinters have it right.  Magic is supposed to serve the common good and the common man (although in Tevinter that's corrupted and twisted beyond all recognition as well).

-Polaris

[Addai]

IanPolaris wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Seriously. Tell the qunari you're a mage in that quest and they will straight-out attack you.

Respect, bro.

Sure because according to the Qun you are a bas who is not only a mage but an unchained mage and that means you are automatically a demon.  I never said the Qunari liked mages as a whole or that their system towards magic was a good one.  All I am saying is that they DO regard mages under the Qun as people.  It's just that the Qunari have a very alien notion of human rights for all people.....a Qunari would argue (I don' agree fwiw) that being chained to a role in the Qun is not slavery, but a basic human right that allows you certainty within the Qun.

-Polaris

They don't really regard anyone as a person because individuality has no meaning.  So for them, human rights are whatever the Qun dictates, and that's fine with you?  Then is your only beef with the Chantry that it allows inequality?  If you think that rigid equality is all that matters, well... anaan esaam Qun!  I think you ought to join up. 

You're also using the extremist Andrastians to define all Andrastians.  So, as I said above, bending the facts to suit your argument.  And you do really like to argue, bro.

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

actually no, the Qunari do respect mages for being a living embodiment of the Qun. They are constantly at war with themselves, having to fight their demons (literally and figuratively). When they die in service to the Qun, they are honored even more.

So no, Polaris is right on this one.

EDIT: However, I do not like what they do to the mages. But they do it out of necessity in their minds, not out of some idea that Qunari mages are not people.

And Andrastians think that magic serves man.  What's your point?

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Oh goodie people are putting words in my mouth and seeing what they want to see! I'm apparently the bad guy now! I'm just jumping for joy now!

*gives thumbs up while doing this face *


If you LISTEN to the Arishok, and actually look at how Qunari view mages, you will see that they respect them for being what they are. But according to the Qun, they must sew their mouths shut. They don't cut out their tongues though. They use some device that renders them unable to speak. Look at Saarebas when he talks to you.

I said I don't condone what they do to mages. But that doesn't mean they are not treated as people. Qunari call anyone Bas, be they Saarebas or unQunified people (Hawke). Bas may mean thing, but I believe the Qunari mean it in a different way than in a diminishing regard.

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

[IanPolaris]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Yes.  Contradictory?  No more than the Qunari themselves are.  If the Qunari truly regarded mages as beasts and non-people, then the Arishok would care less about not insulting Sarabas by saing the right choice was difficult.  The Quanari are not chatty people (to put it mildly) but the respect for the dead mage as a member of the Qun fulfilling his role was definately there.

To many are not seeing past the physical trappings to understand the moral difference.  The Qunari are presented as having an completely alien notion of human rights.  A qunari would say that ALL Qunari are chained and those chains allow the to be free withi their roles.  Sarabas is a part of that.

That's quite different from saying that a mage is a thing to be treated as a non-person with no regard to their role, feelings, or purpose in society.  Listen to Ketochan (sp?) if you let him go.  He has purpose which he volunatary accepts even if it means his death.  I don't see that in the circle system.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Addai67 wrote...

They don't really regard anyone as a person because individuality has no meaning.  So for them, human rights are whatever the Qun dictates, and that's fine with you?  Then is your only beef with the Chantry that it allows inequality?  If you think that rigid equality is all that matters, well... anaan esaam Qun!  I think you ought to join up. 

You're also using the extremist Andrastians to define all Andrastians.  So, as I said above, bending the facts to suit your argument.  And you do really like to argue, bro.

I'm not bending anything and I definately don't condone the Qun or what they do with mages, but mages are treated with respect for their role in the Qun and thus by their own standards (which applies to all Qunari) Sarabas are treated with respect and as human beings.  For the most part (see Cullen) the Chantry doesn't.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Indeed and when you fight him (in the duel), he says over and over that whether you realize it or not, nd whether you win or die, (by fighting him in front of the bas) you are serving the Qun by setting the example.

-Polaris

[TEWR]

Cullen kinda has a good reason to view mages so harshly though. He was scarred by torture. That doesn't mean his view is right. Anyone can see that. But his view isn't based off of a pure hatred. Especially given that he had a crush on Female Amell Mage Warden. Had Uldred not happened, he'd probably have been like Thrask.

[TEWR]

IanPolaris wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Indeed and when you fight him (in the duel), he says over and over that whether you realize it or not, nd whether you win or die, (by fighting him in front of the bas) you are serving the Qun by setting the example.

-Polaris

I didn't want to kill the Arishok though. I mean, I knew that was how I became Champion, but I liked the guy! I wanted to give him some cookies! Act 2 was done so well that I had more of a connection to the Arishok than I did to both Orsino and Meredith put together.

And the Arishok barely spoke.

EDIT: I would also like to say that Basvaarad (what Saarebas calls you if you defend him, and maybe hand him over.) means "thing worth following". Does that mean that by calling you something with Bas in the title, you are treated less as a person? As a human being?

Basalit-an most likely translates to "Thing worthy of respect" or "The thing I respect"

Both have Bas in the title yet show respect. So the argument of "They call you Bas!" is not a good argument. Bas to the Qunari most likely has a broad scope of definition, not just a way to belittle a person.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 avril 2011 - 07:36 .

[Torax]

IanPolaris wrote...

Torax wrote...
Call it what you want. But part of the name means "thing" and they do seem to consider them evil and not truly one of their kinds. Especially to the one holding it's leash.

edited to add. Sten refers to Mages as Beasts if I recall.

There seems to be a shift in the lore regarding that from DAO to DA2.  The Qunari do have a virulent hatred of magic and I don't codone what they do, but if you talk with the Arishok afte killing Arvaraad, you see the waves of respect that the Arishock is showing to Sarbaras for what he did.  He doesn't speak much of it because he doesn't want to insult Sarabas by insinuating that the right choice was difficult to make.  This is NOT the regard you show to someone you don't regard as a person.

-Polaris

While they are members of the Qun. The Qun also states that they are Animals and Beasts. You cannot change this or forget this part of it. They are creatures to be chained. A non leashed Saarebas is a beast to be slaughtered to Qunari. You are only bending it to suit your mind. But they do not see them as a normal person. The Qun still has a place for them yes. But it has a place for everything that exists. Beasts included.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Oh goodie people are putting words in my mouth and seeing what they want to see! I'm apparently the bad guy now! I'm just jumping for joy now!

*gives thumbs up while doing this face *


If you LISTEN to the Arishok, and actually look at how Qunari view mages, you will see that they respect them for being what they are. But according to the Qun, they must sew their mouths shut. They don't cut out their tongues though. They use some device that renders them unable to speak. Look at Saarebas when he talks to you.

I said I don't condone what they do to mages. But that doesn't mean they are not treated as people. Qunari call anyone Bas, be they Saarebas or unQunified people (Hawke). Bas may mean thing, but I believe the Qunari mean it in a different way than in a diminishing regard.

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Thank you for confirming that you believe the qunari treat their mages as people.

Can you now please confirm, so that I am not putting words into your mouth again, that you believe the Chantry does NOT treat mages as people?

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 avril 2011 - 07:57 .

[TEWR]

Torax wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Torax wrote...
Call it what you want. But part of the name means "thing" and they do seem to consider them evil and not truly one of their kinds. Especially to the one holding it's leash.

edited to add. Sten refers to Mages as Beasts if I recall.

There seems to be a shift in the lore regarding that from DAO to DA2.  The Qunari do have a virulent hatred of magic and I don't codone what they do, but if you talk with the Arishok afte killing Arvaraad, you see the waves of respect that the Arishock is showing to Sarbaras for what he did.  He doesn't speak much of it because he doesn't want to insult Sarabas by insinuating that the right choice was difficult to make.  This is NOT the regard you show to someone you don't regard as a person.

-Polaris

While they are members of the Qun. The Qun also states that they are Animals and Beasts. You cannot change this or forget this part of it. They are creatures to be chained. A non leashed Saarebas is a beast to be slaughtered to Qunari. You are only bending it to suit your mind. But they do not see them as a normal person. The Qun still has a place for them yes. But it has a place for everything that exists. Beasts included.

The Qunari would probably argue that everyone is an animal. And also, as the DA wiki states, with appropiate reference:

The qunari pity and honor the saarebas, for striving while under constant threat from within is truly selfless, the highest virtue of the Qun

http://dragonage.bio...eatures/qunari/

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Oh goodie people are putting words in my mouth and seeing what they want to see! I'm apparently the bad guy now! I'm just jumping for joy now!

*gives thumbs up while doing this face *


If you LISTEN to the Arishok, and actually look at how Qunari view mages, you will see that they respect them for being what they are. But according to the Qun, they must sew their mouths shut. They don't cut out their tongues though. They use some device that renders them unable to speak. Look at Saarebas when he talks to you.

I said I don't condone what they do to mages. But that doesn't mean they are not treated as people. Qunari call anyone Bas, be they Saarebas or unQunified people (Hawke). Bas may mean thing, but I believe the Qunari mean it in a different way than in a diminishing regard.

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Thank you for confirming that you believe the qunari treat their mages as people.

Can you now please confirm, so that I am not putting words into your mouth again, that you believe the Chantry does NOT treat mages as people?

Well let's see.... where to start (though I doubt I'll convince you. But hey, I'll try)

•  Anders states that Templars, who are part of the Chantry, beat and rape Mages. Now this was said long before the Act 2 quest dealing with Ser Alrik, so Ser Alrik is not the only one who does it. Now, were said raped mage to fight back or report it, what do you think would happen? Either, A) he/she would be made Tranquil or they'd believe the Templars over him/her. Or C) They'd investigate. But if Ser Alrik was doing this in the Kirkwall Chantry for a long time, they can't be very strict on the matter I would think.
• The Chantry Mother from Ostagar who tells Uldred to shut the **** up because they won't trust him. And this was prior to Uldred's insanity developing
• A good portion of Templars have a deep-seated paranoia of mages and despise them. Meredith as a prime example prior to her Idol worshipping. Though I suspect maybe before Hawke arrived in Kirkwall she was a bit more reasonable, but after the Ferelden Circle events she started slipping and tightening her grip.

that's all I got so far that actually came to mind right away. I haven't played DA games for a good while, so that's just what I remember.

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Torax wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Torax wrote...
Call it what you want. But part of the name means "thing" and they do seem to consider them evil and not truly one of their kinds. Especially to the one holding it's leash.

edited to add. Sten refers to Mages as Beasts if I recall.

There seems to be a shift in the lore regarding that from DAO to DA2.  The Qunari do have a virulent hatred of magic and I don't codone what they do, but if you talk with the Arishok afte killing Arvaraad, you see the waves of respect that the Arishock is showing to Sarbaras for what he did.  He doesn't speak much of it because he doesn't want to insult Sarabas by insinuating that the right choice was difficult to make.  This is NOT the regard you show to someone you don't regard as a person.

-Polaris

While they are members of the Qun. The Qun also states that they are Animals and Beasts. You cannot change this or forget this part of it. They are creatures to be chained. A non leashed Saarebas is a beast to be slaughtered to Qunari. You are only bending it to suit your mind. But they do not see them as a normal person. The Qun still has a place for them yes. But it has a place for everything that exists. Beasts included.

The Qunari would probably argue that everyone is an animal. And also, as the DA wiki states, with appropiate reference:

The qunari pity and honor the saarebas, for striving while under constant threat from within is truly selfless, the highest virtue of the Qun

http://dragonage.bio...eatures/qunari/

While the codex says one thing. The retaliation of Avaraad when hearing you are a mage more reflects how Sten saw the mages. Beasts not to be trusted. Whose words can speak evil and so on. Dressing it up and trying to be diplomatic with it doesn't change how others even in the Qunari view magic that is basically not plot armor for the player and their companions. Reading one way into things while also ignoring the outlook of some other Qunari who don't seem to reflect this sympathy for them. Saarebas are not allowed to speak. That alone shows a great amount of their fear/hate for them. If a Saarebas as a member of the Qun speaks? It is killed right there it appears. Avaarad had to kill you cause it spoke to you.

[TEWR]

If a Saarebas as a member of the Qun speaks? It is killed right there it appears. Avaarad had to kill you cause it spoke to you.

I'd like to know where you pulled that from, if not from your ass (don't worry, I'm not being a dick now. I generally speak like this ). We have seen no evidence of such a thing, especially since Saarebas could only grunt and gurgle until after Arvaarad was dead.

You tell him you're a mage. He's not supposed to just go "Oh ok that's cool. We're just gonna Qunari our way outta here. You keep being your mage-y self". If he was going to kill you because you spoke, you'd be dead as soon as you said hi.

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

If a Saarebas as a member of the Qun speaks? It is killed right there it appears. Avaarad had to kill you cause it spoke to you.

I'd like to know where you pulled that from, if not from your ass (don't worry, I'm not being a dick now. I generally speak like this ). We have seen no evidence of such a thing, especially since Saarebas could only grunt and gurgle until after Arvaarad was dead.

You tell him you're a mage. He's not supposed to just go "Oh ok that's cool. We're just gonna Qunari our way outta here. You keep being your mage-y self". If he was going to kill you because you spoke, you'd be dead as soon as you said hi.

Actually if you give Saarebas to Avaarad it will speak to you before Arvaarad kills him. Then Avaarad says how he has to kill you cause it said words to you.

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 08:21 .

[TEWR]

then I stand corrected and apologize. I'd like to see a video of it though if possible.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Oh goodie people are putting words in my mouth and seeing what they want to see! I'm apparently the bad guy now! I'm just jumping for joy now!

*gives thumbs up while doing this face *


If you LISTEN to the Arishok, and actually look at how Qunari view mages, you will see that they respect them for being what they are. But according to the Qun, they must sew their mouths shut. They don't cut out their tongues though. They use some device that renders them unable to speak. Look at Saarebas when he talks to you.

I said I don't condone what they do to mages. But that doesn't mean they are not treated as people. Qunari call anyone Bas, be they Saarebas or unQunified people (Hawke). Bas may mean thing, but I believe the Qunari mean it in a different way than in a diminishing regard.

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Thank you for confirming that you believe the qunari treat their mages as people.

Can you now please confirm, so that I am not putting words into your mouth again, that you believe the Chantry does NOT treat mages as people?

Well let's see.... where to start (though I doubt I'll convince you. But hey, I'll try)

•  Anders states that Templars, who are part of the Chantry, beat and rape Mages. Now this was said long before the Act 2 quest dealing with Ser Alrik, so Ser Alrik is not the only one who does it. Now, were said raped mage to fight back or report it, what do you think would happen? Either, A) he/she would be made Tranquil or they'd believe the Templars over him/her. Or C) They'd investigate. But if Ser Alrik was doing this in the Kirkwall Chantry for a long time, they can't be very strict on the matter I would think.
• The Chantry Mother from Ostagar who tells Uldred to shut the **** up because they won't trust him. And this was prior to Uldred's insanity developing
• A good portion of Templars have a deep-seated paranoia of mages and despise them. Meredith as a prime example prior to her Idol worshipping. Though I suspect maybe before Hawke arrived in Kirkwall she was a bit more reasonable, but after the Ferelden Circle events she started slipping and tightening her grip.

that's all I got so far that actually came to mind right away. I haven't played DA games for a good while, so that's just what I remember.

Convince me of what? I'm asking for your opinion, not a list of things that happened in game.

You believe the Qunari treat their mages as people.

Do you believe the Chantry treats their mages as people?

I'd make an educated guess based on your language above, but since you haven't stated your opinion I don't want to encourage another happy dance.

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

His point is that he believes Andrastians don't treat mages like people by locking them in a tower, but the qunari DO treat them like people by sewing their mouths shut, cutting their tongues out and putting them on leashes. Oh, and by giving them respect and basic human rights, which for some reason no Circle in all of Thedas' Andrastian nations apparently does...

Oh goodie people are putting words in my mouth and seeing what they want to see! I'm apparently the bad guy now! I'm just jumping for joy now!

*gives thumbs up while doing this face *


If you LISTEN to the Arishok, and actually look at how Qunari view mages, you will see that they respect them for being what they are. But according to the Qun, they must sew their mouths shut. They don't cut out their tongues though. They use some device that renders them unable to speak. Look at Saarebas when he talks to you.

I said I don't condone what they do to mages. But that doesn't mean they are not treated as people. Qunari call anyone Bas, be they Saarebas or unQunified people (Hawke). Bas may mean thing, but I believe the Qunari mean it in a different way than in a diminishing regard.

Plus, the Arishok can call you Basalit-an (or something to that effect. don't know the spelling). You alone are worthy of respect out of all the fat dasrathi in Kirkwall.

I'm gonna be a Qunari convert I bet.

Thank you for confirming that you believe the qunari treat their mages as people.

Can you now please confirm, so that I am not putting words into your mouth again, that you believe the Chantry does NOT treat mages as people?

Well let's see.... where to start (though I doubt I'll convince you. But hey, I'll try)

•  Anders states that Templars, who are part of the Chantry, beat and rape Mages. Now this was said long before the Act 2 quest dealing with Ser Alrik, so Ser Alrik is not the only one who does it. Now, were said raped mage to fight back or report it, what do you think would happen? Either, A) he/she would be made Tranquil or they'd believe the Templars over him/her. Or C) They'd investigate. But if Ser Alrik was doing this in the Kirkwall Chantry for a long time, they can't be very strict on the matter I would think.
  
• The Chantry Mother from Ostagar who tells Uldred to shut the **** up because they won't trust him. And this was prior to Uldred's insanity developing
  
• A good portion of Templars have a deep-seated paranoia of mages and despise them. Meredith as a prime example prior to her Idol worshipping. Though I suspect maybe before Hawke arrived in Kirkwall she was a bit more reasonable, but after the Ferelden Circle events she started slipping and tightening her grip.

that's all I got so far that actually came to mind right away. I haven't played DA games for a good while, so that's just what I remember.

Convince me of what? I'm asking for your opinion, not a list of things that happened in game.

You believe the Qunari treat their mages as people.

Do you believe the Chantry treats their mages as people?

I'd make an educated guess based on your language above, but since you haven't stated your opinion I don't want to encourage another happy dance.

Ok, I lol'd at your last sentence. I believe certain Templar command posts and certain Chantry people do not treat the mages as people. Some citizens of Thedas don't given the eavesdropping of the gossips in various cities/villages when they talk about mages

I also believe the current system of monitoring mages does not work in treating them as people, despite the claims that they do.

I believe that the Qunari, while doing some very abhorrent things to the mages to ensure security, afterwards treat them as people unless the Qun requires that the Qunari act. This is a group bound by the philosophy of Koslun, so it's understandable they will act within those rules or whatever. Understandable, not something to be condoned.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

then I stand corrected and apologize. I'd like to see a video of it though if possible.

Here.

Edit: To me it doesn't look like you are attacked because Ketojan spoke to you (which would be really odd considering everyone in the area, including the qunari, also heard him speak, and it was the qunari who allowed him to speak) but because you were in the presence of an unleashed saarebas and there was no way to tell if he'd corrupted you, as he himself was corrupted by being outside his karataam.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 avril 2011 - 08:38 .

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

then I stand corrected and apologize. I'd like to see a video of it though if possible.

In particular quotes.

"Saarebas is his role and his name, as you understand it. It is the accusation and acknowledgement of being a mage."

"The power that he has, that all Saarebas have, draws from chaos and demons. They can never be in control."

"We leash Saarebas because they are dangerous and contagious. Not even your templars fully grasp that threat."

Saarebas says "Basvaarad, you led well. I thank your intent. Panahedon, as you find the Qun."

He is killed by Avaarad who then says,

"You should be honored by this action, Basra. It is his last" 

Followed by

"He lost his lead-- the risk of corruption was certain. But he has owned his death by honoring you. He knows the Qun once more. As will you."

You can reply diplomatically.

"You got what you wanted. Why try to fight me now?"

Which he then says

"An uncollared Saarebas spoke to you. You were already exposed. but there's no way to know what demon may have ridden his words. Killing you is demanded. But the respect of Saarebas has granted honor. Be grateful."

Whole banter starts here after turning him.

Modifié par Torax, 10 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[TEWR]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

then I stand corrected and apologize. I'd like to see a video of it though if possible.

Here.

Edit: To me it doesn't look like you are attacked because Ketojan spoke to you (which would be really odd considering everyone in the area, including the qunari, also heard him speak, and it was the qunari who allowed him to speak) but because you were in the presence of an unleashed saarebas and there was no way to tell if he'd corrupted you, as he himself was corrupted by being outside his karataam.

thanks for the link. I agree with you. Arvaarad says "There is no way to know what demon may have ridden his words" almost as if a corrupted Saarebas casted a spell secretly while he was talking to Hawke, and in turn placed a demon inside of him. I think that's what you meant anyway.