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[Dave666]

 I've been reading through some threads about what Sovereign tells us on Vermire and something just occured to me.

Sovereign tells us: "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays; our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."

The technology in question is The Mass Relays which is Element Zero based.

Is it illogical to assume that Element Zero is important to the Reapers?

The Reapers want us to develop along the paths they desire and also it seems want biological matter as evidenced in ME:2.

What happens to Organics that are exposed to Element Zero (and survive)?  They develop Biotics.

Can anyone name a race where every single member is a Biotic?  Hint...Asari.

So if the Reapers want us to use Element Zero and one of the byproducts of it is Biotics, why do they want Humans who have barely had any exposure to it?

Surely the Reapers would want Biotics, or why provide technology that produces them?  Surely the Reapers had alternatives avaliable to them?

To me, it would have made more sense if it had been Asari Colonies that were being abducted.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Dave666, 07 avril 2011 - 11:56 .

[AdmiralCheez]

The asari gene pool is too shallow for the Reapers' liking.

But yes, I think Eezo will be a Big Deal ™ in ME3.  Don't know how, but it will be.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 avril 2011 - 11:58 .

[Steel Hurtin]

Yeah, according to some NPC's in the game, human genes are the most diverse and adaptable, or something along those lines.

[OraVelnoria87]

From what I gathered, the Human-Reaper was just a side project while they made their way over to the galaxy. TIM guesses they chose humans because of Shepard making them take notice.

They just want space faring societies developing on the predetermined paths so it takes centuries to wipe them out instead of millenia. Trying to find technologically advanced planets not near the relays, or not connected to the Citadel in any way would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Modifié par OraVelnoria87, 08 avril 2011 - 12:02 .

[Dave666]

Hey, I'll admit that the idea isn't very well fleshed out, but you see what I mean.

The thing is though that if ME:2 had been about the abduction of Asari Colonies, would Harby have still said: Asari, reliance upon alien species shows genetic weakness?

I mean that doesn't actually make sense.

If anything the fact that they are (so far) the only race that can reproduce using other species is anything BUT a weakness.

If only one Human survives then Humanity is dead (without cloning).

If only one Asari survives then eventually they could rebuild the species.

[dleo95]

humans are full of goodies

[Il Divo]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Within the context of Mass Effect just makes no sense. What have humans done to make them so important? Was it the Battle of the Citadel? We did nothing special, we were just at the right place at the right time.

Except that to our knowledge Shepard is the first organic to have ever stopped the cycle from occurring, culminating in the death of an actual Reaper. That's not something any of the other alien species can say.  

[Babli]

Humans are special.

[Infinite Legend_]

Steel Hurtin wrote...

Yeah, according to some NPC's in the game, human genes are the most diverse and adaptable, or something along those lines.

I still laugh every time a hear that.

[Il Divo]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Shepad was just in the right place at the right time too. He didn't do it alone either. I seem to remember him being supported by several aliens, aliens who apparently aren't as slick.

It's dumb.

Human's aren't special, they're just new and thus aren't as settled or comfortable with the Council way of life.

Once again, we were merely in the right place at the right time.

Unfortunately, that's not how Saren (or the Reapers) see it. You can claim that an Asari, a Krogan, whatever could have potentially stopped Sovereign. Except that it wasn't any other race: it was a human who actually did the deed, and whether or not other aliens were involved, they were led by Shepard.
 
Or are you implying that Liara or Kaidan had a larger role in the events of Mass Effect than Shepard himself?

[emmanuelsieyes]

Element zero isn't necessarily Reaper tech. The Reapers are just the best at using it. Eezo has a lot of potential, but what really matters is the engineering know-how to turn a couple tons of eezo into a mass relay. No race in current ME history has come close to being able to construct a mass relay.

Element zero is a lot like silicon. With the right equipment, silicon can be processed to build the semiconductor chips that modern society runs on. However, without that know-how, it's not particularly useful.

[Dave666]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Element zero isn't necessarily Reaper tech. The Reapers are just the best at using it. Eezo has a lot of potential, but what really matters is the engineering know-how to turn a couple tons of eezo into a mass relay. No race in current ME history has come close to being able to construct a mass relay.

Element zero is a lot like silicon. With the right equipment, silicon can be processed to build the semiconductor chips that modern society runs on. However, without that know-how, it's not particularly useful.

Element Zero isn't Reaper Tech agreed, its a (fictional) element on the Periodic Table.  However the Tech that the Reapers left for us to find and use is based upon Element Zero.  Remove Element Zero and the Tech won't work.

Btw, the Protheans were in the begining stages of building relays (The Conduit), had the Reapers not invaded for another few hundred years and the Protheans would likely have been building them.

I viewed Element Zero more like a cross between something like Silicon which as you said can be used in many ways and a Radioactive Isotope (It must give out some form of radiation or why does exposure lead to cancers or Biotic abilities?)

Modifié par Dave666, 08 avril 2011 - 12:46 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

There's a common Sci-Fi trope that may apply here - humans are curious. Like, super curious. It's one of or best/worst qualities. You give a human a mystery, they're gonna try to solve it. And if they get halfway in and someone tells them to not solve it, they're just going to get mad and solve it anyway. We have an entire genre of film based on this ideal! Star Trek, Red Dwarf, Babylon 5, they all have episodes that revolve around a mystery that it is clearly not advisable to try to solve, but people solve it anyway, because they are people.

It's this relentless curiosity that made Shepard the one to defeat Saren. He made the mistake of screwing with the species that wouldn't just kill him for screwing with them, they would find out why he was screwing with them, then kill him. Also, the race for whom curiosity overwhelms even protocol.

If you don't like that.. then alternately, we're just particularly suited in some way we don't understand. It's put forth that the collectors bought people from all races, and took them back to their base. It could be that they ran tests on all of them, and for some reason humans worked best.

It's like if you're trying to figure out what species is most resistant to a particular disease, and you test dogs, cats, ducks, and cows. If cows turn out to be the most resistent to disease, that doesn't make them the "best," just the best for whatever you're planning on doing, expirimentally.

[Inquisitor Recon]

The reapers must have determined humans taste the best when put into one of their giant blenders. Simple as that.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Aliens seem just as curious. Recall that salarian investigating the keepers.

Salarians are pretty curious, yes. But Mordin tells you that they're also trained to value protocol over curiosity, when it comes to serious or dangerous secrets. It's in their blood to pry after scientific knowledge, and minor secrets, but to defer when a secret may be terrible - that's why they love science, but also why none of Mordin's family ever asked him about his work in Special Tasks.

I'm not saying curiosity is definitely "it," it may be some other variable we're unaware of. It's just one possible guess.

[Golden Owl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I recall something being said about it on the Collector ship, during one of the battles Harbringer makes a comment about human aggressiveness and the Reapers want to harness that behavior to the Reapers advantage....something along those lines anyway. The Turians are mentioned also, if you take Garrus with you and he gets hurt, Harbringer comments that the Turians are a primitive race and so the Reapers have no interest in them....asfor the other aggressive race, Krogans, I don't take Grunt with me, so wouldn't know if comments are made there.

[Dave666]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

There's a common Sci-Fi trope that may apply here - humans are curious. Like, super curious. It's one of or best/worst qualities. You give a human a mystery, they're gonna try to solve it. And if they get halfway in and someone tells them to not solve it, they're just going to get mad and solve it anyway. We have an entire genre of film based on this ideal! Star Trek, Red Dwarf, Babylon 5, they all have episodes that revolve around a mystery that it is clearly not advisable to try to solve, but people solve it anyway, because they are people.

It's this relentless curiosity that made Shepard the one to defeat Saren. He made the mistake of screwing with the species that wouldn't just kill him for screwing with them, they would find out why he was screwing with them, then kill him. Also, the race for whom curiosity overwhelms even protocol.

If you don't like that.. then alternately, we're just particularly suited in some way we don't understand. It's put forth that the collectors bought people from all races, and took them back to their base. It could be that they ran tests on all of them, and for some reason humans worked best.

It's like if you're trying to figure out what species is most resistant to a particular disease, and you test dogs, cats, ducks, and cows. If cows turn out to be the most resistent to disease, that doesn't make them the "best," just the best for whatever you're planning on doing, expirimentally.

Well thought out post CGG and I'm certainly not going to say that you're wrong.

When I posted this thread it was simply to see what people thought.  Maybe I'd missed something obvious, or not so obvious.  It just popped into my head an I though, thats odd...

I mean Harby's comment on Asari reliance on aliens being a weaknes was complete nonsense.  They don't HAVE to rely on other species or the species would have become extinct before they even discovered space flight.  Yes, Asari-Asari pairing runs the risk of the Ardat Yakshi gene showing up, but its bloody rare.  As I said they're the only race that we know of that can reproduce without needing an opposite member of their own species (Racnai not withstanding), which is anything but a weakness.

The Sovereign line just made me think about the Relays and Eezo which of course lead to Biotics which lead to the Asari.  If the Reapers want us using the Relays then unless they have no other means of travelling they also want us using Eezo.

I'm kinda rambling right now so I'll stop and see if I can wrangle some coherence out of my thoughts, outlook: Not so good. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


But Mordin tells you that they're also trained to value protocol over curiosity, when it comes to serious or dangerous secrets. It's in their blood to pry after scientific knowledge, and minor secrets, but to defer when a secret may be terrible - that's why they love science, but also why none of Mordin's family ever asked him about his work in Special Tasks.

Humans have identical behaviors.

Sometimes, sure. But they also have a tendency to defy them. Mordin implies that a Salarian would be highly unlikely to do the same, and there's no evidence (yet) that the Salarians have been curious enough to truly investigate Saren and Sovereign further. If they had been, they would have learned more about the Reapers themselves. As a race, they don't care, they aren't curious about it, from everything we've seen. Individuals may be, but the race as a whole is not.

Whatever the case, even if humans are only the second most curious race in the galaxy, and the Reapers simply didn't study enough Salarians to figure that out... Shepard was the one who was so curious, and so determined that she managed to beat Sovereign. I won't agree that anyone could have done it. It had to be a team from a race that values curiosity, determination, and strength.

Of course, as I keep saying, this is just a guess. I'm perfectly willing to admit it's likely some variable that we're not aware of. But if I was trying to figure out what aliens would be the best to use for my machine intelligence building, the one who managed to see through my evil schemes would be a top candidate.

[Dave666]

Golden Owl wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I recall something being said about it on the Collector ship, during one of the battles Harbringer makes a comment about human aggressiveness and the Reapers want to harness that behavior to the Reapers advantage....something along those lines anyway. The Turians are mentioned also, if you take Garrus with you and he gets hurt, Harbringer comments that the Turians are a primitive race and so the Reapers have no interest in them....asfor the other aggressive race, Krogans, I don't take Grunt with me, so wouldn't know if comments are made there.

Depends on which Human Squaddies you have with you.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Harbinger_%28Collector%29/Battle_Quotes#Quotes_about_Harbinger

Wish I knew how to rename links, it would be so much easier.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Dave666 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I recall something being said about it on the Collector ship, during one of the battles Harbringer makes a comment about human aggressiveness and the Reapers want to harness that behavior to the Reapers advantage....something along those lines anyway. The Turians are mentioned also, if you take Garrus with you and he gets hurt, Harbringer comments that the Turians are a primitive race and so the Reapers have no interest in them....asfor the other aggressive race, Krogans, I don't take Grunt with me, so wouldn't know if comments are made there.

Depends on which Human Squaddies you have with you.

masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Harbinger_%28Collector%29/Battle_Quotes#Quotes_about_Harbinger

Wish I knew how to rename links, it would be so much easier.

Wow, nice references!

And I was about to post something to this effect in response to your last post... but I'll just throw it in here. Another fantasy trope is that humans are generalists - we're a little good at magic, a little good at fighting, a little good at stealh, but not great at anything.

We're the only race that has the inquisitiveness of the salarians, the agression of the Turians, the biotic power of the Asari. I mean, we have weaker versions of all of those things, but we've got some aspects of everything. Krogans were also pretty good, but we messed them up, so they aren't useful anymore. We're their best bet...

Though it would be hilarious if, failing to make a Human reaper, they tried to make a Batarian one.

Edit: also, to make links link to words, highlight the section you want to make a link, then click on the little icon that looks like a planet with a chain. It'll give you a field to paste the URL in.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 08 avril 2011 - 01:20 .